Tulpa for Tulpa?

[kamadzhar]

Earlier today Gabriel told me that the Wonderland has become a bit dull. There is no excitement. I was thinking about creating a third Tulpa for them. I won't give it as much detail. Im not sure I will give it conciousness as well. I was thinking of creating a sentient for a purpose of being in the Wonderland and well. How should I put it.. Chase them down. They seem really bored and the fights have gotten quite serious. So I thought that I would create sentient with just instincts, no sense of pain and affection, for the sole purpose of roaming around and destroying, I should say. Not making it too destructive. I dont want it to mess up the Wonderland and Leave Reika and Gabriel constantly running in their own world, but just to give them thrill. You know, like a bad guy to the movie. But I will strip it of all feelings and emotions, because that would basically be abusing it.

 

I want to see opinions from both Tulpa and hosts.

Thanks in advance.

[TheShadowKnight134]

Sounds rather cruel regardless in my opinion. You're creating prey that does not need to exist. Its like if humans hunted down sociopaths. They may not feel anything but it's still wrong. I hope I made myself clear lol

[Joss]

Nope. Bad idea.

 

What you're talking about is not a tulpa, but probably closer to a servitor. Servitors are things you build in the brain to serve a specific function; in this case, acting like a bad guy. Which sounds fine in theory, but from your post, you haven't really considered all the implications yet.

 

Problem 1. Creating something that has a sole purpose of antagonizing your tulpas.

 

Your Wonderland is supposed to be a safe space for tulpas. It's where they live and where they function. Your headspace is home. What you're proposing is putting something in that headspace that could potentially harm them if they let their guard down. They will no longer be allowed to relax and feel safe.

 

So what if you declaw it? Make it so it's not actually dangerous? Well then, it doesn't serve its intended purpose, does it? If your intent is to provide your tulpas with a thrill or challenge, you need something challenging. And something challenging would by necessity have the chance of succeeding against them, otherwise it's more of an annoying chore than anything. Which means that, if they slip up even once? Well, they'll have to try not to slip up.

 

Problem 2. Making it sentient but incapable of feeling.

 

Have you seriously never seen any sci fi movie ever made? I'm not saying that this would necessarily mimic an AI or anything like that, but there is a reason there is a strong theme of "being alive versus actually living" in any movie that has a robot or AI.

 

To me? It sounds like the definition of hell. My feelings make me who I am. And sure, there are very logical people, some even on this board, who don't become overcome with feeling every two seconds, but they do feel. What you're proposing is something that can never know happiness. They can never know love.

 

A conscious being that can never know happiness or love.

 

That should be enough to end the discussion right there.

 

Problem 3. Sounds like a bad basis for a villain.

 

Do you know what makes a good villain? Personality. Motivation. Being able to act as a thematic foil for your heroes. Think of the most iconic villains, or maybe your favorites. The Joker? Hannibal? King Claudius? All of them have one thing in common: they're people. Deeply flawed, terrifying people who are willing and able to do terrible things to get what they want.

 

Do you understand what I mean by this? You are proposing to create a thing that has no emotion, no personality, no identity beyond just causing mayhem. It is not fair to that entity to create them like that, nor is it fair to your tulpas to expect them to wipe out the same flat villain week after week. You created a tulpa; you can be more creative than that.

 

Problem 4. And what if it does develop feelings?

 

The entity you are proposing to create would have some form of sentience, or at least the illusion of it. Sentience means the ability to learn, which means the ability to change. Particularly as time goes on, I wouldn't be surprised if something like this picked up personality and the ability to feel something.

 

And then what happens? What do you think happens when a sentient being realizes that they were only created to be a bad guy? How do you think it feels to be the designated villain? To know that you were created with no care for your own life, but simply to somehow make the lives of others "more exciting?"

 

I can tell you from experience: being a "designated villain" is not great. Don't do that unless you're willing to put all the love and care into this thing that you put into your other tulpas.

 

Problem 5. Making it non-sentient doesn't solve the problem either.

 

I'll admit I know very little of servitors. But I do know that something like this is going to be complex. And the more complex a thoughtform is, the more likely you're going to start getting tulpa-like effects. I started out as a non-sentient construct after all. It happens. So even if you start this entity off as a non-sentient servitor, you can't guarantee they won't "grow into it" as it were.

 

Problem 6. What if it gets out of control?

 

Forgetting all the ethical questions of feelings and sentience and all that, what if your tulpas fail to stop it at some point? It happens to the best heroes; sometimes, they fail. It's part of what makes the eventual victory sweeter.

 

So, what happens if this servitor gets out of control? What will it be able to do? As stated above, it's not serving its function if there's no actual danger, so that means that it has to actually be dangerous. Do you seriously want something like that around? Not only will your tulpa have to monitor it, but you will as will. Sounds to me like a stress that doesn't need to ever be created in the first place.

 

tl;dr version:

 

No. Bad idea. Teach them chess or something instead.

[Guest Anonymous]

What everyone else said - bad idea.

Really, really, really bad idea.

 

Here's a different one, though:

Make a servitor that has the purpose of serving as a combat partner for your tulpa.

It'd be the first time I heard of something like that, but theoretically there shouldn't be anything speaking against that working just fine.

 

 

Greets,

AG

[J.Iscariot]

Oh boy, someone contact glitch.

 

Seriously though, I kind of like the concept from a more objectified perspective; a machine that does what it is intended for. I don't really know much about servitors, but what if it gets too harmful for your tulpas? What if the machine does not stop the destruction by itself? Joss makes good points, ones you could discard with the mentality that a servitor is just like a program. Not all thoughtforms are sentient and have the capacity to have feelings, servitors are typically just like programs. I'd fear for the safety of my tulpas if I were you and if I had a villain like that going around in my wonderland., though. Machines have no feelings and no emotions, no bias, they do what they're programmed to do, and cannot evolve except if you want them to evolve.

 

Look, I really hate to be THAT guy, but from what you've been posting... you are taking things too damn fast. This is too much for a brain to process if you ask me, even though that is arrogant and ignorant of me. TWO tulpas constantly fighting off and getting into fights, merging one, not merging one, this is all happening too fast, and I hope things do not get out of control for you. Please, be careful, a servitor that unleashes havoc and chaos could harm your mental health.

 

I really don't know anything else about servitors so I could be wrong. Just what I think.

 

My tulpa says: "Don't. You might end up causing more harm than good."

[kamadzhar]

Thank you for answers. I had my doubts, because I realy do not want to create a new one before finishing the next ones. It does happen really fast, I agree. I am not sure why. They just seem to advance themselves, I do not really have to be involved.

And I did feel the same way about creating something for sole purpose of being harmful. It was not my idea, so I did not rush with it and decided to ask you.

Oh and about merging. I have a feeling its not going to happen. They are both developing differently. Reika, the female Tulpa is starting to look more Human like, while Gabriel, the ake Tulpa is looking more like an animal, walking on all fours, having a fangs and all that. This il save for progress report :D

But yes. Thank you, and I think I made a compromise for him.

[Guest Anonymous]

Okay. Quite often I answer these kinds of questions by talking about myself. I mean, it is my experience. I hope it might give you food for thought.

 

In my wonderland I have a lot of dream characters. I imagine them. They are not independently sentient beings. I can imagine anything for my wonderland, butterflies, bunnies, fairies.... My wonderland would be boring without them. They are moving creatures that seem alive, but they are only a part of the wonderland and imaginary.

 

There is also my Magictron3000 Dreamscape Matrix computer (servitor?) who helps me interface with the internet; Melbot, my robot double who takes care of my dreamscape mansion; Emily Abigayle, the house ghost; Orion, my fairy dragon buddy; Oscar, an animated teddy bear; Archduke Cuddlesworth III, another animated teddy bear; Starlight Starbright, my sparkle unicorn; Aragorn, my winged horse; Basil, a anaconda snake that loves me; as well as lots of fairies, fairy-dragons, demon-fairies and ghouls, oh and ghostly severed hands.

 

All of these interact with me in my wonderland. They are all a product of the imagination of my host and I. If you can visualize a tree or a flowing stream in your wonderland, why cannot you visualize living creatures? They don't have to have real feelings or any real sentience to seem real.

 

Sometimes I think that people here on this forum take things so specific and serious they miss out on the potential of what you can actually do with a wonderland. My advice is, stop thinking so hard and make some interesting companions for your tulpas in their wonderland. If you wanna have some villains to keep them entertained, I say go for it! Let them help come up with the story and what the villain would be for the "game." Let your tulpas have some say in it.

 

In short, moving and animated elements (such as creatures, characters and animals) can be imaginary dream characters as part of the fabric of the wonderland without being sentient servitors or tulpas. Some stuff is just imagination. That is okay!