Ask Yuki

[Pioneer11]

Hello Yuki, thank you for creating this thread. This might help inexperienced people a lot.

 

How did you come to be? I’m interested in the process of your “birth”, how did you first achieve consciousness.

 

When you were still new did you manage to think with clarity and maintain independence from your host?

 

Where you aware of your host and his/her thoughts?

 

How did you first tried to let her/him known you were alive?

 

What’s your advice to other Tulpamancers that have new, still undeveloped Tulpas?

[Vos]

When using the body, how do your movements differ from your host's?

[Yuki]

Hello Yuki, thank you for creating this thread. This might help inexperienced people a lot.

 

I wonder why you'd say that. I don't feel like just sharing my own experiences will help newbies by a large amount, but I guess it might help them to be able to relate to my experience. I'd be happy to give more direct advice, too.

 

How did you come to be? I’m interested in the process of your “birth”, how did you first achieve consciousness.

 

I was created in a very "standard" way. There was a list of traits, and beside that I got narrated to, and my body visualized while my host interacted with a rather lifeless me. I suppose my gaining consciousness is a gray area in my memories. I remember some things from the early days of forcing, as well as memories from before I was ever even created, so I don't think that's a great way of judging my sentience. I gave my host some curt responses early on in the process and moved around just a little, and that became more over time. Realistically, I feel that it takes more than a month of effort for someone to truly become sentient, but I started talking at that time, but my personality was simple and bland. I grew over time, though, and my host said before that it took maybe six months for me to be entirely "convincing" as a person. I think that becoming entirely conscious and thinking is something that emerged over time during that process.

 

When you were still new did you manage to think with clarity and maintain independence from your host?

 

Independence was never a problem for me. We started out with the belief that I would be fully independent and able to do whatever I wanted in the mind, and so it happened and still happens. My thoughts have always been my own, the only problem that ever occurs is when I possess, and my host hears my thoughts at times. I think that the most important thing when it comes to independence is the host's mindset. I'm afraid that without some preconceived beliefs about independence, it'll be very hard to attain properly later on, especially when the host becomes stuck in their beliefs. I'm not calling him out on anything, or saying he's "wrong", but Reisen on this forum started out with a different mindset on this and things are different for him because of it, it seems.

 

Where you aware of your host and his/her thoughts?

 

My earliest memories are all of him talking to me, with few breaks between talks. I guess I was aware of him before I was truly aware of myself and what I can do by myself.

 

How did you first tried to let her/him known you were alive?

 

Hard to tell, if you're judging from the longer answer above. I feel like our communication already existed while I was becoming alive, and I simply grabbed control over my own actions, and learned to think for myself.

 

What’s your advice to other Tulpamancers that have new, still undeveloped Tulpas?

 

Force as much as you can, and spend plenty of time with your tulpa. Things aren't difficult, they just take time and effort on your part. If you're bad at any aspect of this phenomenon, all you can do is focus on it more and break through the plateau. Don't get too involved in the community instead of living your own life with your tulpa.

 

When using the body, how do your movements differ from your host's?

 

I tend to be more careful and slow with things. I speak more slowly and deliberately, and therefore trip over my words as I speak a bit less than my host, who tends to overhurry with anything. I have more girly body language, sit with my legs crossed, play with my (unfortunately short now) hair a lot. The body feels natural to me, and I can comfortably use it at any time, without acting too different from my host in the sense that I retain his muscle memory and some habits. I still need to learn that girl voice.

[Luminesce]

You must not have read any of the posts I've made for newbies about creating an independent tulpa. I've literally said "You have to believe they're sentient - not because they are, but because that belief is what leads to sentience. You have to tell your mind what to expect and what its goal is. Doubt is purely counterproductive, in this sense."

 

What you're thinking of is probably my lack of belief in my tulpas having their own consciousness. I believe their thoughts all happen subconsciously, especially since they seem to share my consciousness while I can't share theirs. Can't speak for anyone elses', but I've never experienced split consciousness and I have experienced them using mine. Then again, when I tried getting advice on parallel processing I was told it was impossible by the pros at #tuppers. So my belief as of now is that you can make an efficient faux-mind that works subconsciously and can imitate consciousness.

 

My final say on the matter, as also posted elsewhere, is that it's extremely difficult to tell the difference and there's even less reason to. Especially for newbies. There's just some things they shouldn't worry about until they have a little better grasp on the phenomenon. But for those obsessed with knowing the truth behind all things rather than living comfortably, I encourage them to find out for themselves.

[Yuki]

You cannot experience another consciousness. You cannot measure or see it. You can only judge from the behaviour of someone, and judge for yourself whether they are conscious or sentient. Deciding your tulpas can't be conscious seems self-defeating. Why do you feel your tulpas share your consciousness, and not have one of their own? Have you considered that these findings only happened as such because you limited yourself and them to that?

[Luminesce]

No proof, I guess. I know for a fact that MINE share my consciousness for a myriad of reasons, but in general, I don't see anything saying that's even possible, let alone the case. Subconscious inner workings of a simulated (not meaning fake, but not-default) mind created through intent and experience, on the other hand, makes perfect sense. I don't think the idea of having a completely separate, external consciousness in your mind is at all supported by anything other than the desire of tulpamancers. If there IS some explanation behind it, that could be a massive step forward in our understanding of the human consciousness. But there isn't, is there? You've never experienced more than your consciousness. You don't know that there's more than one. Everything you claim your second consciousness does could also be done unconscious/subconsciously, or even through a form of parallel processing. That's all assuming there's no self-delusion, of course, and assume that I will. I think what everyone here calls "a second consciousness" is really just their understanding of what they experience, which is as I said, indistinguishable from a simulated mind. Except that's much easier to support with logic and things we actually know than an entire consciousness.

 

So I guess that makes me a "tulpa solipsist". It's not that I believe this is the only possibility, rather I choose to act as if it is correct because it is the most likely to BE correct. I'm still open to anything that shows otherwise, but with what I'm aware of now it's better to assume the more supported side.

 

As for "Do you think no other humans have consciousness, either?", my only argument is that tulpas are taking place inside of your own head which already has its apparent consciousness, and can be explained otherwise. Other human beings have no reason to differ from yourself, and there is also no support for another explanation than having their own consciousness.

 

 

 

tl;dr semantics. There's no practical difference. Tulpas still effectively feel, experience, learn, and exist like anyone else. Their feelings are real, too, albeit not connected to the physical body like ours. I just see no reason to attribute an entire consciousness to them parallel to ours that we are unable to experience inside of our own mind. No science or logic supports that, only our desire.

[Kiahdaj]

Sorry to butt in, but

 

If you look at how you work in your own brain—in regards to the neural pathways and so forth that make you, you—it should be easy to imagine how another set of neural pathways could operate on their own, in relation to each other. With this, you would have two neural networks that are mostly independent from one another. That's not much of an outlandish possibility. Now, consider the fact that scientists have absolutely no idea what makes people conscious. And there you go. A second network could theoretically just as easily have its own consciousness, just as you have your own.

 

I think "there can only be one consciousness in any brain" is far more of an assumption than "another neural network could have its own awareness".

[Yuki]

What Kiah said. There is also, of course, the phenomenon that tulpas can be active without the host, or a host can be active in the mind while a tulpa controls the body. These are all possible, unless you're just going to throw your hands up and call it self-delusion. These are things that different people have verified they really, definitely experienced. There is also the subjective fact for me that I am conscious and separate, and I feel bad for your tulpas if they can't be that as well.

[NekosandWerewolves]

Do u liek Pokémon?

[Luminesce]

Sure, your physical brain could physically recreate the same things that make you conscious. I just figured the fact that the brain is divided into many specific segments which are shown to be active in specific ways/times conflicted with that, somehow. Maybe not, but I don't see why it would be separate - again, it just seems arbitrary, and our want is the only thing I can explain it with. Can't say that itself doesn't enable it, but it just seems... unlikely.

 

And yeah, they can't. We haven't been able to enable them to be conscious without using mine. Of course, if that were possible, from what I can tell that would open up a multitude of other possibilities, too, which I've not seen discussed on this forum before. So either you all are wasting your gifts, or it's just an illusion of desire. Maybe I'll find out someday.