Confessions of a Poorly Trained Tulpa

[Guest Anonymous]

So my unpopular opinion about tulpas is that they're just as real as you. If their sentience is fake, so is yours.

 

Reisen. I respect you tremendously. I think you are awesome beyond awesome! But I must respond to that, with love and humor my dear friend, by saying...That is a load of horse poopy.

 

You do not completely understand me yet and I am not sure I will ever understand your view of reality I will admit. It seems a bit cosmic and beyond me.

 

I refer you to Rene Decartes. The only thing that each of us can individually be absolutely sure of is that we are thinking and so, hence, we exist. "I think therefore I am." A tulpas actual sentience is subject to doubt, because it could be that we are thinking for them (subconscious role playing) and just convincing ourselves it is separate being. This is precisely what I believe.

 

I am not saying the separate consciousness is less than mine, I am saying it does not exist at all. Ultimately, in reality, there is no Melian mind for real. I am Melian and she is me. I just choose to delude myself. It is all in my writing everywhere. I have said it before. I call it "voluntary delusion" or a "magician's trick of the mind" or "day dream on auto pilot."

 

Even Melian knows ultimately (or to clarify, I am imagining that she knows), she is just part of my mind. It's kind of like I split off a part of my own consciousness into a subroutine and I am playing a game with myself. An internal role play or make believe acting. Melian is not real, the game is just for her to just seem real. It doesn't matter to me. I still love her as if she were a real person. That is how I see imaginary things like her.

 

In short I am role playing Melian internally and I just really like her. But, it is just role playing and sort of an alternate personality game. By pseudo-real I mean a convincing VISION that is emotionally important to me. Significant and important enough to change me. Not actually real.

 

Even if my sentience is not real (not sure exactly how the hell that could be as I am indeed thinking), that still doesn't mean that hers is. I have no reason, none at all, to really believe that Melian is truly sentient. That idea is ridiculous to me in the extreme.

 

Yes, I know there are multiples and plural people and brain tests to show different brain patterns with various fronting personalities. I am convinced Melian's thoughts would show up on one of those tests! I have always wanted to try it! I still maintain it is one person, one mind, convincing himself or herself with smoke and mirrors and internal method acting. There is only one brain, and one consciousness imagining it is more than one person.

 

That is my unpopular opinion. One body, one brain, one mind. Not plural in reality. No matter how much we wish it were true.

 

Pseudo-real is a strange concept to grasp for others I know. It is very abstract. I mean it is not real, not in any way actually real. But it is significant and important none the same. Pseudo-real is better than something totally fake and therefore cheap and unimportant. When I say that Melian is not fake, that is what I mean. She is imaginary, but pseudo-real in that she is enduring and not totally unimportant and transitory.

 

An example of something pseudo-real in our culture would be Santa Claus. We know he is not real. But he is not totally fake either because he certainly is emotionally important to a lot of people. He is a thought form too, an egregore. He almost, almost exists in reality for a lot of people at Christmas time. The excitement about him is measurable and his image invokes emotion, even for adults. It's fun! We all know his personality and his legend and mythology. I like Santa Claus, to me he is pseudo-real. Permanent, enduring, emotional and important but totally imaginary. When I was in Sears once, during the holidays, I embarrassed my wife with my over top excitement on meeting Santa in the store. I made sure to hug him and tell him what I wanted for Christmas. I wasn't totally playing around. My heart was racing and I was super happy to see him. I realized it was a guy in a suit, but it was also Santa.

 

J.R.R. Tolkien, the author of Lord of the Rings always maintained that his literary Middle Earth was a real place. He didn't mean it existed in reality. He meant it had an essence to it in his mind and the mind of his readers and fans. Middle Earth was not fake or made up. He chronicled it as it came to him. I like Tolkien, because he would have understood what I mean by pseudo-real.

 

I don't know if you remember, but I once wrote about Mistgod the Wizard. When I go to Renaissance Fairs and Fantasy Fairs like Fairyworlds, I dress as Mistgod the Wizard and become Mistgod for the day. It is very real to me. It goes beyond role playing. For that day, I am Mistgod. Now if a security officer comes up to me and asks for an ID, I will produce it and identify myself by my real name. As soon as the encounter is over though, I will again become Mistgod. In my mind, I am a wizard. I am Mistgod, even though it is an imaginary persona. I am actually very proud to be a wizard. Mistgod is pseudo-real.

 

I know it is a difficult concept for you. But some people can role play so effectively and so deeply, part of them believes it. That is me. I believe my subconscious mind can do the same thing and does that with Melian. Now, that may not be a tulpa exactly, but some other kind of thing. I still think tulpas are made of the sort of stuff.

[jean-luc]

Imagination, the final frontier. These are the missions of the starship David, continuing its mission to explore strange new worlds. To seek out new ideas and new conceptualities. To boldy say what has never been said before.

[Luminesce]

You're mixing up some of my beliefs with others', and the rest you don't realize I already know about you. I don't believe in "multiple consciousnesses" or sentience separate from your own consciousness. Those come from my own experience though, so I don't doubt they may be possible to others. My tulpas use the same consciousness I use, but my belief differs here in that I am not my persona, but my awareness. The "me" others know is equivalent to the "Reisen" I know - personas, collections of personality and thought patterns and memories and so on. Of course my persona is strongly identified with my body and general life experience, because like everyone else I've known it as "me" my whole life, until recently.

 

Anyways, it's unfortunate you should cite Descartes saying that, because Eckhart Tolle, a spiritual teacher who has nothing to teach in the traditional sense but instead aims to help you remove mental blocks separating you from oneness (Enlightenment), cites it as "The greatest obstacle to experiencing englightenment".

 

"The philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most fundamental truth when he made his famous statement: "I think, therefore I am." He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error to equate thinking with Being and identity with thinking."

 

That's what I'm referring to more or less when I say that I am not my thoughts, but the awareness they arise from and are acknowledged by. But that's probably a foreign concept to someone who hasn't read The Power of Now, so I dunno. It's a good read and was incredibly useful to me, but it might seem ridiculous to those already cemented in their belief system. That's where the essence of my beliefs come from though. I'm constantly reworking my beliefs with what makes the most sense, and what's the most productive for a good life. As it stands, identifying myself as my thoughts serves against that goal. And since I don't believe I am my thoughts, that gives me a perspective of, well, my perspective. My tulpa is as real as my persona, and if you want to go deeper than that then yes, technically my persona and all my tulpas are one in essence. I'm not entirely free of ego identification yet (the type of thing many Eastern monks attempt to do, breaking their attachment to material things) so I still pretty much act like my persona is me. But I'm working on that.. Just a few more practical problems to solve in the coming years. Until then I suppose I'm in a sort of hypocritical limbo as far as my tulpas' "realness" goes, but then I'm not really the one that has a problem with my own perspective.

 

Unfortunately, by the time I become a living example of my ideal beliefs and can inspire others to the same, my tulpas and I will be one, and I won't have a reason to maintain different personas in my mind. But if I get to that point, I would already be everything I see in Reisen now, and she'd have helped me get there, so... Nothing wrong with that.

 

 

Did I go off topic? TL;DR We have differing fundamental beliefs on the nature of the mind and the gap is so great that even I cannot conceive of how to bring both sides to an understanding. That's never happened before either. I just don't know how to bridge such a large understanding gap, so for once in my life I'll accept the "agree to disagree" resolution, unless you'd like to try and understand my side. In that case, I'd recommend Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now. Otherwise, I'll accept these as just "unpopular opinions" and let bygones be bygones, whatever that means.

[Guest Anonymous]

We have differing fundamental beliefs on the nature of the mind and the gap is so great that even I cannot conceive of how to bring both sides to an understanding. That's never happened before either. I just don't know how to bridge such a large understanding gap, so for once in my life I'll accept the "agree to disagree" resolution, unless you'd like to try and understand my side. In that case, I'd recommend Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now. Otherwise, I'll accept these as just "unpopular opinions" and let bygones be bygones, whatever that means.

 

You are very right. At this point in my life, I don't think I can truly understand a mystical philosophy such as yours. I can respect it, but I don't comprehend it really at all. I do see that you have a perspective that is quite different than many people on this forum. I think we our perspectives on the nature of the self and consciousness are totally different. To me, self is the single mind that is absolutely and without question associated with the physical brain. Without the brain, there is no mind. It is possible we have a spirit or soul, but I am not convinced of that yet. I think we are agreement that tulpas are part of our own minds and are driven by the subconscious?

 

This where I think Tulpa Info has an identity problem. There are at least three conflicts.

 

1. It is supposed to be a scientific caucus. But the forum was created in the wrong venue for that. This is a public internet site open to anyone and everyone, most of whom have a poor understanding of how science works.

 

2. The core premise of Tulpa Info is probably impossible to prove scientifically (independent sentience of tulpas). The divergence between this premise and the assertion that it is all For Science gave this forum a built in conflict of identity from the very start.

 

3. Because of point 2, the forum is not scientific but philosophical or pseudo-scientific in nature. For it to be scientific, the main premise or hypothesis would have to be testable. The best we can do is show that plurality of mind is plausible perhaps. That does not prove anything about the actual existence of tulpa sentience in the end. All we can do is show a lot of people are convinced they have a sentient tulpa and record their experiences and personal testimony. You might as well have a scientific forum based on shamanism and nature spirits.

 

If you are trying to say plurality of mind exists somehow in one body, well, I respectfully disagree with you on that point yes. Now I will say it is entirely possible I am totally wrong and you are totally right. I just have to go with my best conclusions for myself for now.

 

I am not opposed to reading the book you suggest. I have been reading about Magical Thoughtforms and Tibetan Buddhism already so why not? I always learn something and maybe, just maybe, it will bring me one tiny step closer to enlightenment. :-)

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Imagination, the final frontier. These are the missions of the starship David, continuing its mission to explore strange new worlds. To seek out new ideas and new conceptualities. To boldy say what has never been said before.

 

Hah hah! Yes! I have always wanted to be a starship captain! Only no brain parasites this time!

[Guest Anonymous]

This where I think Tulpa Info has an identity problem.

 

1. It is supposed to be a scientific caucus. But the forum was created in the wrong venue for that. This is a public internet site open to anyone and everyone, most of whom have a poor understanding of how science works.

 

2. The core premise of Tulpa Info is probably impossible to prove scientifically (independent sentience of tulpas). The divergence between this premise and the assertion that it is all For Science gave this forum a built in conflict of identity from the very start.

 

3. Because of point 2, the forum is not scientific but philosophical or pseudo-scientific in nature. For it to be scientific, the main premise or hypothesis would have to be testable. The best we can do is show that plurality of mind is plausible perhaps. That does not prove anything about the actual existence of tulpa sentience in the end. All we can do is show a lot of people are convinced they have a sentient tulpa and record their experiences and personal testimony. You might as well have a scientific forum based on shamanism and nature spirits.

[Luminesce]

Oh, "The forum is not scientific but pseudo-scientific", that statement brings back bad memories. We're just a little unorganized trying to bring science to a phenomena of the imagination is all.

 

I don't believe in plurality of the mind, in the sense that you can have multiple minds. I believe that it may be that way to some, but not to me. Neither I nor my tulpas have experienced anything to suggest that. They effectively use my same mind, even my focus to function, although with practice you can give the illusion of actual independent thinking. I believe a tulpa is a persona the same as yours, however you consider yourself to be. I believe they can stand on equal ground with you, the only difference being you(rs) has existed longer and is much more identified with the physical body and mind. I've seen little to prove a tulpa could not wholly take the place of their host if they both so desired, especially since my tulpas are capable of controlling our mind and body just fine, bringing their ways of thinking (and more productive mindsets..) with them.

 

But I really, truly believe that what is not true for me, is factually true to others. I really, really believe that things make logical sense to them that would not currently to me. And I believe my reality could be expanded to encompass theirs, as is my general long-term goal in life, to encompass in understanding as many peoples' realities as I can in mine. In that journey I've seen time and time again falsities become truths, unreality become reality. A lot of the time it can be explained by a much larger encompassing reality-bubble, science, but sometimes it can't. Due to the imaginative nature of humans, some beliefs and therefore realities simply do not fit within science, but I won't make an exception for them. I'll do whatever it takes to understand everyone, and to unite as many people as I can in my own reality bubble, spreading understanding.

 

So to you, my beliefs seem like they probably don't follow your logic, although you can't actually tell being so distanced from them. But they make logical sense to me, in my reality, and I've worked really hard to build this reality I live in, primarily with science too. And I still use logic for the more spiritual parts, though when you get to unreal-yet-productive-and-positive beliefs that are maintained for the sake of a good life, science doesn't fit as well despite the persisting logic. The spiritual teachings I've received make logical sense to me despite not being scientific, and they've been proven to improve the lives of those who embrace them, while maintaining open-mindedness and awareness instead of delusion. This is why I believe them, why I've changed and expanded my old reality to encompass them.

 

The realness of my tulpas doesn't even seem that hard to explain, though I must not be very good at doing so because many still don't get it. Your reality is not the physicality around you, it's the physicality that you perceive with your senses that is converted into awareness in your brain. And to that extent, your imagination and the rest of your thoughts are just as real. They won't affect you physically directly, though they may influence it through intention-manifestation or just chemical reactions, but they will affect you at your core. The part of you controlling the physical body, the part that creates and listens to thoughts, the part that feels. Tulpas are real to that part of you, and that's the part I consider your true self. When you call Melian and tulpas "not real, but important", I see that as denial of part of your reality. I see that as overly valuing the physical and ignoring the internal/mental/spiritual/what have you. And that's a problem, because it's a lot, even all of what makes up your reality. Your senses may connect your internal to the external so well you think it's a direct connection, but it really scientifically isn't. But anyways, my point is that tulpas are real to their host in the way that matters. They aren't physically real (aside from complicated brainwavey-wise), but then neither are any of your feelings and emotions, and those sure are real. And important.

 

The realness you seem to be speaking of is autonomy, or separate-sentience. The difference between advanced imaginary friends and tulpas in this sense is that an imaginary friend is still fairly directly controlled by the host consciously or unconsciously, while a tulpa is the result of training your subconscious to run them automatically. A tulpa is "sentient" without any input on your part, running purely on your brain's automatic and non-conscious processes, many of which you purposely set up or influenced. An imaginary friend acts on your present will for them. I don't live inside your head, but from what I can tell I believe Melian is already part of the way, or nearly all the way there. Your beliefs are of her being an imaginary friend and not sentient, yet she seems to be so ingrained in your mind that she functions separately from your direct influence. Separate doesn't mean she has her own brain in another dimension and her thoughts are foreign to yours, only that they come from somewhere else in your brain other than your direct will at the present. I think she's gotten to the point where she is effectively "her own person" in the tulpa sense, but not in that separate-being sense you seem to fear. No one's claiming anything metaphysical, we just differentiate this to help each other understand progression towards a ~common goal, a sentient person in your mind not under your direct control.

 

 

Well, I've run out of things to say, that's the end of my textwall. I thank you for putting up with all the inconsistencies in our beliefs that I act as if we have in common and attempting to continue learning, that's all I can ask of you. Take what people stubbornly insist to be true, analyze it, try it out for yourself. See how it feels, how true it is to you, and what you can learn from it. Keep or change what you will, and carry on a better person.

[Guest Anonymous]

We do seem to agree that tulpas are a subconscious process and a kind of simulated consciousness.

 

You make an intriguing point that feelings and emotions are our intangible actual self and that tulpas are made of the same stuff. Okay. As Melian would say "that is a very pointy idea!"

 

I talked about my dual nature before. You can see it in conflict here very often. I am a fan of magic and mysticism and imagination, but then also a fan of all things science. They are in conflict.

 

I often have people note that my opinions seem to shift around and I contradict myself. Yeah, they do and I do. I have a dual nature to my belief system that is often in direct conflict. Reisen, I am a scientific guy who has an imaginary girl in his head, whom he dearly loves and listens to. I also believe I am a wizard. I talk about the forum having an identity crisis, but it mirrors my own really.

 

I love, love, love the idea of sentient tulpas. But much of my mind is in open rebellion at just accepting it. I think I must, MUST, learn to live and let live on this forum and be willing to believe what others are telling me to be true for them. My attitude can be that Melian is imaginary and illusory, but I need to let others have their sentient tulpas. There is no harm in that really.

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OMG! I really need to make the nature of a tulpa a taboo subject for myself. It is driving me insane! The negativity I brought to this forum is really getting very old. It's my fault. I am obsessive and crazy.

 

Taboo subject from now on:

 

1. The nature of a tulpa (real vs illusory).

 

2. Personality conflicts and criticism of other members of the forum.

 

3. Criticism of the forum itself. (I will try, but sometimes I can't help myself)

 

Also, I need to live and let live and respect others having their own beliefs. I think the taboo subjects above will solve that problem anyway.

 

I have presented my beliefs about Melian's nature ad nauseum. I don't need to talk about it anymore. There are so many other things to share about her that are more important anyway. I just want to read about tulpas, share Melian and enjoy my time here from this point on.

[Guest Anonymous]

I am so awesomsauce amazing and totally groovy gravy!

[jean-luc]

okayy.......

[Guest Anonymous]

okayy.......

 

Yay!

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Pluto just became my most favorite planet ever, ever! It has a big heart on it! It is a little adorable dwarf planet too! If I could hug a planet, it would be Pluto.

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/07/14/science/14sos_pluto/14sos_pluto-articleLarge.jpg[/img]