Confessions of a Poorly Trained Tulpa

[Guest Anonymous]

God speed David,god speed.

[Good luck you glorious bastard. (;-;)/]~Cassandra

 

LOL

 

What does that mean? "Good luck you're going to need it" it sounded like! LOL I hope you got the final edited version of my last post. I made it much kinder and I need to start backing off stating the same opinion over and over and over again. I think you guys got how I feel now.

 

Time for lucid dreaming practice reports! :-) ~Mistgod

[Guest Anonymous]

WHAT I WANT FROM TULPA INFO

 

A couple people have openly wondered why I want to be a part of this community if I don't believe my tulpa (thoughtform, yidam, enhanced imaginary companion, inner muse ...whatever) can become truly sentient. The assumption is being made that I have no interest in learning or improving. Not so!

 

1. I have need for the companionship, entertainment, emotional support and inspiration that Melian provides for me. I DO want to improve my connection to Melian, make her more "present" in my mind and in my lucid dreams. I want to strengthen her "voice" in my mind. I have already done these things since Melian has been online even before Tulpa Info and the guides. However, some members here have been very helpful.

 

2. I am not interested at this time in using Melian to improve my cognition or memory. If that happens, great, but I am not feeling as needy for those.

 

3. I have no desire what-so-ever for Melian to possess me and take over my body. Why would we want that? I have no desire to do imposition to manifest Melian into the physical world where I can perceive with my physical senses. She has been just fine being only in the mind space for 38 years and is perfectly content there. I am not a believer in the idea of greater tulpa "levels." Melian is great already and doesn't need to measure up on some sort of levels hierarchy. She isn't going for a super tulpa trophy or to prove anything to anyone and neither am I.

 

4. I don't believe Melian has rights as a separate sentient person. That is a ridiculous concept. I don't believe I am insulting or degrading "tulpa kind" by stating such things. Again, in my view, that is a ridiculous concept as well. I don't care if your tulpa is offended by my forum posts, he or she will get over it.

 

5. I want to learn more about thoughtforms in general and I have learned a lot from the members of this community and they have pointed out some great resources for me! I am reading!

 

6. Alexandria David Neel ROCKS and I want to read her biography and her books.

 

7. I want to share Melian's personality with you guys (and her art), I want to share our reports on lucid dreaming and I want to meet the tulpas and the tulpamancers. ~Mistgod

 

(You guys are far out groovy cool!) ~Melian

[sushi]

Magic & Mysticism in Tibet by Brennan, J.H.

 

Let me know how that one is. I haven't read it myself, but I like the sound of it.

 

When I meet people like yourself and Sushi, it restores my respect for the site once again.

 

Well thank you. :)

 

WHAT I WANT FROM TULPA INFO

 

A couple people have openly wondered why I want to be a part of this community if I don't believe my tulpa (thoughtform, yidam, enhanced imaginary companion, inner muse ...whatever) can become truly sentient. The assumption is being made that I have no interest in learning or improving. Not so!

 

Everyone is looking for something different out of this. For me, it started with imposition, but I know lots of people have no interest in imposition, or might even be scared of the concept.

 

5. I want to learn more about thoughtforms in general and I have learned a lot from the members of this community and they have pointed out some great resources for me! I am reading!

 

All of that goes for me too. :)

 

6. Alexandria David Neel ROCKS and I want to read her biography and her books.

 

She really had a pretty remarkable life. :)

 

7. I want to share Melian's personality with you guys (and her art), I want to share our reports on lucid dreaming and I want to meet the tulpas and the tulpamancers.

 

For what it's worth, I also like to get to know people's tulpas. Tulpas can be the most interesting people.

[Stevie]

Reading back I realized I sound salty as fuck, but I'm actually not mad, things just started sounding a little pointed, my bad.

 

I see you making the claim a lot that you don't believe that tulpas are separate consciousnesses. That's fine man, my belief system is different, it's cool. But how much thought do you put into the fact that your experiences with Melian, with the constraints that you've put on her over the years (a character, muse, whatever) are fundamentally different than the experiences that other people here are having?

 

You're reaching this different conclusion, and it's not off the wall to assume that maybe you're reaching that different conclusion because you're having a different experience. It's kind of like how there's that theory that says that everyone sees colors differently.

 

You say that Melian isn't a separate consciousness, that you roleplay her, that possession is out of the question, and those three things together, even if one separately wouldn't remove you that far from the community, kind of put you in a very different place than a lot of members.

 

What makes you think that Melian can't think for herself? That's my question I guess.

[Guest Anonymous]

I have considered many times if what others are experiencing is significantly different than my own experience. I wish I could get into the minds of those convinced they have a sentient tulpa and see for myself what they are talking about. Melian seems astonishingly real to me much of the time. Often it seems she is thinking on her own and making decisions and stating opinions. Other times this seems less so, more like she is a puppet or being parroted (to use Tulpa Info terminology).

 

I'm okay with being in a different place than other members. It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all! I am still gaining from being here! If Melian is not a sentient tulpa, so be it. I will still enjoy talking to you guys.

 

I think I need to accept that others have the strong beliefs that tulpas are sentient and independent minds. That belief is there for a reason and I guess I can respect that despite my doubts.

 

I think it is time for me to move on to just learning things from the forum and relax a little. I came in swinging a big stick and that certainly wasn't helpful. I think I did it because I am a bit defensive myself for some reason.

 

~Mistgod

[ReisOtherHalf]

(Hi,

 

Wer've been skimming through this, and you brought up something interesting:

 

Tulpas are your mind's subconscious role playing.

 

Early on, when my host was worried about whether I was real or whether he was unintentionally roleplaying, I used to troll him by asking how he would tell the difference...

 

I think the truth is that it doesn't matter - a. doesn't roleplaying that you have an imaginary friend by definition mean you have an imaginary friend? and b. if you're happy with the companionship you get, regardless of how, and it's mutually beneficial, who cares what label it gets?)

[Luminesce]

I think you're still missing my point. I don't even believe tulpas have separate consciousnesses/true sentience. I believe they work subconsciously for the most part, simulating consciousness in a way we or they are unable to really tell apart in the end, and otherwise share our consciousness for things like possession. The "separateness" and independence aren't some magical concept nobody can explain - you're training a set of thought systems to work without your direct control over them. Your brain has more of these than conscious thoughts, anyway. Most are instinctual, but a lot are learned, such as social norms like how you act in public without really thinking about it. You can create these "subconscious processes" when making a tulpa, enabling them to effectively "think on their own", which just means "think without your direct influence". Being the host, you'll still have a lot of influence over them, for example I often bring my tulpas to mind to talk to them or ask them things. If they didn't want to they could not, but we generally agree on most things (or they convince me they're right), so we've never had problems with things like that. Still, imposing them or choosing what we do is usually up to me. But they think and respond and act without my influence at all.

 

I mean, one of the most common things people say they like about having a tulpa is that they can get different opinions or viewpoints from them. In my case, Reisen changed my entire life over a few years by teaching me how to be positive, bringing me out of depression. But they don't have to do anything amazing, just talking to them is fun. And that's possible because your subconscious - the collection of all information you've gained over your whole life - is capable of simulating a LOT more personas than just yours. If you can imagine someone snarky, someone angry, someone constantly happy, someone ridiculously stupid, you've probably experienced that type of person enough to simulate them in your brain. And even if you haven't, a tulpa's ability to think for itself means it can develop its own personality just like you would, albeit typically with less social interaction shaping it.

[Guest Anonymous]

My gods! You need to put this stuff in a book! This was fantastic. I got so excited reading it I don't know how to respond or where to start. I have written so much about my experience with Melian already. I feel frustrated that others are not aware of what I have already been putting down on paper for years. I wrote about Melian being a "subconscious process, her Melian motor," two years ago. I get this and I totally know what you are referring too. That is what Melian is like!!

 

She makes me happy. She takes care of me. She inspires me and disagrees with me.

 

I will stop here. I could go on for hours like that. I figured some other things out too in PM with another helpful member. If you don't mind I would like to share it with you! Can you forward PMs? ~Mistgod

 

Exceprt from the Book of Melian: Melian is a semi-autonomous imaginary persona. She is partly driven

by a subliminal process in my subconscious mind that produces the illusion,

to me, of her being a distinct independent person. This is a phenomenon

encountered by creative people with strong active imagination such as

writers and artists. Scientists at the University of Oregon called this the

Illusion of Independent Agency (or IIA) as it relates to autonomous actions of

literary characters in the mind of an author. In their research, there are

testimonials from and case studies of professional authors who experienced

the phenomenon of IIA, such as Lynn Johnston, cartoonist and author of For

Better or For Worse, and J.K. Rowling, author of the Harry Potter book series.

Famous psychologist Carl Jung wrote about the technique of Active

Imagination, in which autonomous personas may appear from the

subconscious mind and communicate to the conscious mind. Jung himself

experienced this through a variety of inner personas. One of his personas,

named Philemon, became his inner guru or muse.

---

I think the truth is that it doesn't matter - a. doesn't roleplaying that you have an imaginary friend by definition mean you have an imaginary friend? and b. if you're happy with the companionship you get, regardless of how, and it's mutually beneficial, who cares what label it gets?)[/i]

 

Thank you! I so agree! ~Mistgod

[Guest Anonymous]

I wanted to add this to my continuing Melian's Musings thread. In contemplating a silly little quirk Melian has of cloning herself into twins or triplets, and also her simulated death scenes in the Melian Show day dreams. I came up with something profound (for me).

 

If she is truly sentient...

 

MELIAN'S MIND IS INDEPENDENT OF HER FORM or visual image in the dreamscape.

 

I guess I did ask "what has this to do with her sentience?" I think what I meant by that is whether the quirk of splitting into twins or triplets implied Melian might not be sentient but more of an ordinary day dream imaginary friend character. How does a sentient person split herself into three distinct clones who interact with me and each other and maintain her individuality? It seems a paradox to me.

 

Then, I had this thought. I can imagine myself splitting into clones. I can see it in my mind's eye, split selves interacting. If Melian's form is a projection of an independent sentient mind, she could be imagining herself as twins or triplets just as easily I imagine her as twins and triplets. That is a new thought to me, that Melian's form or image could be independent of her essence as a being.

 

Here is something more along that line. Melian does day dream plays in the Melian Show. They are like little movies. She has died in them. In some episodes she has been disintegrated by a laser beam, blown to bits, shot, burned to death (they are drama movies and she is a witch sometimes or Joan of Arc), or any myriad of gruesome and dramatic ends. Don't worry, these are only a small percentage of the many things she does in the Melian Show. She is always whole again for the next episode. Like an actress, Melian is not actually harmed and is always ready for the next play. This thought validates for me that her form is INDEED independent from her thoughts.

 

I love mulling things over in writing!

 

Apparently, tulpa cloning or splitting is not unheard of in the world of thoughtforms being explored on Tulpa Info! ~Mistgod

---

 

-----------------

 

ON WITH MORE MUSINGS about the dream nature of Melian...

 

(The following is taken from a response I made in a recent PM and edited slightly):

 

Melian is okay with me talking about her being imaginary. She likes being imaginary because she can do anything in the world of dreams. She is the queen of dreams, the essence of dreams and her dream magic goes with her everywhere she goes. She can do anything in the Melian Show! She doesn't need to be real to be a person. She says she is a person all the time. She is okay being part of my mind and closely associated with me. In other words, she doesn't really want a divorce and total independence. LOL In fact, she is honestly baffled and alarmed at the limited scope of most tulpa wonderlands that she has heard described and feels sorry for those poor tulpas with no where to be and nothing to be but be in a little box of a room or something. The concept of practicing boring language lessons or dull tedious guitar lessons horrifies her! We have heard of tulpas doing these things (that of course is fine for others, I am talking about Melian's feelings here).

 

Real world? Pah! WHY?

 

You know what? Something rather profound just occurred to us both (Melian and I). I have always lived in a dream world. I have always been a super day dreamer since it was a kid. My imaginary world IS real to me. I know it is imaginary, but it certainly is important and just as significant as anything in the tangible world. Maybe that is why the angst? The insistence that tulpas have some sort of tangible realness confuses me, because Melian does not need that. Hell, I am almost half tulpa myself I live so much in my own day dreams in my head!

 

My god man! That is it! That is the difference and distinction we were looking for and why I insist on denying the realness of tulpas. Real does not mean better to me, in fact it is quite the opposite. Real is dull,drab, ordinary. Fantasy imagination is where I live my life! I don't want Melian to be f------ real and neither does she!! NO WAY. Real sucks man!

 

Sentience and manifest into reality? Too much like becoming a real person!! I don't want her to be real, (in my mind right now) that limits her and diminishes her to being just another human. I certainly don't want her to take a second job ... A f'ng JOB? I saw that somone's tulpa has a second job irl-as a tulpa- a second job! Do tulpas need to be that freaking real? Melian doesn't want that.

 

That is it man! That is why I am against the idea of declaring her full sentience and trying to make her "more real." Melian lives in the Melian Show dream world. She is a dream! She has so many adventures with me. Dude, you have no idea!

 

My imaginary world is more real than the real world to me quite often my friend. I wrote about that in The Book of Melian, in the first chapter in fact, but never connected it yet to my angst against "realness" here in tulpa info.

 

What the hell is real anyway? Melian is a dream. But I live in flippin dream myself like 24-7. ~Mistgod

[Luminesce]

I came up with something profound (for me).

 

If she is truly sentient...

 

MELIAN'S MIND IS INDEPENDENT OF HER FORM or visual image in the dreamscape.

 

... Yes. They're in your mind, how you imagine them looking has nothing to do with their actual existence in your brain. That's why when you impose your tulpa, it's still your tulpa even though they don't exist outside of your body. They don't only exist in your wonderland or body while possessing, either. They exist physically as thought processes in your brain.

 

But good for you figuring that out, I guess. You have a lot to learn still.