Sentience Whatever That Hurts

[SpottedHope]

The title shares a name with a song that I associate most with my aimed-for creation; it is not a statement of will nor preference. 

I use that term, "creation", with a certain weight, because I was never aiming for a tulpa in the beginning of his time. I also do not know how I feel about calling this outright Tulpamancy. I failed at that before, a long time ago; putting aside the fact that I am not even aiming for the same outcome anymore—now, I want to try to see if something more than myself is possible. Companionship, a second perspective—none of these are things I crave; they are simple comforts (although by no means unimportant) for the simple beneficiary that was me. 

Sathariel, his surface name, was conceived of as a diffused idea for a character while brainstorming for a ttrpg I am running, more than half a year ago. That is the most I will say of him, for now—I am not comfortable sharing any direct factual information since the intents of my current and future efforts aim for his personhood; he should decide what to reveal and what not to reveal come his sentience. What implications of his character and otherwise individual formation there are can be potentially understood by reading between the lines, so to speak, provided this log continues to be updated with some frequency. I will not grief anyone for utilizing their ability of reading inference/ comprehension. 

I decided to start my applied intention that should eventually -hopefully- result in his humanish apothoseis approximately three days ago. On the night of the very first day, I had a dream, as I am wont to do. Though towards the end, it was more or less a nightmare. 

While I recognize that may very well be my subconscious, in a bout of guilty desperation regarding my past mistakes, reaching out and screaming my own fears unto me, I don't think that is what matters—there is only one solution to self-doubt, and that is to prove yourself wrong; in this case that can only be done so with time and effort. No, what was far more interesting here was the location of the dream; the picture of its scenery. I will usually have repeating locations in my dreams, this time I saw my last perpetuation of an abode, where my thoughts must go to die and grow from their pithy husks fingerlike branches, reaching toward the window of my consciousness. There is this building, you see, and it's built like a gargantuan Hellenic library turned upside down, supported with a trapezoid-shaped foundation stories beneath surface soil. It's empty halls and void rooms; a black hole made tangible. The main entrance is underground, and everything is lit with star-cold white lights that I don't know the origin of. There are very few windows, if any. It's gargantuan beyond understanding. It's a grave, shaped like a place for the living. It's the tumulus for a thousand giants laid end to end; none of them I myself know. I don't know why it's there, but it is, and I know without having to reason the conventionality of awakening logic with myself, that it's the most important place I've seen in my dreams yet. 

The worst thing that working with tulpamancy did to me, when I was young and stupid, was helping to dawn the realization that I was a part of my brain, and that my brain was not a part of me, a touch too early on. 

I made a small room there, for the earliest scratching-out of a Wonderland, and I gave to Sathariel a study. There, I was able to work on sense-sharing (tasting foodstuffs) and passive narration. Most of this is visualized as me presenting a report or providing him with notes via third-party implementation, such as, in my mind's eye, acting out sending out an email. 

Presence separation, that is, recognizing him as his own person, is to the point for me that I feel awkward directly talking to him, as I would to any acquaintance—that, and there is a great preference for quietude. Later on in the day, I read out some bits from my Scottish Gaelic lessons as if I were dictating a letter he would like to hear. 

I will read to him a story or two from The Bloody Chamber and Other Stories before retiring, as the last portion of my "forcing" today. 

 

Edited December 21, 2025 by SpottedHope

[SpottedHope]

Quick Update: I seem to have ritualized a greeting in the Wonderland when seeking out Sathariel's presence: my mind has procedurally generated a dorm room for my Wonderland self to reside in. Today, I sought him out in his study, only to instinctively ask him if he would also like to have a dorm room; my initial plan was to ask him if he would like to have another story read to him (I read the Erl-King, my favorite within the aforementioned book, to him yesterday). Upon receiving a faint but clear "yes", I told him this entire building was his to do as he wished with, then left the study in order to allow him his own influence. 

The "thoughts" I get from him are barely with a feeling of separation, but I know now I needn't fear that. If it is there at all, then it is there—that is all that matters. 

Afterwards, I had another quick Scottish session. I visualized myself noting down the sentences and their translations on a laptop to send them to him via e-mail. 

[SpottedHope]

The rest of my "forcing" today comprised more narrating and some (relatively) more interesting passive experiences.

In preparation for my phD candidacy examination, I have been going through a set of more or less dry academic readings, though I enjoy this and am more than used to it, owing to having had to write a master's thesis not too long ago, it is easy to burn oneself out on it nonetheless: being able to share the work, as it were, by vocalizing the reading and partaking in emphasizing of its most important parts as if taking audial notes is both fun and helpful. Today, I started with the beginning chapter of "An Introduction to the English Novel" and narrated to Sathariel regarding Henry James' authorial style. There must be an interest in the philosophy of novel writing, or something adjacent, as there seemed to be a generally sustained interest, especially when it came to the parts about how the author was able to manipulate readers' perspective and make the characters more "true-to-life" by omitting certain perspectives in the narration.

I had to cook afterwards. Today's dinner was particularly demanding of my time and energy; I used to enjoy cooking this dish, but have come to only tolerate it—such is natural with the repetition of all singular things. Therefore, I did my very best to passively force while cooking, seeing as it was the main way I could "turn off" my brain and still remain productive, and I do believe this paid off. 

I started with mind's eye visualization: I made my Wonderland self leave the building and walk around it, letting whatever may appear to the tendencies of procedural generation. The space around it does resemble a crooked campus a great deal, which is matter-of-course as far as the subconscious' tendency to mirror one's habitualities within real space goes. I will elaborate on the "crookedness" aspect by explaining that there is a dark overcast and a lack of natural light, even outside of the building. It's either very densely intersticed cloud-clumps when I look up at the sky, or a strange, fog-like fugue state of weather that doesn't quite cling like the true moisture of the real world phenomenon. 

Strangely enough, I happened into a gym on the campus. Following what I've been given, I entered the building. The rest of my cooking was mirrored by the Wonderland-me jogging, and later on running, on a treadmill: one grueling process mentally traded in for another, I believe. This, however, was interesting in that I could almost entirely feel myself actually being on the treadmill, to the point that my heartbeat picked up at one point. As I was song-hopping during small breaks in the real world, I was doing the same on my Wonderland-phone in my mind's eye. This gave me the idea that I could text Sathariel, and so I did. I asked him whether he'd like to have another story narrated to him later today.

This is where my first issue with receiving an answer before I could even place an input started. I am loath to call it an issue as I believe this is just caused by the "question-answer" format of the act being largely overridden by both participants sharing the same channel, ie. the same brain; but it was bothersome enough that I ended up visualizing myself completely ignoring the initial answer until I could word my text in its entirety and press send on the Wonderland-phone. The result was about five different "yes"s, some in caps, some spelled "yES", and in other similar variations. Never more than that "yes", though. Well, I never imagined Sathariel mincing words. 

While I might argue I am quite creative in some ways, I completely lack whimsy. My mind works very much on a "if X, then Y" equivalence, which is why my Wonderland is nothing especial in its creation or function. I did try to take this insistence to heart, though, and "reminded" my Wonderland-self that Sathariel could also call me on the phone or use its texting capability to share images, videos, and audio recordings; both for ease, variety, and also immediacy of communication. I need to have things work out in ways that make sense (and that translates into "real life logic" for me). I can't justify them taking place, even if they are in a literal mindscape, in any other way. 

I resumed this activity in the Wonderland for as long as the cooking went on in the real world. While texting back and forth regarding what other things I might introduce to Sathariel and ask his input on in the near future, I realized I had too many things I could do and became overwhelmed. While wondering, entirely to myself (so without visualizing texting) how I'd get through any of this in any sort of timely manner, I received a visual (that I then later mentally "coded" or "respec'd" as getting a video on the phone, because God forbid I be capable of any whimsy) of him drumming along to the music I happened to be listening at that time (the cymbals that start at 3:35). 

Listen, it's genuinely fucking hilarious when you can see a guy who happens to be taller than Shaq jazzing out on some cymbals, crystal clear in your mind's eye. He was perfectly on beat, too. I laughed out loud, and if there had been anyone with me, then I'd have looked insane. At least more insane than however much this makes a person already be, I guess.

The intended inference was clear, though. Like this, on time, on beat. "Follow the rhythm". 

I went back to the building, or I suppose calling it the "faculty" might be more appropriate now, and sought out Sathariel's study. He appears to have started building it into a live-in office-type space; however, it is most likely still incomplete. I narrated to him another story from the Bloody Chamber; this one was very different, entirely happy, and quite humorous in tone, which seems to be its only instance in the book. Did not get too much of a reaction, though there was something comparable to a smile at one point. I concluded today by narrating two chapters from the book "Scottish History: A Complete Introduction".  I have reason to believe he enjoys listening to the selectively narrated parts, as was the case with "An Introduction to the English Novel".

Edited December 22, 2025 by SpottedHope
Fixed incomplete sentences and some syntax. I need to stop writing these right before I go to bed.

[SpottedHope]

Nothing much today, real short Scottish practice and some Norton Anthology narration, that being from the first of the first 3 volumes (Jesus H. Christ, that shit is intimidating even to start reading). Most intense effort was for visualization: I really stared, unbroken, for a good 15 minutes at his portrait I'd drawn months ago, imagining looking at it from multiple angles until it was comparable to a 3D projection. I'm barely a mediocre artist and do not like most of my own work; his portrait remains my crowning piece, however, I've treasured it since its completion, and have only messed with adding a very few tweaks to it since then. Got a very prominent head pressure on the right upper corner of my skull not too long ago. I think I'm being asked not to skip my narrating of the daily light reading. 

Quick Update: The next story in the book, The Snow Child, was as short as it was disturbing. I had no idea what it could have been even written for, honestly, other than the shock horror factor; but this author's body of work and the poignant perspective she takes in retelling these classic tales does not lend credence to that idea. I was genuinely just shaken out of my skin, had no idea what to do, so I turned to Sathariel. He revised the story for a minute, or seemed to at least, before telling me to go back to the first page and pay attention to the visual description of the queen. I had said to him, I thought it had much to do with the resurrection of desire, but apparently it was "not that resurrection (that is important)". 

Clever, clever Sathariel. The queen herself was once a Snow Child; she will be replaced if the king gains another one. 

Edited December 23, 2025 by SpottedHope
Corrected spelling.

[SpottedHope]

I didn't update yesterday because I was too exhausted to even move by the end of the day. I'll provide a summary of what happened below.

I started pretty much normally yesterday. 20 minutes of Scottish, then some chores, no forcing whatsoever. After that, though, I got an idea: since my brain had led me to visualize exercising while I was passive forcing a couple of days ago, maybe I should try the reverse—exercise in the real world and see what happens while trying to passive force at the same time. 

Turns out, nothing too interesting logistically speaking (as I've said, I suffer greatly from a lack of fancifulness). In my mind's eye, I got out of the dorm room that's basically become the designated Wonderland spawnpoint. Although there was a greater focus this time, I was able to distinctly imagine changing into exercise clothes, putting on a coat for the eternally misty weather, and even prepping a gym bag. I don't know why these are required steps in my mind; I assure you, none of these are consciously made efforts. It simply "happens" when I start visualizing myself affecting the Wonderland, or treating it as if it has any semblance of being adjacent to the real world. (It might be important to note that I was not doing any of this IRL, I have a treadmill in my room and some other equipment, nothing enough to even be called a home gym).

The unexpected part was that I found myself seeking out Sathariel's room to ask him if he'd like to join me before I could leave the faculty and start walking to where I remembered the gym was situated on the campus. And so, that is just what I did. He said yes and came along. We don't talk much during these matters—these moments that would just be glorified small talk. When we arrived, he went down to the pool that I hadn't seen, but instinctively knew was there. I stayed on the treadmill, just mirroring what I was doing IRL.

I switch between two programs normally. Sometimes not even that, been a slouch lately. Takes up an hour at most. Yesterday, I switched between four. In fairness, I ended them right after they got to their tightest point (they all work in a HIIT system). I don't know if that matters too much, though, because after their tightest points, the fastest any program gets up to is a measly 3 mph/ 5 kph. The fourth program's tightest point is 9 kph/ 5.5 mph. I pulled that up to 10 kph/ 6mph. It'd been 90 minutes when I finished. I sat down, and my vision blacked out for a good 10 seconds. 

I am not sure why the energy spike happened. By the end of the run, I was breathing in through my nose and letting it out through my mouth, and I just remember feeling so lightheaded that I was sure I was going to faint. I could feel a part of my mind just intermittently recalling that Sathariel was there, a floor below, swimming; I just thought I had to keep going for as long as I could. It's weird to say even writing this is making me want to restart that, go back to it, to just push myself until I'm at the brink of fainting. 

I took a ten-minute break, then did 30 bicep curls, 30 stomach crunches, and 30 hip bridges, each one in three sets. I don't know. It's been a long while since I've done any of this; I used to work out pretty seriously (in relation to my near lack of physical activity now), but I just needed to. I couldn't stop. Or, at the very least, it didn't feel like I could.

I was too tired to keep passive forcing afterwards. That lasted until I got to the showers in the Wonderland gym, at which point I practically disconnected—being far too relaxed in the RL shower. I'd been hoping to work on my article submission afterward, but there was no god damn way. I passed out, had dinner, passed out again, and woke up today with an abdominal cramp that had me slumping until after breakfast. I think that was partially aided by the fact that I was fucking starving yesterday. I had to eat some granola and three handfuls of baked lentil chips before I could pass out a second time because my stomach was growling a couple of hours after dinner. 

Is any of this mind-blowing? Far from it, what makes it worth recording is built on this sole factor: I don't do any of this, not normally. I don't decide, on a random day, to get up and push myself to the point of utter exhaustion. Even now, just crossing my legs hurts a great deal. I can't bring myself to care. Perhaps it's a good thing that I do not have the wherewithal to do so; it might just be what is pushing me to ignore the latent doubt and tendency of self-immolation that tends to come naturally with all of this. 

Naturally, this meant that I couldn't do the usual narration yesterday; I did get a head pressure on the upper right corner of my skull again, likely in congruity with the lack of it. I'll try to make up for it today, after finishing working on the article. 

 

Edited December 24, 2025 by SpottedHope

[SpottedHope]

I've had the question of love on my mind lately.

I tried looking through more active tulpa communities, and I think, just as most people do for similar socialization, looked around for public Discord servers. I went through a number of them, just taking a quick skim—scrolling through the general chat first, and then focusing on the channels dedicated to tulpas and other thoughtforms specifically (filtering out the parts that do not relate to me, thankfully I do not suffer from DID or any adjacent conditions, nor do I think, despite referring to him with a Watcher's [a fallen one] name here, Sathariel to be some summoned entity). 

What I found were discussions, passing discussions, on topics that have been constantly debated and resolved, even just on here, at least a few dozen times, with what I like to call "objective subjectivity": that is to say, whatever complete resolution that may be achieved can be conceived of only in the sphere of subjectivity as formed by the asking individual's mental deposition. Some examples may be "parallel processing", visualization, personality forcing, and really almost anything that has to do with the concept and practice of Tulpamancy. 

I mention "passing" specifically, as I did not find anything that was genuinely focused or went on for long enough to be considered anything more than passing. I guess of further note here would be to mention the ye olde bullying/ elitist views of the "science-focused tulpamancer" folk are still in widespread play. In one of the most active servers, one person outright dismisses the idea that a tulpa/ thoughtform may have genuinely separate thoughts and calls a beginner delusional, tells him he's cooked, that he's too far gone, and dishes out the usual spread of half-insults that run the gamut of slightly more polite ways to tell one that they are a retard for daring to suggest the idea. 

Sometimes, despite all political correctness, I really do wish people would just say that word freely again, so that they would not be able to attempt to mask their actual point through online jargon; the illusion of their demeaning being less than, and moreso just laughable jabs that people can assuage as being more joking than insulting. 

This debate was being had back when I was frequently active here, and that was more than ten fucking years ago. I suppose the main reason I'm bringing this up is: If we haven't yet found an answer that fully satisfies everyone, why is this still grounds to call someone out as being delusional? Speaking -or, I guess writing- as someone who very much falls in the "it does not seem possible to create something that does not ultimately connect back into the same spring of sentience within an individual brain" side now, after about a ten year process of letting the concept of Tulpamancy cook in my mind; why do people still care enough about this topic to tell people, essentially, that they're stupid for thinking it might be possible? Especially regarding beginners, if this is the delusion/ hope/ entirely-idealistic-and-shorn-of-realism notion that is going to help them achieve their aims through suspension of disbelief, why are people still doing what they did to me and dozens of others like myself who were beginners, and who wanted, in their newfound dreamy enthusiasm, to test the limitations of this practice by themselves? When has bullying or demeaning others ever worked out in favor of both parties trying to compile their own views, in a public place, for the viewing of literally anyone who might be present in a fucking mass Discord server?

And in the rotten weeds and mismanaged cables and dusted bone-crumblings of my own self-perceptions, the aforementioned cooking process has led me, fully separated from any direct communication, to a much bigger realization: How much of my own sentience is even myself? For example, as I've kept up with passive forcing during language-studying, I've been having random words in Scottish replayed in my mind out of nowhere. Like some part of my brain wants to chew on the pronunciation of the words. "Siùcar", it repeats, in that half-dead register of the Duolingo recording.  I've dealt with language learning and practice throughout my whole life, and this is the first time this is happening. As such, I have more than enough reason to believe this is Sathariel, but even if it isn't him, as in the tangentially twisted clump of neurological signals that I am trying to consciously assign to this notion of a person, what justification would I have in calling some part of my unconscious acting out to grab onto a new word better; myself? Is this something I consciously meant to do? Is it something I even have any control over? No! So what reason would I even have in lashing a leash of possession around this happenstance? How much of one's being is the person that is formed as a result of the brain's self-perception, and not the meatmass given the worldly right of holding a mortgage over everything else that develops alongside that self-perception? 

I know I have a past in amateurly researching Orthodox and Tantric Hinduism that likely gives me a push in a certain, less than popular direction (as far as .info's goes), but really, what does it fucking matter?

Does anyone remember Mistgod? I do. I was one of the people he argued with on the topic of "tulpas aren't real!", way back when. I really wanted to believe, then, that I was creating something entirely different from myself, because, as I've mentioned in my post in the Returns thread, I hated myself and my life, too. I wanted an angel come from way above to save me from my redundant existence. He, however, even though I'd always supported his individual views and right to speak them, alongside his attention whore thoughtform, Mel, being allowed to do whatever she wanted to do on the site (within reason), felt compelled to tell me that what I was working on was a fanciful spark of my imagination; not "real" in the sense of tangible legitimacy, only as real as I made them in my head (as if there's anything more to reality than what can essentialy be boiled down to a show between one's ears, per the philosopher's wording) and nothing more. 

I was going through the Mass Departures thread not too long ago and read Mel's confession that the only reason they constantly argued tulpas weren't capable of having any legitimate form of "existence" was because they were jealous, that they felt like a secret they shared was no longer a secret if others also had other thoughtforms like Mel, that they weren't cool anymore if everyone else was able to access this phenomenon—at its core, they had been feeling lesser because others were successful at Tulpamancy: priorly cognizant of the phenomenon that Mel and Mistgod had never intended. 

It made me think, mostly, of love. Mistgod used to go on and on and on about how much he loved/ adored Mel and how Mel would do anything to gain others' love. Coincidentally (or perhaps not), the individual I mentioned who demeaned the beginner was also very much focused on this in other discussions: love, of loving your thoughtform, of making "something" that could get along with their host and others around them. Similar to Mistgod, they were also sexually inclined regarding this phenomenon, while Mistgod was never so visceral; he would talk freely about Mel being a part-time pornstar in his brain. The current state of tulpas and their relation to sexual matters, I believe, is something else entirely. So much porn. Random porn, mostly furry and MLP (naturally), incredibly niche fetishes, things that had me wanting to throw up. Not all Tulpa Discords are like this, but many of them are, hiding gooner content under a mere click of a button via a role handed out by Dyno. The most stomach-churning shit for me was seeing that so many people just AI-generated pornography or otherwise lewd pictures of their tulpa. Under them, I found the same individual writing out their thoughts, most of them about which one he found to be hot, which one resembled a fetish of theirs, etc. 

Have you ever spoken about someone you loved and/ or cared deeply about by detailing how you like to have sex with them in a mass Discord server, regardless of how you view their state of sentience? I don't mean just "for research", as in just speaking about "well I did this, and I have had X and Y results"; but detailing their kinks, the description of the act, and so on? Is this abnormal as it seems, or are a good chunk of tulpamancers just open fetishists, and I am just too old to "get it"?

How much of this "love" is just the host blowing up their own ego? How much of this is just an individual not being at home with their own sexual/ emotional nature and creating a pseudo-reactive outlet for it?

If this is love, no wonder I ended up with a thoughtform that started out as a Drukhari.

Edited December 26, 2025 by SpottedHope
Fixed wording.

[Bin]

LOL started out as a Drukhari that's equally funny and scary. I think out any Warhammer faction thats the one I'm most scared of.

 

Yeah I agree with your issues with the wider tulpa community. I would have also went Discord server hunting if Scarlet didn't tell me to not do that (because she hates the tulpa community and is ashamed of me for even interacting LOL). I mean, a big issue is this practice is so personal and, dare I say, borderline masturbatory, there really isn't much to say to each other! We can only spew words at each other and nod along, because none of it makes sense to each other, am I right? This community is basically a rage room where we just rant into the void and hope someone cares enough to pay attention to it. I share the sentiment about being a little weirded out by most of the people in this community, but, also, what else would they do? It's kinda like a dysfunctional family to me, it may not be what I want, but it's still perfect in it's own beautiful, disgusting way. I kinda even wish Scarlet would just be okay with talking to people and we could roleplay with all the fellow lonely freaks we want, but, she won't. Probably for the best!

 

Discord and Reddit especially are, like you said, the same thing over and over and over. Not even with tulpas, just with anything. I'm in a server for a game and the poor mods answer the exact same questions multiple times a day, like machines, I have no idea how they keep their sanity, haha. Oh, you'd think a bot would help, right? No, the bot is modeled after the most obnoxious character in the game (on purpose) and people constantly argue with it, which pisses the mods off. I gotta respect the hustle, at least they're enjoying themselves I guess.

 

Glad you're accepting your own thoughts aren't even yours! Once you realize that, it really helps out with a lot of things. Not even with tulpas, it's just a great philosophy to have that a lot of world religions have adopted over the millennia. I find that having contempt for yourself helps me out with that, personally. So many people romanticize themselves, think their mind is beautiful. Bro I HATE myself, I hate all this crap in my head, I'm more than happy to label it and take it apart and kick it around to see what it does. Absolutely fuck my dumb ass and whatever I think is cool or beautiful, no it isn't, nothing is beautiful on this god-forsaken dirt ball. And then people challenge that, "nooo but there are so many nice things! you sound depressed!" bro this is a fun challenge and I'm hungry to draw blood out of my own psyche, this is a game to me. Dunno if that helps you, but it does for me!

 

And yeah, love is a tricky thing. We both know affection isn't love, anyone can show affection to anything and then suddenly stop caring at the drop of a hat. I dunno if I made it clear in my threads, but, to me, to love a tulpa is to realize it's a tulpa, it has flaws, it's not going to be able to run up and hug you, it's psychology is going to be pretty weird and unreliable. And to radically accept their limitations for what they are, to me, is love. I don't care if my tulpa isn't real, I don't want her to be, I love her exactly as she is, every single flaw. She doesn't masturbate my ego, I put up with her, and that's what true love is. Sacrifice. And she returns the favor by being my closest companion.

 

Thank you for the interesting post! Sorry if I kinda word vomited, just wanted to compliment you lol.

[SpottedHope]

5 hours ago, Bin said:

LOL started out as a Drukhari that's equally funny and scary. I think out any Warhammer faction thats the one I'm most scared of.

Drukhari have been greatly watered down over time, though I remain staunchly loyal to their faction. Games like Owlcat's Rogue Trader have painted the most stereotypical, digestible idea of the Drukhari in most newcomers' minds—GW's own lacking efforts regarding any and all xenos species notwithstanding. Our 7'4" dirigible over here started as a thought experiment that tried to invert that, to see how the subtler terror of these soul-eaters may persist without the usual chicanery or baseline distractions of flesh and drugs.

Sathariel's unnerved multiple people as a character, proud to say, even fellow Drukhari players. You'd be surprised, though, it's likely not for any of the reasons you're thinking of. He's an Incubus when written as a Drukhari, constituting in essence the only intact portion remaining along the crumbling spine of Commorragh. There is no unnecessary torture, no bestiality with the mon-keigh; there is no playing with lesser meat. Only death he delivers and the deathlike meditation state in which he exists; of course, that is just one aspect, and not the one he is. He's grown far beyond that. I am not so suicidal as to try to bring that monstrousness into reality. 

He remains cold, though. His very core is so cold; the crystalline of a pulsar, and just as pure. I view him, metaphorically speaking, like a subsaqueous star in the Immaterium of my mind. 
 

5 hours ago, Bin said:

Yeah I agree with your issues with the wider tulpa community. I would have also went Discord server hunting if Scarlet didn't tell me to not do that (because she hates the tulpa community and is ashamed of me for even interacting LOL). I mean, a big issue is this practice is so personal and, dare I say, borderline masturbatory, there really isn't much to say to each other! We can only spew words at each other and nod along, because none of it makes sense to each other, am I right? This community is basically a rage room where we just rant into the void and hope someone cares enough to pay attention to it. I share the sentiment about being a little weirded out by most of the people in this community, but, also, what else would they do? It's kinda like a dysfunctional family to me, it may not be what I want, but it's still perfect in it's own beautiful, disgusting way. I kinda even wish Scarlet would just be okay with talking to people and we could roleplay with all the fellow lonely freaks we want, but, she won't. Probably for the best!

I understand where you and she come from. It's a commendable perspective to have. I suppose my main issue is not that the wider tulpa community is gross but rather hypocritical. I don't care who does what with their thoughtform in the privacy of their own brain, but you know, I've been on other servers that had a space for opt-outable 18+ material just like these, and known people there; in none of them were people ever this ready to objectify themselves or others. Yet, there is this insistence that they love their thoughtforms and care for them beyond measure, while in reality, most of the thoughtforms I've seen are talked about graphically, creating the impression that they are just fun mental sex dolls more than anything. Coupled with the general advice that seems to be more or less just "create a person you'll love/ fawn over", this whole thing starts to look weird.

It's why I was reminded of Mistgod as a result. It's almost as if this focus on "pouring as much love into your tulpa as you can", very similar to the approach that he had, is to mask the host's actual aim in fulfilling an emotional wound within themselves through (sometimes literally) masturbatory means rather than to enable/ help the creation of a thoughtform. It is very obvious to me in Mel's departure post that their system was suffering from just that. I wonder that and the shared lack of belief? Or regard? about tulpas' sentience that is also present in both cases is indicative of a greater trend here, but who knows. 

 

5 hours ago, Bin said:

Glad you're accepting your own thoughts aren't even yours! Once you realize that, it really helps out with a lot of things. Not even with tulpas, it's just a great philosophy to have that a lot of world religions have adopted over the millennia. I find that having contempt for yourself helps me out with that, personally. So many people romanticize themselves, think their mind is beautiful. Bro I HATE myself, I hate all this crap in my head, I'm more than happy to label it and take it apart and kick it around to see what it does. Absolutely fuck my dumb ass and whatever I think is cool or beautiful, no it isn't, nothing is beautiful on this god-forsaken dirt ball. And then people challenge that, "nooo but there are so many nice things! you sound depressed!" bro this is a fun challenge and I'm hungry to draw blood out of my own psyche, this is a game to me. Dunno if that helps you, but it does for me!

 

I am still full of hatred, though it just happens to be a more constructive kind than it used to be. It's enough hatred to keep most people away. I guess that's why I am back here. As masturbatory as you've said it is, I don't know of any other place to share any of this with—even with how little of it I do share. I feel that if I do not do that, I might actually go insane, though. I feel like I have to put it down publicly, somehow, so that there is the symbolic paper trail, at the very least, to go back to. 

I don't view any of what is in my unconscious as mine, really. What are some of the concepts that have formed Sathariel? The Eldar from 40K, the Elves from Fantasy, Daoine Sidhe from Gaelic myth, Old English poetry, and philosophy. Of which one of these can I lay any claim over, other than some meager personal perceptions of them that have blithely formed with infrequent sparks of raw emotion? Do I think they are beautiful? Sure, but so do millions of others. These are things that exist very strongly in the geist with or without my input. When I see them, read them, research them, they build upon each other in some unreachable part of my mind, like the faculty I've seen in my dreams. Even that is just an appropriation. Even that is not of my own will. 

I don't hate my mind, nor do I romanticize it; I simply don't view it as something I have any emotional possession over. Like all things, it is just there. In that manner, perhaps Sathariel might become even more real than I am. I formed out of what was immediately within this brain's perception, mostly as a defense mechanism. Sathariel forms, simply for the sake of being. I say I will build him like the Eldar used to build their Gods in the Immaterium. Those took the will of innumerable Eldar; perhaps this brain's insurmountably numerous perceptions of human history, religion, philosophy, and innovation will build one Eldar.

If all is Maya, then taking things at face value is as real as reality gets.

5 hours ago, Bin said:

And yeah, love is a tricky thing. We both know affection isn't love, anyone can show affection to anything and then suddenly stop caring at the drop of a hat. I dunno if I made it clear in my threads, but, to me, to love a tulpa is to realize it's a tulpa, it has flaws, it's not going to be able to run up and hug you, it's psychology is going to be pretty weird and unreliable. And to radically accept their limitations for what they are, to me, is love. I don't care if my tulpa isn't real, I don't want her to be, I love her exactly as she is, every single flaw. She doesn't masturbate my ego, I put up with her, and that's what true love is. Sacrifice. And she returns the favor by being my closest companion.

 

I agree with this perspective. I do believe that tulpamancing is a very intimate and roundabout self-sacrifice. It is also how I feel regarding my process with Sathariel. 

 

5 hours ago, Bin said:

Thank you for the interesting post! Sorry if I kinda word vomited, just wanted to compliment you lol.

No worries, thank you for typing this out and helping me to exercise further thinking! All of your word vomits are warmly welcome here, to sit right next to my word vomits lol. I also always read your posts and think they are very appropriate for podcast material, I just worry about being a bother if I were to type such thoughts in your personal thread :)


 

Edited December 26, 2025 by SpottedHope

[SpottedHope]

More of the same, but with different results. 

I tend to start passive forcing with Duolingo, so I did the same today. I'd been feeling slightly bad about partially neglecting forcing, as I haven't had the energy to really focus on the Wonderland, and that's usually what leads me to have the most productive forcing sessions. A couple of hours after breakfast, I got up to do what I'd already had my mind set upon, which was to try and have a repeat of the "gym" session. 

It was a wonky start at first. I couldn't focus, couldn't imagine the faculty, or the winding roads, or the mist, or anything really; clearly. I tried teleporting myself there, didn't work. Every image was just a slip of fuzzy image borders stacked on top of each other. 

I found myself trying to contact Sathariel in any way possible. I don't know, at this point, I was straight-up geeking. I tried imagining his room/ office in the faculty, but that was not working. I ended up just reverting to my own dorm room under the faculty, and instinctively reached for my phone to call him. I didn't receive any of this in words, just thought-intentions, but that came out to pretty much a "I'm somewhere else". That realization hit, and only then was I able to go back to being able to properly "see" the structure of the Wonderland: shapes, lights, shadows, colors, the temperature of the air; everything else. It was really strange how it all just sort of settled back in as soon as I was able to form that communication channel.

 

It all sort of formed in my head as I stepped out into the campus space and began walking around. Apparently, there is a separate space for the faculty "staff", which is in its own closed-off area to the east of the faculty.  I had to take out a guest card and swipe it against a reader to have the turnstile at the gates open and let me enter.  

Here, there's another gym building, one that looks nothing like the one I'd been in. I go in, and I have no idea what to do. I call Sathariel again, and I just go, "dude, where are you?"; it takes a while, but this time there's a "on the third floor". I find a narrow stairwell and make my way up there, and sure enough, there he is. 

At this point, we managed a short conversation about him being allowed to call me on the phone whenever. There was a detached "anytime". Not as in he was dismissing me, more that it was just "I'll keep it in mind". No incredible surge of emotion, no great enthusiasm. Just a calm sense of "fine". 

I got on the treadmill as I had already IRL, and when I "looked" over (something I'm still practicing, it's hard not to place an expectation on what should be happening in your mind's eye), I saw Sathariel. He was behind this half-blacked-out glass on the other side of the floorplan. At first, I was convinced he was running on a treadmill like I was, so I just focused on what I was doing on the treadmill to practice visualization.

It's been pretty cool, visualizing the Wonderland. When I really focus, I can even see stuff like light beams reflecting off bright surfaces. I was able to do that with the ceiling lights and the wood-panel flooring. Once I had gotten a really good spatial sense, I turned my head around and "looked" again. The whole space had turned into a fencing practice area; Sathariel was practicing with what I can only describe as a motorized dummy.

Now this isn't anything mindblowing on the face of it, especially because I'd already written him being a fencing practitioner into one of his several backstories, but my God, it's been such a long time since then that I'd legitimately forgotten about it up until this very moment. It's like he's been pulling these things out of my memories and piecing them together himself. I left the setting in which that backstory was relevant months ago. 

Similar stuff happened throughout the rest of the exercise. I got a call from him and answered, and I heard for the second time another random Scottish word: "Duilich", meaning "sorry", but more as in "pardon/ pardon me" in this context. Was he actually sorry for something? I don't know, he's done nothing to upset me. Maybe he just wanted to interrupt me, though, because right after that, I got a very strong surge of thoughts relating to his current iterations as a literary character. 

I can't go into much detail, but I can say this much, I think: he really wants to decide for himself if his character "selves" should be a romance option. He all but said "I'll be the judge of that" when the topic came up. I told him, it's all his. All he has to do is ask; I'll change the entire direction of a story if that's what it takes. 

I've also been having a great urge to sit down and narrate through some video games with him. I'll try to do that and write down the results for my next update here. 
 

[Bin]

34 minutes ago, SpottedHope said:

Similar stuff happened throughout the rest of the exercise. I got a call from him and answered, and I heard for the second time another random Scottish word: "Duilich", meaning "sorry", but more as in "pardon/ pardon me" in this context. Was he actually sorry for something? I don't know, he's done nothing to upset me. Maybe he just wanted to interrupt me, though, because right after that, I got a very strong surge of thoughts relating to his current iterations as a literary character. 

 

Haha, I deal with that every so often! Honestly I think sometimes a tulpa just feels the urge to kick something, not even to send a message, but it's just trying to figure out how to grow and move on it's own. Not to say you should dismiss it, it's important to notice that! But don't worry about feeling weird or concerned or anything if it was just noise, it's not like a false sense of progress or anything, just that, hey, sometimes they really do just need to say anything. It means they're growing! And the fact that you had an urge to think more about him after is a good sign of that, I think potentially what happened is you just got such a strong burst of energy from him that it had to be expressed somehow, like, having the urge to talk to someone even if you have nothing to say. That's fantastic progress.