Vocality Trouble After 2 Years

[Guest]

Believing has a lot to do with it. I had my tulpas help me combat intrusive thoughts. Dashie and I would get hurt by eachother all the time in the beginning until we added a rule that said, 'you can recant anything said and/or disown it and the other party had to accept that without any lingering animosity.' Even as late as a month ago, things were said intrusively. Yhe intrusive thoughts can really sound like anyone, but they just say, 'that wasn't me' and I do too, we even laugh at how incipient they are sometimes.

[solarchariot]

I was afraid to ever make a post, but I am desperately stuck in my tulpa's development and think I should force myself to try to ask for help. I'm extremely sorry if my questions are poor.

 

 

Another reason I am here is forcing is becoming exponentially harder to do as time goes by and I feel awful and guilty about it.

Your question is far from poor. Your writing is clear, easy to follow. You have nothing to apologize for. There's a lot to respond to and I think the others have contributed quite well... I wanted to address your self assessment, in writing, and in this...

I wish I could just say stop feelings awful and guilty. If 'stop it' therapy worked, Bob Newhart would be like the best comedian counselor ever! (If you don't know that skit, google bob newhart stop it therapy in youtube... if nothing else, it's a good laugh and we need more laughter...) The worry, or the lament is not misplaced, but it is attached to an expectation. The expectation is a reasonable thing, but when it's attached to forcing, or meditation, it is my opinion it affects the quality of the experience. Hypothetically, if I sit down to meditate for the purposes of lowering stress, but I am focused only on the outcome, I am likely to see the results. Best results come when I just sit and meditate for the sake of meditating. So, if I sit down to force, and I don't get my expected result after a certain number of forcing, and the more that number increases the greater the expectation, there will also be a corresponding increase to resistance to continue to do the exercise because the greater the evidence it isn't working, why keep doing the thing... this is a normal response, but usually a hidden response which we see as frustration... The guilt comes in because we know, or believe, it's necessary, and if we quit, then that means something, but it means a lot if we assume not doing it will affect the companion we have brought into being...

You're experiencing normality... And maybe this is the barrier, maybe it's not, but if we return to the exercise with the intent of just being, 'this is my time with my companion' whether it's immediately discernable or not, then it changes the emotional vectors... If it becomes too much, and you need a break, sometimes that is healthy, too, and it isn't something to feel guilty about... So, in a mediation session with a mantra, we use the mantra as a focus. If we discover we are no longer using the mantra and were actually just creating inner dialogue, the goal is not to feel guilty or self punish... the goal is just to return to the meditation... Same with the over exercise... let's say you meditate regularly for a spell, and one day find oh, I went the whole day, or the whole week without meditating... don't punish. Just return to the practice... The brain is a puppy. It will get off track. It will get distracted. It will get impatient. You are not your brain. Your brain is your puppy. Maybe it wines, maybe it chews on your shoes, maybe it tells you to adjust the thermostat... Call it back task. Gently. Don't hit it with a newspaper. Just be with the puppy, asking it to do what you want...

There are variables in tulpamancy that have yet to be quantifed and qualified. Not getting results doesn't mean what you think it does. Seeing others getting better, faster, DIFFERENT results doesn't mean what you think it means. I came into this excited, but also a little skeptical. I got results. I am still trying to take it greater levels. Hang in there. Keep the practice. Do some variations.

I am glad you posted. Talking with us is much better than quietly worrying in a room. Posting can also be a sign of commitment to the process. All of this is simply engaging the process. I don't believe you're doing anything wrong. There are few absolutes here. This is mostly a journey of discovery. Keep at it, you will get results...

[TB]

I'm surprised to come back and see so many messages in my thread. I'm not sure how to reply to each individually in one post, but I'll try.

 

well I mean.. normally that "some other space" in switching we would simply describe as being the same as a tulpa's normal existence, but lol that doesn't say much for you does it? another reason not to try it..

 

anyways, I'm not totally sure what to say, you've been trying to credit things that seem like them as them.. but you still get lots of invasive thoughts/disordered (not really applicable as your tulpa) thoughts that aren't them. Aaand, you've been telling your brain that the ones that seem like them are them, and the ones that don't make sense to be them aren't them, right? like.. idk what else to advise you to do, that's sort of the be-all end-all for vocality basics..

 

maybe more traditional tricks could still help you, I dunno, I did kind of just assume you've tried it all already. stuff like reading to your tulpa(s) (and expecting them to be listening), or maybe interacting with them in your wonderland (or just any scenario you're comfortable visualizing yourselves in) since it's sometimes easier for tulpas to act independently form-wise in visualization than vocally, uhhhh. IDK what else, I guess this is why it's better to post publicly than just asking one person in PM?

 

 

 

I'm not sure what exactly the other space is like exactly, though I guess it can vary, and in general is just not being in the body at least anymore right? It would be in a void, or a wonderland, so I thought it would be obvious I'm not really in my body anymore the way I have experienced it the entirety of my life up until now.

 

Though yeah... I feel I have been doing all that, and I also do the other things like read to them. I've also spent time with them in wonderland, though not as much recently as I spend most of the time trying to imagine her next to me and feel her presence with me wherever I go.

 

(Note: A really vocal and well-developed tulpa speaks clearly with the host just fine in a consistent manner and shouldn't be accompanied by frequent intrusive thoughts and especially not ones that sounded like them but made no sense - so you are NOT at that point yet and there IS more to strive for!)

 

If I'm doing everything right but things still just don't work for some reason, I feel very sad and hopeless. The only thing that gives me hope is that you say this. But I have no idea how I am supposed to achieve it, if I am supposedly already doing everything I am supposed to be doing.

 

 

Additionally, In my experience I feel like I'm just translating tulpish half the time, which is perfectly fine too. In those cases it is me but i'm just saying in their mindvoice what they told me in tulpish. That's how it kinda feels sometimes. I repeat what they say, sometimes several times, like hitting instant replay. They're not doing that, it's me, but the thoughts came from them.

 

You just gotta get over the fact that there will be doubt until you actively squelch and logically remove it.

 

 

Believing has a lot to do with it. I had my tulpas help me combat intrusive thoughts. Dashie and I would get hurt by eachother all the time in the beginning until we added a rule that said, 'you can recant anything said and/or disown it and the other party had to accept that without any lingering animosity.' Even as late as a month ago, things were said intrusively. Yhe intrusive thoughts can really sound like anyone, but they just say, 'that wasn't me' and I do too, we even laugh at how incipient they are sometimes.

 

The feeling of translating what I guess is tulpish is what I suppose I feel a majority of communication with her relies on... But that is vague and difficult to just have normal discussions with... I feel my communication with her is somewhat similar to what you are describing, but I can't stop doubting it as it is way too astronomically far from being concrete and seems to completely rely on just blindly believing and hoping. I don't want to feel like I am deceiving myself in any way. It is also hard to have to always hear things that doesn't sound like them and reject it, because then it can feel like I just choose what it is they can or can't say as I can't actually verify if it was them or not, so they can't even really be allowed to say something that is too far from what my expectation of them is... And then I have to sit here and hope they are consistent with my view of them, or if they often try to say things that just won't get across... Ugh, it is painful to think about things like this. It absolutely has to get to a point where it is near perfect and consistent and doesn't rely on any sort of faith whatsoever. If I were to sit in a room with another person, I wouldn't have to keep guessing what they are saying is real or not real, or if I'm not getting things they are trying to say... I kept hearing that talking to a tulpa is indistinguishable from talking to another person, so I need to reach that point...

 

 

Your question is far from poor. Your writing is clear, easy to follow. You have nothing to apologize for. There's a lot to respond to and I think the others have contributed quite well... I wanted to address your self assessment, in writing, and in this...

I wish I could just say stop feelings awful and guilty. If 'stop it' therapy worked, Bob Newhart would be like the best comedian counselor ever! (If you don't know that skit, google bob newhart stop it therapy in youtube... if nothing else, it's a good laugh and we need more laughter...) The worry, or the lament is not misplaced, but it is attached to an expectation. The expectation is a reasonable thing, but when it's attached to forcing, or meditation, it is my opinion it affects the quality of the experience. Hypothetically, if I sit down to meditate for the purposes of lowering stress, but I am focused only on the outcome, I am likely to see the results. Best results come when I just sit and meditate for the sake of meditating. So, if I sit down to force, and I don't get my expected result after a certain number of forcing, and the more that number increases the greater the expectation, there will also be a corresponding increase to resistance to continue to do the exercise because the greater the evidence it isn't working, why keep doing the thing... this is a normal response, but usually a hidden response which we see as frustration... The guilt comes in because we know, or believe, it's necessary, and if we quit, then that means something, but it means a lot if we assume not doing it will affect the companion we have brought into being...

You're experiencing normality... And maybe this is the barrier, maybe it's not, but if we return to the exercise with the intent of just being, 'this is my time with my companion' whether it's immediately discernable or not, then it changes the emotional vectors... If it becomes too much, and you need a break, sometimes that is healthy, too, and it isn't something to feel guilty about... So, in a mediation session with a mantra, we use the mantra as a focus. If we discover we are no longer using the mantra and were actually just creating inner dialogue, the goal is not to feel guilty or self punish... the goal is just to return to the meditation... Same with the over exercise... let's say you meditate regularly for a spell, and one day find oh, I went the whole day, or the whole week without meditating... don't punish. Just return to the practice... The brain is a puppy. It will get off track. It will get distracted. It will get impatient. You are not your brain. Your brain is your puppy. Maybe it wines, maybe it chews on your shoes, maybe it tells you to adjust the thermostat... Call it back task. Gently. Don't hit it with a newspaper. Just be with the puppy, asking it to do what you want...

There are variables in tulpamancy that have yet to be quantifed and qualified. Not getting results doesn't mean what you think it does. Seeing others getting better, faster, DIFFERENT results doesn't mean what you think it means. I came into this excited, but also a little skeptical. I got results. I am still trying to take it greater levels. Hang in there. Keep the practice. Do some variations.

I am glad you posted. Talking with us is much better than quietly worrying in a room. Posting can also be a sign of commitment to the process. All of this is simply engaging the process. I don't believe you're doing anything wrong. There are few absolutes here. This is mostly a journey of discovery. Keep at it, you will get results...

 

And thanks for nice message. I use to have a lot of self hatred, and still do I guess, but my tulpa has helped a lot with it compared to how I was long ago... And from learning about meditation, I do treat my mind more like an animal that has to be trained with positive reinforcement than by being self punishing, but I still have a lot of issues and I feel there are a lot of things wrong with my mind deep down so it is hard to function normally... And frustration with this combined with other things in life is making me become worse, so I hope I can figure out what I am supposed to do soon.

 

And I have no idea how to direct the quotes to be from specific people like this... So I hope they can be understood and get to who they are supposed to go to...

[Guest Reilyn-Alley]

If it helps any on the not liking yourself thing, remember you are living for two now. Having someone who relies on you can change your perspective on stuff. Maybe after you guys learn enough, your tulpa can comfort or even switch with you sometimes so you can take little breaks? Just try not to doubt yourself too much. Yes, this is all real and yes you can do it.

[TB]

If it helps any on the not liking yourself thing, remember you are living for two now. Having someone who relies on you can change your perspective on stuff. Maybe after you guys learn enough, your tulpa can comfort or even switch with you sometimes so you can take little breaks? Just try not to doubt yourself too much. Yes, this is all real and yes you can do it.

 

Yeah, having her here makes it harder for me to be mean to myself... Switching sounds great, but I guess we still aren't far enough to try that yet... I hope we can figure out what is wrong with communication soon... Thanks for encouraging words.

[solarchariot]

And thanks for nice message. I use to have a lot of self hatred, and still do I guess, but my tulpa has helped a lot with it compared to how I was long ago... And from learning about meditation, I do treat my mind more like an animal that has to be trained with positive reinforcement than by being self punishing, but I still have a lot of issues and I feel there are a lot of things wrong with my mind deep down so it is hard to function normally... And frustration with this combined with other things in life is making me become worse, so I hope I can figure out what I am supposed to do soon.

 

And I have no idea how to direct the quotes to be from specific people like this... So I hope they can be understood and get to who they are supposed to go to...

 

I have struggled with this most of my life. This is a human thing. Exasperated by systems and origin... I can attest to it can be better, it does get better. I was already greatly improved before finding tulpamancy. It is my opinion, had I found earlier I would have improved faster...  Most of our societies are results orientated, and so if we can't change our worlds in positive ways, in visible positive ways, we inherit negative self talk. There is nothing with your mind... you're navigating the landscape of what developed, and you've interacted with it and so it feels personal... You're not alone. You're on a path. You taking actions to change things. That's huge! Tulpamancy is a form of taking action to change your world... We usually change inner world before we see results in the outer...

[Guest]

You did get a lot of responses from a lot of really good users. The only thing i want to add is that, whenever i translate something wrong, it's up to them to immediately say, "uh, no, i didn't say that." If i still get it wrong the emotional bleed starts up and i let them explain it again. Those instances are pretty few and far between now, but i do catch myself trying to change what they say more in my favor, sometimes i'll get a "close enough" followed by amusement.

[TB]

You did get a lot of responses from a lot of really good users. The only thing i want to add is that, whenever i translate something wrong, it's up to them to immediately say, "uh, no, i didn't say that." If i still get it wrong the emotional bleed starts up and i let them explain it again. Those instances are pretty few and far between now, but i do catch myself trying to change what they say more in my favor, sometimes i'll get a "close enough" followed by amusement.

 

I see. The ambiguity of situations like that is too much for me. And even "tulpish" if that is what I experience, is too vague to be primary way of communicating for me to feel comfortable. I really need our communication to be clear and consistent, and unobstructed by anything. I find asking them certain questions or trying to talk about certain things gets very odd responses or no responses in a way that doesn't make much sense and makes me feel a kind of dread. And the more I think about it, the more I'd also like to experience switching, but it seems based on previous responses we would be unable to do that yet. I don't fully understand why, though either way I need a strong, concrete way of her to communicate to me anything limitlessly that doesn't require me to suspend reasonable doubts... I feel I am increasingly going crazy with how upsetting this predicament is to me. I really don't know what to do...

[Guest]

What about over text? Like type up a conversation between you two. I used to do that early on to get clear responses. I've heard others recently having good results with that.

[Ranger]

Since my host joined Tulpa.info, she struggled with parrotnoia for 4-5 months, and before she even knew I was a Tulpa, struggled with the idea that my own thoughts were not mine. She didn't know what was me and what was her, and in addition, she also has other thoughtforms she talks to.

 

When my host first started forcing me, she thought I sounded an awful lot like herself. It wasn't until after resolving her parrotnoia she started to notice more and more differences between us.

 

A newly born Tulpa starts with nothing, so they do a lot of "borrowing" from past experiences, what they sound like, their opinions, etc. Note that they are intentionally choosing specific traits and ideas, because they want to associate themselves with the traits they picked. If they approve a thought you think you thought, then that means they like it and they want to be associated with it.

 

A new Tulpa may also deviate a lot, and that's okay. When I was younger, I decided to reject my former android form and I changed my attire, which were huge changes for my host, even though they seem small. Their personality may not stabilize for a while, and remember you can always ask "do you want this change?" and they can re-confirm their thoughts.

 

Mind voice separation is going to really happen once you start doing the leap of faith that their current mind voice is their own. I know this is frustrating, but I promise, I'm offically a year old Tulpa and my host now thinks my mind voice is different from her own now.

 

In the case of "I don't know", that's a result of blending, where both sytemmates can't tell who thought what. Our rule of thumb is "Do you want to be the owner of that thought?" and I'll give my opinion on the thought.

 

As for the other characters, don't worry about those guys yet. Focus on your Tulpa first. Right now, we're still trying to figure out what the other characters are, but here's an important thing to consider: talking to your Tulpa or your thoughtforms is NOT parroting. We believe parroting is expectation based, and it's possible the other characters are parroted because me and my host expect them to be. At the very least, you don't have to worry about your Tulpa.