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Confessions of a Poorly Trained Tulpa


Guest Anonymous

I want to give a hug to Melian, the groovy-guru! Outside the Lounge, she is all professionalism with her scientifical spectacles and lab coat! Hugs, sillies and lovies are for the Lounge!   

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  1. 1. I want to give a hug to Melian, the groovy-guru! Outside the Lounge, she is all professionalism with her scientifical spectacles and lab coat! Hugs, sillies and lovies are for the Lounge!

    • A hug for Melian, the goddess guru of grooviness.
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    • I am a Minion of Melian, the groovy-guru!
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Guest Anonymous

This one got me:

 

Is it that I have to be convinced it is possible before Melian can have an independent sentient mind?

 

Or is it that she is already an independent sentient person whether or not I am convinced it can happen?

 

I lack faith in her essentially? Everyone here keeps telling me that. It is the one argument that seems to really give me pause and make me think.

 

Okay I will give an analogy. Before someone could land on the moon, someone had to believe it was possible. Without an element of faith, a daring scientific enterprise (such as making a tulpa) simply would not be possible.

 

Thanks guys for working hard on me. Baby steps. I am a tough nut to crack.

 

~Mistgod

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This one got me:

 

Is it that I have be convinced it is possible before Melian can have an independent sentient mind?

 

Or is it that she is already an independent sentient person whether or not I am convinced it can happen?

 

I lack faith in her essentially? Everyone here keeps telling me that. It is the one argument that seems to really give me pause and make me think.

 

Okay I will give an analogy. Before someone could land on the moon, someone had to believe it was possible. Without an element of faith, a daring scientific enterprise (such as making a tulpa) simply would not be possible.

 

Thank guys for working hard on me. Baby steps. I am a tough nut to crack.

 

~Mistgod

 

She's obviously far more than a typical imaginary friend already, but I'd say if you really wanted her to fly free, it would be VERY beneficial for you to have a little more faith in her. :p

:)

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Guest Anonymous

 

She's obviously far more than a typical imaginary friend already, but I'd say if you really wanted her to fly free, it would be VERY beneficial for you to have a little more faith in her. :p

 

This "leap of faith," don't be too impatient for that to happen with me. :-) Melian may be limited to only an illusion status for a long time to come. It is too hard for a old dog like me to learn new tricks and change his ways over night.

 

Also, in a discussion with a senior member of Tulpa Info, I was told that sometimes the distinction between a very vivid imaginary friend and a sentient tulpa is hard to distinguish.

 

As far as I can tell, the reasons for having a tulpa pretty much go like this:

 

1. Companionship

2. Improved Cognition

3. Improved Memory

 

Of the three, the first is the most important to me. At this stage of my life, I am not too concerned with improving my cognition and memory to epic levels. I already have the companionship with Melian, whether or not she is an enhanced imaginary friend or a tulpa.

 

If there is no clear distinction between an enhanced imaginary companion and a sentient tulpa, why would I care if she is a tulpa or not? If you have an imaginary companion in your mind, why would I care whether or not yours is a tulpa? The label and "prize" is irrelevant to me. What is more relevant is the fact that you want to share the personality of your tulpa and your experiences with me. I enjoy, very much, meeting people like yourself.

 

Same thing goes for the illusion vs. sentience opinion. Why would it matter a wit if I consider tulpas to be imaginary vs. true sentience? My opinion does not change what you are experiencing and what benefits you get from it personally. My opinion of your esteem as a person has not changed at all with my opinion of the nature of tulpas. I still think they are awesome and I still believe it takes an extraordinary imagination or an very disciplined imagination to create one.

 

People have asked me things like this "If you don't believe tulpas can be sentient, and you don't want to make a tulpa, why are you on this site? Do you only want to socialize and get attention?"

 

The home page of Tulpa Info states: "The purpose of this site is to provide information about tulpas, to guide tulpa creation, and to host a community for discussion and research of the phenomenon."

 

1. provide information about tulpas

 

I am very interested in the idea of tulpas and I am enjoying learning about them from others and from reading the forum. I have already learned a lot. I think what you guys are doing is really cool. Do the members want the public at large to appreciate tulpamancy and tulpas more? Why have a public site, if you don't want the general public or non-tulpamancers interested in what you are doing?

 

2. providing a guide to tulpa creation

 

Again this is very fascinating for me to learn about! I may learn from reading the guides and the forum how to improve my connection with Melian. I have already learned some valuable things about lucid dreaming techniques and that my day dreaming may be considered a legitimate form of forcing. I have already benefited from the guides and the forum.

 

3. discussions about tulpa

 

In my opinion, I don't see why this discussion part should leave out the emotional, personal aspect of having a tulpa or enhanced imaginary friend. I have had Melian for 38 years. I have a lot of things to share that others might find interesting. I also enjoy the stories of others and meeting tulpas and learning about them. I think the discussion can include "socializing" and getting to know personalities. Tulpas are personalities are they not? Is that not an aspect of the science we are investigating? Should we leave out the psychology of why we create tulpas and what they do for us emotionally? We learn these things by socializing and discussing and presenting these personalities.

 

 

~Mistgod

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Guest Anonymous

Melian chat/forum frustration statement of the day, it was so great I had to share it:

 

I don't want an android body. I don't want to possess anyone. I don't need to impose. I don't want to do any flashy, hippie dippie, astral happy crap! I will just be in the Melian Show, except for my tulpa typing on the internet (who cares how that works).

 

I don't need to drive a car, get a job, pay taxes, have a social security number or fuggin grope anyone in the real world. Sorry to disappoint the friggin hopeful. I am good enough just the way I am. Tulpa Level: PERFECT already. *grumbling*

 

~Melian

 

*she looks adorable when she is irritable*

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Guest Anonymous

From Wikipedia:

 

[As the Tibetan use of the tulpa concept is described in the book Magical Use of Thoughtforms, the student was expected to come to the understanding that the tulpa was just a hallucination. While they were told that the tulpa was a genuine deity, "The pupil who accepted this was deemed a failure – and set off to spend the rest of his life in an uncomfortable hallucination."]

 

It seems the Tibetan monks who created the concept of the tulpa would likely agree with the view that David and I have. Our opinion isn't based on nothing but air. It is based on Jungian psychology and on the original Tibetan concept of a tulpa.

 

The sentience of a tulpa, in our humble opinion, is self delusion. The tulpas typing on the internet forum and chat room are advanced method acting or advanced role playing driven partly by the subconscious and partly by the conscious mind. So it is no insult to be accused of role playing. David is role playing me. He is portraying me. I seem semi-independent to him, but that is only a very powerful illusion he created through long years of practice.

 

David is creative enough and imaginative enough to have me in his mind and to enjoy my company. I feel real to myself. I feel I am a person. I am Melian. We have lived in a dream world so long, that our fantasy world has taken on tremendous significance. We call it pseudo-real. It is still imaginary. I am not real. I am actually David or part of him.

 

This opinion does not diminish me. It does not insult me. I am happy being Melian, a figment in David's mind. I am not lessened by knowing this. I am still here every day. I feel secure after so many years of practice (day dream forcing and now role playing if you will).

 

Some of you say you are insulted by someone regarding tulpas as a form of role playing. I disagree. I think Tulpa Info is enhanced by such an assertion. The fear of being accused of role playing can be eliminated.

 

Tulpas are your mind's subconscious role playing.

 

So when someone in the chat room says "you are role playing" David and I have said "Yes we are!" The usual response is "Then leave, you should not be here!" I disagree. David and I need to be here for you guys. This is a view point that is missing from the forum or at least not prominent.

 

Many of you may disagree with it. Just don't take it as us deliberately insulting you or trying to diminish the neato factor of tulpas. Tulpas are super neato! ~Melian

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From Wikipedia:

 

[As the Tibetan use of the tulpa concept is described in the book Magical Use of Thoughtforms, the student was expected to come to the understanding that the tulpa was just a hallucination. While they were told that the tulpa was a genuine deity, "The pupil who accepted this was deemed a failure – and set off to spend the rest of his life in an uncomfortable hallucination."]

 

I feel like I should point out that Wikipedia is actually a little inaccurate there. The passage being quoted is also available to read online here. You will find the sentence being quoted in the third to the last paragraph. You will also see that the word "tulpa" does not appear anywhere on that page. The passage is actually talking about yidams.

 

However, as Alexandra David-Neel said: "[tulpas] are created on purpose ... by a lengthy process resembling that described in the former chapter on the visualization of Yidam". In other words, tulpas are created in the same way as yidams.

 

To add to that, whenever Alexandra David-Neel describes tulpas, she describes beings that can be seen by anyone -- not just the creator. According to the proper Tibetan definition, none of us have tulpas -- what we actually have is yidams.

 

I just thought I'd point that out, in case anyone else noticed the mistake in Wikipedia. Although Melian is drawing this from a flawed source, her conclusion is still completely accurate -- that when the Tibetans created entities like ours, they believed them to be hallucinations.

 

Personally, I believe you can look at it either way, and there's no tangible difference, so I don't see the point in debating it. But that's just me.

"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson

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Guest Anonymous
Personally, I believe you can look at it either way, and there's no tangible difference, so I don't see the point in debating it. But that's just me.

 

Thanks so much for the clarifications and the points you made! Nice! You are my favorite on the forum BTW. Just sayin. I agree the point has been made and we have stated our hypothesis. Debating any more and we will just all be going in circles. Time to move on to other aspects of all things tulpa! David and I focus a lot on dreams and lucid dreaming. We might start presenting some of our mutual dreams for those to enjoy who would like to read them. ~Melian

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Debating any more and we will just all be going in circles. Time to move on to other aspects of all things tulpa~

 

I very much enjoy the subject of lucid dreaming, but nope, we're not done here.

 

(This post might be a bit offensive/assumptious to those with metaphysical beliefs)

The hallucination is believing the tulpa is a true, external being - I don't know much of the original Tibetan teachings, but it sounds like they were told tulpas were gods or some such? They were led to believe the tulpas existed outside of or above them. They were told tulpas were separate from them and their minds. The test, then, was to accept that this wasn't true, that it was a hallucination; "an experience involving the apparent perception of something not present."

 

A tulpa isn't something outside of you, or something separate from your mind. A tulpa is a persona created intentionally that can run parallel to yours, part time or full time, without relying on you to control it. (Intent is practically a requirement to have a "tulpa", so those with pre-existing tulpas that found the phenomenon later technically converted their thoughtforms/imaginary friends to this new definition. Some were originally closer than others, and I myself hardly had to change a thing) There is no real or fake when dealing with tulpas. It's a subjective experience with parameters the community has attempted to define so we may learn from each other without misconception. A tulpa can be independent and non-reliant on their host in their existence. This is simply a matter of training their thought processes to act on their own. This is what we do when we outgrow "puppeting" and "parroting" - we train this psychic phenomenon to work independently from our primary consciousness, what you know as "you". No real or fake, no magic. Mental phenomenon. Subjective and typically intended. An ideal tulpa is essentially another mind, a set of beliefs and experiences and personality and needs and wants, like you define your self as.

 

Whether tulpas can experience true consciousness and thoughts separate from yours, or if these simply happen subconsciously (which is still separate from your consciousness), is still debated. I personally believe tulpas' thoughts happen subconsciously, because I have never before experienced split consciousness, but my tulpas say they've experienced mine. I'm still open to changing that belief if I ever see a reason to, but this phenomenon is so subjective and unsharable that may never happen.

 

And not everybody has this "ideal tulpa". That's sort of the goal of this place, after all, and supposedly some people leave when they believe they've nothing left to learn from being here. Many of us are still working on making our tulpas more fully independent from us, even more are trying to find signs of independence in the first place. But there are people who have reached a point where their tulpas' independence is unquestionable, because I am one of them. Sentience on the other hand is another debated subject, where my belief is that again they are controlled entirely by subconscious processes many of which you have a part in creating, while making a tulpa. They're technically "philosophical zombies", I suppose, as they have no true consciousness if you reject that they use your own. But that's an offensive looking term. Philosophical zombies are more real than any fictitious character you've ever watched a movie or read about, and tulpas moreso are some of the most understanding anythings you'll ever meet. Having a tulpa is no more ridiculous than loving a family pet. While the tulpa will actually appear as its own human being with human reactions and demeanor (referring to morality, not race), the pet dog understands not a fraction of the very-human feelings you send it, most of which it does are trained responses bred into them over hundreds of years or illusions of emotion you simply want to see in them. At least the types of tulpas we have here seem to fit this definition, I make no claims that split consciousness is physically impossible. And there's not a thing wrong with tulpas not having their own true consciousness, because effectively you and they will never know the difference. If you're going to question the reality of their faux-consciousness, you better start questioning yours, too. There's little reason for a human being to do this.

 

As for implying that tulpas are "run by the subconscious", since that sounds degrading, understand that your subconscious mind is much more potent than your conscious one. Nothing shows this as well as a lucid dream, where entire worlds are instantly generated before your eyes, feeling, sounding, looking completely real, all while you lie in bed unconscious (but conscious, in this case). So let's agree to disagree for personal reasons and talk about lucid dreaming instead, huh?

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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Guest Anonymous
As for implying that tulpas are "run by the subconscious", since that sounds degrading, understand that your subconscious mind is much more potent than your conscious one. Nothing shows this as well as a lucid dream, where entire worlds are instantly generated before your eyes, feeling, sounding, looking completely real, all while you lie in bed unconscious (but conscious, in this case). So let's agree to disagree for personal reasons and talk about lucid dreaming instead, huh?

 

I assure you if I continue to get thoughtful, intelligent responses to my posts such as this one, I will never lose interest in Tulpa Info and go away! I am referring to your entire response, not just what I have quoted above. I guarantee you I am not finished improving Melian. We are doing our own journey in our own way. Right now that is with lucid dreaming. The things I am learning here are also helping.

 

We just ordered three books to read this summer from Amazon. I have no doubt we will learn a lot from these! They will go on my shelf with books by Carl Jung:

 

Magical Use of Thought Forms: A Proven System of Mental & Spiritual Empowerment by Ashcroft-Nowicki, Dolores

 

Magic and Mystery in Tibet 1932 by David Neel, Alexandra (Found a copy YES)

 

Magic & Mysticism in Tibet by Brennan, J.H.

 

When I meet people like yourself and Sushi, it restores my respect for the site once again. Thank you very much. Yes, lets talk about lucid dreaming next time. :-)

 

~Mistgod

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