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Lance's Head, the Thread

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I think it's like possession (if you want to go to wonderland). Since you're so good at possession, imagine you have a wonderland body (Lance) and posses that body. See if it makes any sense and let me know how it goes. I kinda do that. Expect muted feelings, like a whisper that you can still hear, but barely. If it's taking a lot of effort, you start focusing on effort and not results, so relax and go slow.

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I know this is long (seems to be par the course for me) but I'm trying to put in as much detail as I can to provide insight into Reilyn and my odd situation and the places we are getting stuck. Apparently I started writing this idly, picking my thoughts apart and hanging them up here at 3am and it's almost 6:30am now in what felt like an hour. Bah. Stupid writing time warp. Sorry that the order of events if a bit jumbled but tangent thoughts wanted to interject that I felt ought to be explained and maybe stuff int he past we have been unclear about explained.

 

While trying to find some clues to switching, we were reading Oguigi's old possession guide and trying possession exercises. Sans mentioned that there is no wasted effort, that things done toward possession and improving that experience carry over to switching. Early on, the guide says a tulpa should work to cut their senses off from their wonderland body and feel the sense of the real world body. Reilyn just said "I don't understand". I asked about what and she said that as far as she can remember, when we started doing tulpa stuff she didn't really "feel" any body and by the time we had got far enough along that we broke through the vocal barrier she always felt everything I felt. She said she spent all her time pretty much between my eyes just like me, feeling and tasting and whatever else I did, except as a passenger along for the ride. She said as far as she knew, she was awake when I was awake and not when I was not.

 

We had suspected from a while back that whatever progress we had defied the normal pace or expectations of development but we just chalked it up to that time all those years ago sort of "priming" her and just took it for granted as "oh, ok this is us now". I think I was starting to piece together repercussions of what that meant, considering our frustrating lack of growth in certain areas, but today her comment hit my thought stream at just the right moment, if you will, and I realized we were lacking the broad foundation (or any real foundation at all) that we were supposed to have. I mean, just referring to myself, I try and try to visualize and form scenes and images in my mind and see Reilyn in my mind (it's easier to imagine her because of how invested we are in each other) but as I have mentioned, everything is typically very faint, blurred, indistinct, abstract, whatever you want to call it. I just assume I'm getting a tiny bit better every day (and maybe I am) but the pace at which Reilyn basically woke up and popped out to be herself very much gave us a distorted view of this whole process. Even Angry Bear mentioned, to paraphrase "You two did full-body possession, the most difficult thing. Congratulations", and my thought was "What? I don't understand. That wasn't hard, that was an accident and we didn't know how to undo it, we thought we were stuck".

 

Even now our mind voices are the same volume (though hers is higher pitch) and I feel the head pressure in what's almost grown to the entire front half of my brain that even if she is silent I know she is intently reading these words and thinking stuff. We go through a little symbolic thing maybe to reinforce that one of us is officially in charge at the moment or for the day (that was fun) but I've never been able to cut off my senses from my body and she says she has never really had senses in any kind of mind body, wonderland body, construct body. If I'm not concentrating on us being in some kind of imaginary space, we just aren't. Even in that space neither of us really feels anything, we basically (uhh.. how do I put this) just have to go "oh, we are here and I'm supposed to have a heartbeat or something and warm feeling" so we try to see the movement, feel the pressure, experience the heat.. but it's all terribly artificial (in hindsight) in the same way that if I "see" a tree in there it's not real, I know that, it's blurry and I may see some branches but if I try to concentrate too hard on it to "sharpen it up" I loose focus and everything falls apart. We mentioned before that when Reilyn was in charge of setting up a scene she could visualize things better but as a result it was far more obvious that everything was artificial. I don't really know what else to say about it except we are both living in the same head, the same body and neither of us can really seem to separate from it. Move senses around? Transfer consciousness? Possess X instead of Y? We just don't get it. We hear the words, we know what they mean, we read guides and basically understand the concepts but it's difficult to relate to. I ask Reilyn to help if she can but she basically says "But what do you really want me to do? 'Do a thing, do it now' really doesn't help. 'Push you out?' How??"

 

I think she has always been so driven, so focused on "getting out" and interacting with me (and all you) while I have always been so crummy at visualizing and focusing any deeper inward than my own surface thoughts (in other words just 'outward' by default). Both of us are pushing outward rather than inward. When we have to do exercises and things that point us inward and have to use wonderland bodies, we both just sort of shrug and go along as best we can, trying to ignore how fake it is. We can briefly have fun in imagined scenes or hug or whatever but to be honest, excluding a couple freak moments where it was more clear and felt more real, it's pretty unsatisfying. We figure we will get better gradually over time and if it's the best we can do for now it's ok but I know it frustrates me and I assume it frustrates her (she won't say, probably doesn't want me to worry).

 

All of her actions on here have served to help her grow, develop, learn more about herself as a person (and how to quickly google up memes and Pinkie Pie pictures apparently). Reading everyone's progress reports is fun and I'm starting to see a few things here and there we decide we want to try too, but by large, none of this has helped either of us noticeably improve visualization, focus or externalizing senses. Nothing we have tried "clicks", it just seems like taking our pick from a dozen different methods of sitting still and slooowly refining a skill I have apparently neglected most of my life. I'm equally good/bad at imagining things around me with eyes open as eyes closed. As we end up doing a chunk of our daily practice at work and I have to at least pretend to pay attention, plus driving I try to "see" her in my peripheral vision in the passenger's seat. Eyes closed stuff is for home exclusively.

 

That odd trance state I hit sometimes when I write was a backdoor around all my stubborn defenses, walls and doubt that Reilyn jumped through the moment she could; she just bypassed all the trouble and we got to cheat basically. As a result it pretty much just.. Put us in a weird "At all times I'm in the pilot seat, shes in the co-pilot seat and either one of us can pretty much do whatever with the body whenever." We both have things we get passionate about randomly through the day and at those moments either she or I rudely shove aside the other and fire off what we want to and afterwords pause a moment and go "Oh, sorry.. right, today is your day, my bad" and whomever the co-pilot is takes their hands off the wheel again.

 

So tonight's experience was little different from last night, except perhaps more frustrating. We were going to try the whole idea of going on a quest of self-discovery and I told her we could both do it; I was interested in chipping away at the mask of myself and seeing what kind of truth was inside and would need her in case it was.. ugly. She seemed a little shaken, and said "But this is me.. Isn't it? What if I'm really supposed to be different? I like me. Why mess with a good thing?" in the end we agreed the goal wasn't to change her but that she might learn some new things about herself and our bond would deepen so there was really nothing to loose. So.. Another hour of meditating, affirmations and such to announce things to the brain, stating our intentions, getting things ready.. Eventually we got enough of the control room visualized and I was trying to do what AngryBear said and make another me and try to move into that or occupy that or something. When I was done we would go out the only door in the room, leading to where ever she wanted it to go and we were going to experiment with the idea of slowing down our perception of time in case the adventure took a lot longer than whatever was left of the hour (why not, right? It sounded fun to try).

 

Aaaand after what felt like a long time of just trying, awkwardly staring at and picturing any number of things going out of me and into imaginary me, I was frustrated and done. Reilyn idly watched and tried to cheer me on every now and then, her twirling her hair with a finger the only thing giving away her boredom. Maybe another night. I checked my timer afterwords and only a minute and a half was left of the hour. Great. Yay. I have absolutely no idea what I was doing nor how to try and "possess" myself or move myself around.

 

Proceed to eyebo. We read up the possession guide again because switching seemed a wash for now. I wasted a lot of time because I was still frustrated and kept basically not letting go, fighting against her accidentally. for her part she was complaining that she had already spent two days as me, why did we have to sit and try to make fingers twitch? Eventually I calmed down and she started complaining that she had no idea how to transfer senses around from a wonderland body she was supposed to have and a lot of the guide made no sense. Turns out we are both pretty stubborn. Eventually I told her just think of it as what everyone else has to go through so give it a try. She told me to quit fighting her for control and go do something else so I worked at trying to picture the control room again and see me get out of the pilot seat and go in the corner trying to sculpt and work on my imaginary body, hoping improving my clarity of it would help my connection to it or something. She popped into the control room on her own and we stubbornly tried to make things happen, her grunting in frustration in the co-pilots seat and me floating in the corner busy working on kid version of me.

 

She got some fingers to twitch and a hand to crudely hop around a little and said "These controls suck, I have a better idea, Heh" and poofed a VR headset and some kind of VR gloves onto her. I stopped to watch and found my body slapping myself in the face with both hands a few times "Sorry. Nya, people do this? This is kind of hard", she had to say. I turned back to my task and she spun around in the chair (which I didn't know could spin) and said "Oooh, heey do what I'm doing there! Use gloves and a headset and stuff and try remote controlling your kid. Boy. Wonderland.. Wonderboy." (apparently my kid form is "Wonderboy" now ;P ) Seemed like a neat idea so I gave it a shot. Sure enough it seemed to help. I got behind Wonderboy and turned it all on. When I moved the body's physical hands, his hands mirrored it. When I moved my physical head, his moved.

 

I added a waist and feet trackers to the imaginary set and stood, walked around a little physically, my movements being mirrored. All the while though, just crummy visualized images behind darkness. I told her I was still feeling the physical body's hands and everything so how was I supposed to "open my eyes and see" or "open my eyes as Wonderboy, but not my physical body". She said "Meh, just try to see both at once I guess. That's a start." She told me to wait and got in front of him and bent down where I couldn't see her (I was still basically behind Wonderboy) and said "Ok, do it. Tell me what you see". I opened my physical eyes and tried to imagine what he would be seeing, as seen using the VR headset and I saw her making faces, only stopping long enough to say "Oh, his eyes opened". I spent the rest of the 35 minutes or so just turning around in place and trying to see both our fields of vision at the same time. It was a baby step but it was still a step so I'll take it. She was coaching me and pointing out things like "There's a wall right there, oh he just face planted into it, be careful".

 

We could have kept going but called it a night with interesting insights and lots to ponder, all-in-all. We sure could use any advice or stuff to experiment with. If all this is normal and this is the actual pace we ought to have expected from the beginning, that would be nice to know too.

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Sounds like some good progress. We haven't tried much possession but I think it's just going to be easier the more you get used to possession as a whole. Heard people who've been tulpamancing for a long time that can instantly switch on command. I think you two should just keep doing it till you find the 'trigger' for it. You'll get the hang of it soon. ;D

 

I can relate to the bad imagination. I see everything blurry, fuzzy, inconsistent but it works better when there's things you're familiar with. Maybe real life 'quests' could work better? I dunno, thanks for sharing anyway! Motivational and helpful, we'll try experimenting with VR symbolism too. (Matsuri said: "Sounds like fun! I want to have a VR headset." I believe she's really curious about discovering things, she even got me to enjoy actually taking my time in assassin's creed)

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You guys made a lot of progress in an extremely short period of time! Don't feel bad if you get frustrated with an area of weakness, you're not behind schedule or anything like that. For the longest time, Cat was stressed about me possessing her and it wasn't until after she calmed down and took on a new perspective we actually achieved possession.

 

For a good while, Cat had a period of time where she couldn't stare at a visualized image because she wasn't used to staring at her own mental images. For you, I think it would be better if you stopped thinking of visualization as "seeing" and start thinking of it as "describing". You once mentioned you were a decent writer, so go ahead and simply write as much as you can about Reilyn. Write about what her hair should look like, her face, her clothes, but don't forget to include her personality, how she moves, her size and build, etc. Then, try and kind of "remember" her. You can leave your brain to fill in all of the gaps for you, and hopefully you will have a better mental image of what she should look like.

 

If you get frustrated too much, walk away from it and focus on other stuff. Maybe you simply need more time to get used to Reilyn's presence. I don't think it's worth it to worry about switching right now, but I think working on Reilyn's independence and possession would be more rewarding.


I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.

My other head-mates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogChat | Yay!

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Good progress. The idea of a VR setup seems to have worked, so if you liked it, continue.

 

Re: Speed. i have a good example that you can relate to:

[Hidden]

So when i step into my supersonic time traveling fighter jet and go to the paleolithic era, i have a real hard time seeing the golden eagles at mach 8, at mach 7, no problem, so going slower is fine i guess, with practice, you'll get to mach 8 some day.

[/hidden]

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I could never do a PR this long.


The name's Bryan! In system Nobody(In order of the rainbow): 

Sean, Esper, Blinky, Compact, Janey, Kyle, Gwen'd, Gwen, Emily, Rollin, Waynin, Trease, Layy, Justin, Chloe, and Zachery.

I guess I have to talk... I practice Tulpamancy and Psionics, PM me for stuff related to that. I love Puyo Puyo(Look it up!). I exist and I like it like that. PM me for a random essay topic, or somethin'.

 

https://my.cbox.ws/TulpaDotInfo

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Lance says to see it as working on one paragraph at a time or even one sentence at a time and if more new things pop up, start a new one. Before you know it you too have a wall of text that only a few awesome people read. XD

 

He says it's more a matter of releasing control and the letting words just pour out instead of trying to stubbornly force it. That sounds kinda like peeing, now that I think about it. There you go, writing a lot of stuff is like peeing. :P

 

Short one today (I insisted), since I just want to mention an observation and even we aren't sure what it means but we are working on it. Ok, so currently I can't really move my senses/perception around and he can't either. We are both just glued to the body. We can imagine that we are looking at stuff and going places, etc but we are always body stuck. 

 

Out of nowhere he asks me if I can see the things he visualizes, I guess because we mentioned we can't read each other's minds of anything, isn't visualizing just personal thoughts? And I can. I told him that. He asked me to do something, just to remind him that he can see the stuff I visualize too. Of course I put my hands over his eyes, and hey, he saw that. This is at work so it's all open-eyed but he saw my hands and the view in front of him at once. I know because (other than him confirming it) I saw it too. So.. Same body, same senses, different minds visualizing things before the same eyes, we both get to see it, yay. We both know we had precedence for seeing each other's visualizations but he likes to experiment so, confirmed.

 

So then he goes "Hmmmm" and asks how often I try to surprise him and make visualizations appear before him. I honestly tell him I haven't really done that, just jumped into his own visualized scenes with my own stuff because, well, I guess I never really thought about it. He could hear me clearly, and feel my excitement and stuff so why play pretend, I figured. He wonders if he has to be "ready" and "prepared" to visualize stuff in order to be able to see things I visualize, like has the "I can see stuff" button been pressed in our brain? When he wants to create things and visualize to me he is obviously prepared so that doesn't count.. He is trying to do some little imposing work today, and he superimposes over top Wonderboy (yes that's what I'm calling him, deal with it *pokes Lance*) and tries to make the imaginary body mirror his movements. Obviously the whole time he has the visualize button pressed and I have been hopping around the scene to mess with him.

 

I said I was gonna cut this short and I am. I'm just going to try surprising him throughout the day when I think his guard is down till he is happy with this little experiment. What does anyone think of any of this? He is wondering if there is some button or something that has to be actively turned on for us to be receptive to imposed senses, but I guess wonderland stuff would count too. Maybe he wants to figure out if there is a way to jam it in the "on" position and if that would make things easier for us? Lol.

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Symbolism is optional. I suppose you could try the button but I think pure training is the best way. Visualization takes time so just do your best and improve. It's like learning a new instrument. The more you do your best, the better you get.

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We are working on it XD

 

I didn't mean some symbolic button, I was just comparing it to a... state of attention. Like, being ready to catch a ball someone is throwing at you. Has any host ever noticed their tulpas surprising them with some visual thing without them expecting it or being ready for it? As in, not looking for it, not mentally prepared to see something then.. poof. Something. I mean, a lot (most?) of us can already do that verbally, right? Just blurt out things the host hears without them preparing, being ready for it or otherwise being prompted? I dunno how else to explain it. Instead of the host going "oh hey tulpa, how are you?" and then pausing, and listening to hear "fine" or something, the tulpa just out of the blue is like "get up! your alarm didn't go off, arrrgh! you're late!" or something. That, except visual?

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Cassidy has a little "window" that's like a camera in his wonderland. It's purposefully got a very short depth (most things are out of focus) to make it easier to visualize. Cassidy controls what I see in that window, I don't. That way, he can use hand gestures and facial expressions, the same way he talks without my intervention.

-J



"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth."

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