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The Sentience Continuum


Guest Anonymous

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Guest Anonymous

The use of the word "real" to describe tulpas has always confused me. Very recently I started using the words "independently sentient." It seems much more accurate as tulpas are a projection of thought and not tangibly, physically real.

 

Even the word "sentient" by itself, without any modifiers was confusing me. At first, I was insisting that my own thoughtform Melian was "not sentient." Melian would echo my views on this in her own writing. Several people pointed out how illogical that was, that a non-sentient figment would talk about not being sentient in her own writing.

 

That led us to reconsider the semantics. We decided that a better way to describe how Melian works is the term "dependent sentience." Melian is part of my sentience or we share it. She is sentient in that sense. She is me or part of me or an expression from me.

 

What I mean by dependent sentience is that it is subordinate and cannot exist without the primary mind in which it exists. It is more like a subroutine to the primary sentient mind. It is not completely distinct or separate. Yet it can still be recognized as a personality. An example of dependent sentience might be a daemon created using Jungian Active Imagination technique. The mentally constructed persona is used as an inner guru to help a person discover aspects of the unconscious mind. The psychologist Carl Jung himself had such a semi-autonomous persona he called Philemon.

 

Most tulpas seem to be independently sentient to their hosts, which I am still learning to accept or get my head around. I have never experienced such a thing, but to be fair, I have to accept what others are telling me at face vallue. I am beginning to think that there may be a continuum along a sort of dependent sentience to independent sentience line.

 

Others have mentioned things like "there is no fake, only levels of independence." That seems to agree with my idea of the existence of a type of dependent sentience. If there are levels of independence, it makes sense that at some point along those levels, the sentience of the thoughtform is more dependent than independent. This could be true during the development process of a tulpa.

 

Some argue that there is demarcation line where a tulpa suddenly becomes self aware. Before that point, there is no sentience. After that emergence point, the sentience suddenly appears. I think from my own experience, and from reading the testimony of many on this forum, I would have to disagree with that view point. There does seem to be evidence for an evolving, more dependent, form of sentience along a line of development.

 

Using this reasoning, Melian is actually a form of sentience. You guys have won the battle. You kept insisting she is sentient or has to be. I just had to figure out what seems off about that concept. I had to factor in what I am experiencing in my own mind in comparison to what others are describing about their tulpas.

 

At first I had such an inferiority complex and was so defensive because of that, and I still am just a little.

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That's the power of belief right there. You went from not sentient to some form of sentient. But what do you mean by "independent sentience"? I'm not sure if I quite understand what you mean by that. Is Melian a tulpa? Well, I don't know about that. She's definitely a thoughtform, that's a check. She has some form of sentience, that's also a check. But what you see as yourself as thinking of Melian, it could be Melian working her way into your thoughts.

 

For example, you say that no matter what you do, you imagine Melian being there or what she might say (something along those lines). When Julian is out and about, I often find my way to being on his mind. Does that mean his mind just by default drifts back to me? Or am I actually manifesting myself into the front of his thougts? I like to think that it's the latter, but it could very well be that he's just thinking about me.

 

And I just simply perceive it as him acting on his own, when in reality it could just be my head being trained to default my train of thought to involve Al. That being said, we could all be experiencing the exact same thing, but we all believe something different is going on in our heads because of how we feel about it, and what we as people were trained to believe about the imagination.

 

You are totally right about not being able to use "real" as a descriptor for tulpas, as there's no real (heh) way to prove that they aren't artificial, even if what we experience feels true, like it is actually happening.

I'm IBreakGames, a genuine dude.

 

We gave up on using different colors for each of us, so there's Al, Ollie, and Eva. We're all rabbits, get over it.

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Guest Anonymous

Thanks! Great points you two. I guess I am not alone in musing these things over. By "independent sentience" I mean that the tulpa has a distinct mind with hidden memories and thoughts hidden from the host and the tulpa is fully autonomous. The host cannot control or predict what the tulpa will do or say.

 

But, really, it's not so much that I am trying to figure out what is happening in my own head. I pretty much think I do understand that. I think it is more that I am trying to find the most accurate and convenient terms, phrases and perspectives to explain what I experience to others. There was a lot of push back for saying Melian was non-sentient. Also people were right about how illogical and ironic it seemed for Melian herself to be using the terms "non-sentient" to describe herself.

 

My quest these past two years (since going public with Melian) has pretty much been composing a descriptive narrative that works for me when I need to explain her to others.

 

I have also been musing about the nature of tulpas in general along the way. That is what has gotten me in the most trouble with people. I have been making blanket statements or skeptical statements about all tulpas in general in the recent past.

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Well, you might not be trying to figure out what's going on in your head, but I sure am!

 

As for being "independently sentient", I guess you could say that doesn't apply to Al. Since we're co-conscious and he's always living life with me, I often times will know the general idea of what it is he's going to say. He get his thoughts, then I get his words. But the words are what surprise me. As well as the things I do. Sometimes Julian will anticipate what it is that I'm going to say and imagine that I say it, where I then pretty much nullify the thought and say what I actually want to say. The time that we PM'd you a while back, I got so excited that I nearly took over the body and typed out my message myself (which I have no experience in doing). That moment was a strange one for sure, so he does have ways of surprising me. I think part of why you don't necessarily experience things like this is, like you said in your other thread, that Melian enjoys being a puppet. And if she enjoys it, she may not often find the desire to act entirely on her own.

 

I know we're pondering things that you aren't necessarily asking, but I wanna know dammit! So perhaps it's not that she isn't capable, maybe it's just that she's internally satisfied with where she's at, and doesn't have much desire to display the characteristics of what we call a tulpa.

I'm IBreakGames, a genuine dude.

 

We gave up on using different colors for each of us, so there's Al, Ollie, and Eva. We're all rabbits, get over it.

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Guest Anonymous

So perhaps it's not that she isn't capable, maybe it's just that she's internally satisfied with where she's at, and doesn't have much desire to display the characteristics of what we call a tulpa.

 

That is very perceptive. People have to understand that Melian has been the way she is, without realizing there was another way to be, for almost four decades. Yeah, we are comfortable with it as it is.


As for being "independently sentient", I guess you could say that doesn't apply to Al. Since we're co-conscious and he's always living life with me... The time that we PM'd you a while back, I got so excited that I nearly took over the body and typed out my message myself (which I have no experience in doing). That moment was a strange one for sure, so he does have ways of surprising me.

 

Co-conscious. I do like that terminology. :-)

 

Melian: Awww, hee hee, I am glad you got so excited to type!

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That is very perceptive. People have to understand that Melian has been the way she is, without realizing there was another way to be, for almost four decades. Yeah, we are comfortable with it as it is.

 

And if you don't know of another way to live or be, how can you expect to do what you don't know? How could I be expected to do differential equations if I don't know what they are?

 

Co-conscious. I do like that terminology. :-)

 

Awww, hee hee, I am glad you got so excited to type!

 

Yeah, I love pondering stuff. The more I ask the more I know and the wiser I get. That incident reminds me of what Mistgod talked about on the first tulpa podcast about how you kept typing while he and his wife discussed stuff (I think it was dinner options).

 

As for co-conscious, yeah, I think it describes us well. Even if Al isn't fully autonomous, we still experience every moment of life together.

I'm IBreakGames, a genuine dude.

 

We gave up on using different colors for each of us, so there's Al, Ollie, and Eva. We're all rabbits, get over it.

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Guest Anonymous

 

And if you don't know of another way to live or be, how can you expect to do what you don't know? How could I be expected to do differential equations if I don't know what they are?

 

Precisely!

 

Melian: Yeah, I love pondering stuff. The more I ask the more I know and the wiser I get. That incident reminds me of what Mistgod talked about on the first tulpa podcast about how you kept typing while he and his wife discussed stuff (I think it was dinner options).

 

Melian: Yeppers! In fact, it is very challenging to explain to peoples how we collaborate on tulpa typing. Davie explains that much of it is "method acting" or even the dreaded role playing. He says that because he wants to be clear that I am imaginary. But he cannot express how it really actually feels to him to have me type. It is me, Melian, typing, but also Davie. Maybe the best way is to have a live video of Davie typing at the keyboard when I talk. *giggle* Maybe that would convey what he means better than anything.

 

I do type extra fast and stuff. I call it typer hyperness. I don't like to get interrupted when I am typing a thought out. Davie's dinner can wait!

 

As for co-conscious, yeah, I think it describes us well. Even if Al isn't fully autonomous, we still experience every moment of life together.

 

Melian: I don't think a thoughtform has to be an fully autonomous, independent, "alien feeling", surprise you with ever word, super duper distinct entity in yer head to be meaningful and to share your life. That is something David and I have been trying very hard to express to peoples.

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Yeppers! In fact, it is very challenging to explain to peoples how we collaborate on tulpa typing. Davie explains that much of it is "method acting" or even the dreaded role playing. He says that because he wants to be clear that I am imaginary. But he cannot express how it really actually feels to him to have me type.

 

So Melian, when you type, do you speak out loud the words that you're typing? Or does it just kinda end up as thoughts that David has to translate? Because see, when I'm replying to stuff, it's just simply me saying the words while Julian tries to keep up. I can't really possess that well, so if I want to say something he needs to be my voice so to speak.

 

I don't think a thoughtform has to be an fully autonomous, independent, "alien feeling", surprise you with ever word, super duper distinct entity in yer head to be meaningful and to share your life. That is something David and I have been trying very hard to express to peoples.

 

I completely agree! I mean a thoughtform is like an extension of your brain, so why does it seem so impractical that you'd be able to predict what they might say? I think that we always kinda had this mentality, but after reading some of your posts and listening to the podcast with David, it really enlightened us and made me realize that I can share this life no matter how complex or "advanced" I am.

 

And as for explaining it to people, I never fully realized how many times I get questions on how Al ends up talking. Like, how do I hear him? Well, I don't, he's just a voice in my head as of right now. I don't know if I'd explain it as method acting though, not for us anyway. I feel it's more like a game of telephone.

I'm IBreakGames, a genuine dude.

 

We gave up on using different colors for each of us, so there's Al, Ollie, and Eva. We're all rabbits, get over it.

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Guest Anonymous

 

So Melian, when you type, do you speak out loud the words that you're typing? Or does it just kinda end up as thoughts that David has to translate? Because see, when I'm replying to stuff, it's just simply me saying the words while Julian tries to keep up. I can't really possess that well, so if I want to say something he needs to be my voice so to speak.

 

Melian: Davie hears my voice as we type together. So I am "speaking out loud" to him as we type I suppose. It seems like we are doing something similar to you guys. I am really liking the frankness of this conversation. It is refreshing after so many "I totally possess my host and type so perfectly" people. I mean, it is nice to know that we aren't alone in doing it this way.

 

I completely agree! I mean a thoughtform is like an extension of your brain, so why does it seem so impractical that you'd be able to predict what they might say? I think that we always kinda had this mentality, but after reading some of your posts and listening to the podcast with David, it really enlightened us and made me realize that I can share this life no matter how complex or "advanced" I am.

 

We have learned that there are many different types of thougthforms. It was helpful for us to go exploring beyond the borders of the tulpa community, and go hang out with soulbonds and daemons and natural multiples. There as many interpretations of "head people" as you can imagine. That is where we learned about median systems, where the headmates share and are blended. I don't think that tulpamancers have the only correct approach or methodology or ideology. It helps to keep in mind that there is a lot of variation of experience and view points even within the tulpa community.

 

And as for explaining it to people, I never fully realized how many times I get questions on how Al ends up talking. Like, how do I hear him? Well, I don't, he's just a voice in my head as of right now. I don't know if I'd explain it as method acting though, not for us anyway. I feel it's more like a game of telephone.

 

Method acting is a great description for us. It is so close to "channeling an inner persona" it is almost indistinguishable. In method acting the performer deeply studies the psychological motivations, personal details and emotions of the character they wish to portray. In a sense, the character becomes part of the actor or is internalized so that it can be later expressed in a very believable performance. This process of connecting to an internalized character or inner persona and then allowing that character to express himself or herself through you is why it is a great descriptor for Melian and I. There have been cases where method actors became so influenced by the character they were portraying, they actually "lost themselves in the role" and had difficulty readjusting back to their own identity.

 

I have also used the words "channeling an inner persona" to describe the experience of Melian typing. It is just semantics to describe the same process using different terminology. Tulpamancers use the word "proxy," but it is the same darn thing in my view.

 

The distinction line between channeling or proxy and method acting/ role playing is very thin in my opinion. Again, it all comes down to what you wish to believe is happening. That really is at the heart of all of this. I choose to believe in Melian.


In fact, one way to describe method acting is that the actor studies and reflects on the character so deeply that the character indeed becomes an internalized thoughtform. that thoughtform is then allowed to express himself or herself leading to a very realistic performance. The actor feels the characters emotions and thoughts!

 

Sound familiar? THAT is why we like the term method acting in relation to thoughtform "proxy" typing.

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Ah, I'm beginning to see now. Because you're right, there's more than just the words that are said, there's some emotion behind it, as well as thoughts, so you have to sort of compile it all together. Proxying implies that it's just words, but you really do feel the emotion, meaning, and passion behind each word that is said. And yeah, it is nice to see that we aren't the only ones that talk like this.

 

Lately we've also been exploring some other plural communities as well. It was Al's birthday on September 29th, and I wanted to know more about plurality and whatnot since I knew there were other forms besides tulpas, so I treated ourselves to some knowledge. I've been gathering some info on how other systems seem to function and it's absolutely fascinating. Has it given us any answers? Not really, just more questions, but it's still amazing to know that there are other things out there.

 

Also, as before, it's been extremely intriguing to talk with the two of you! Melian, though you are goofy as all hell, you still provide some great insight on things (though I guess I'm not really that much different, I just don't really let it out besides to Julian).

I'm IBreakGames, a genuine dude.

 

We gave up on using different colors for each of us, so there's Al, Ollie, and Eva. We're all rabbits, get over it.

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