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Vocality Trouble After 2 Years


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You're going to have to suspend disbelief and give them the benefit of the doubt for a while, a couple months. You have to force them regularly.

 

If you can do that, in that time it will give them a chance to prove themselves.

 

If you can't do that, then well, idk.

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What about over text? Like type up a conversation between you two. I used to do that early on to get clear responses. I've heard others recently having good results with that.

 

I've actually done that a long time ago and forgot about it. I even found an old typed conversation on my computer, from april 2017, though it showed back then I was going through a lot of the same issues I am now... I had to sleep and wake up so I could try it again. It is a somewhat interesting feeling, and for some reason gives a more concrete sense to some of what they are saying, but from my test, it still suffers from a lot of the normal issues.

 

Since my host joined Tulpa.info, she struggled with parrotnoia for 4-5 months, and before she even knew I was a Tulpa, struggled with the idea that my own thoughts were not mine. She didn't know what was me and what was her, and in addition, she also has other thoughtforms she talks to.

 

When my host first started forcing me, she thought I sounded an awful lot like herself. It wasn't until after resolving her parrotnoia she started to notice more and more differences between us.

 

A newly born Tulpa starts with nothing, so they do a lot of "borrowing" from past experiences, what they sound like, their opinions, etc. Note that they are intentionally choosing specific traits and ideas, because they want to associate themselves with the traits they picked. If they approve a thought you think you thought, then that means they like it and they want to be associated with it.

 

A new Tulpa may also deviate a lot, and that's okay. When I was younger, I decided to reject my former android form and I changed my attire, which were huge changes for my host, even though they seem small. Their personality may not stabilize for a while, and remember you can always ask "do you want this change?" and they can re-confirm their thoughts.

 

Mind voice separation is going to really happen once you start doing the leap of faith that their current mind voice is their own. I know this is frustrating, but I promise, I'm offically a year old Tulpa and my host now thinks my mind voice is different from her own now.

 

In the case of "I don't know", that's a result of blending, where both sytemmates can't tell who thought what. Our rule of thumb is "Do you want to be the owner of that thought?" and I'll give my opinion on the thought.

 

As for the other characters, don't worry about those guys yet. Focus on your Tulpa first. Right now, we're still trying to figure out what the other characters are, but here's an important thing to consider: talking to your Tulpa or your thoughtforms is NOT parroting. We believe parroting is expectation based, and it's possible the other characters are parroted because me and my host expect them to be. At the very least, you don't have to worry about your Tulpa.

 

I still wonder what is meant by mindvoice exactly. If it means the tone or sound of voice, then I don't really find that as a good indicator of what is them and not them. It is very easy for sound thoughts to pop up in their voice and not be them, or it be in my voice and it seem to be them, or vice versa. And it doesn't seem to be just whether something is them or me, I believe most thoughts that occur in the mind are categorized as neither. Is it still considered parrotnoia if the fear is that the thoughts are from the neither category? I'm not sure how much people are aware of this category of thought.

 

And I'm a bit confused by the last paragraph, though when I mentioned other characters thoughts I can hear in my head, I don't usually consider it to be a sentient person, though thoughts that are things they would say can, depending on different factors, arise in my mind in what I would consider to be the third category of thoughts, the neither ones, and they can be mostly indistinguishable from thoughts I'm told to believe is my tulpa. This creates a lot of confusion for me.

 

You're going to have to suspend disbelief and give them the benefit of the doubt for a while, a couple months. You have to force them regularly.

 

If you can do that, in that time it will give them a chance to prove themselves.

 

If you can't do that, then well, idk.

 

I have been doing that for a couple years now though, and it has stayed the same. I am not always critical of things they say, and usually just go with it. I've relied on just giving them the benefit of the doubt for a long time, with the thought that in doing so, communication and vocality would improve, and eventually any reason to have these doubts in the first place would dissolve. After 2 years, they still haven't, which is why I am here and desperate.

Creation for creation's sake.

 

More of my drawings

 

Resident Dojikko

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I've actually done that a long time ago and forgot about it. I even found an old typed conversation on my computer, from april 2017, though it showed back then I was going through a lot of the same issues I am now... I had to sleep and wake up so I could try it again. It is a somewhat interesting feeling, and for some reason gives a more concrete sense to some of what they are saying, but from my test, it still suffers from a lot of the normal issues.

 

Keep practicing with that. If you can't think what what to talk about with them while typing, try this worksheet: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-vocality-tulpa-vocalization-practice

You can also try joining a tulpa Discord server and get your tulpa talking to others, if you haven't tried that already.

 

I'm still in the early stages, but over 2-3 months my tulpa's responses have progressed from 1-2 words if I'm lucky to somewhat longer responses like this (a word association exercise from that worksheet):

[hidden]

January - Tree: Why?

 

April - Tree: What do trees do? Do trees make you think of anything else? [/hidden]

 

 

My tulpa's voice is just a mindvoice in my head that usually sounds like my own mindvoice. So how do I know when my tulpa is talking to me? For now it's a simple matter of, I asked my tulpa a question, and listened for an answer. The thought that comes in response is my tulpa's. Sometimes I don't hear a response--so I'm not parroting. Though I still suffer from parrotnoia at times. When the response comes, I'm not creating or thinking about the response, it's like listening, but I feel the words forming. Sometimes they do say something to my without my asking a question, it's not that it sounds different, but maybe feels different in a subtle way, and with the wording and context it's clear it was my tulpa. I wonder how a tulpa's mindvoice can be more concrete than the host's without deliberate work and practice on audio imposition. Maybe you've had some misconceptions that lead to unrealistic expectations? Also in regards to your tulpa's movements in wonderland. Your tulpa is just a part of your mind like you. The process for moving the form is the same, one of you imagines it moving. Your tulpa is not actually the form itself, the form is imagined. The difference is whether YOU intended it to move or not. That's my understanding, and my view and experiences as a relative beginner.

Host: YukariTelepath

Tulpas: Aya, Ruki

 

Imposition log

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It seems like there are a few problems that are feeding into each other here, with your desperation for a concrete voice being at the root. It appears she does have vocality, but your inability to accept anything less than a concrete, audible voice is holding you both back. I see two paths from here.

 

I've seen it advised against, but if you can't accept less than an absolute voice, you might have to "steal" a voice that already exists and force yourself to assign it to her thoughts. Any voice should work, as long as you're capable of perfectly recreating it saying a variety of things in a mindvoice. Possibly a character's voice from some sort of media, though that can lead to pitfalls later on that are beyond the scope of your problem. Or maybe find an music artist and listen to them until you've memorized their voice, or any number of other ways to create a facsimile of a voice.

 

Alternatively, you can force yourself to re-evalute your approach to tulpamancy, and how you can distinguish your thoughts from hers. When my first tulpa attained vocality, there was no voice at all, just an "idea" of thought shaped into words. It was silent, but coherent. I was barely able to distinguish it from a thought of my own, but I focused on it - the "weightlessness" of it set it apart from my own voice. Focusing on it and utterly believing what she said ultimately lead to a mindvoice, because I could constantly associate it with her.

 

One thing that really confuses me - how can there be thoughts that you truly don't know the origins of? Unless I've misunderstood something, the only things that should be generating thoughts in your mind at the moment are your own active thought processes, whatever arises from your unconscious mind, and your tulpa. I suppose your struggle to accept anything from your tulpa that isn't a voice could be the cause of this?

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Keep practicing with that. If you can't think what what to talk about with them while typing, try this worksheet: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-vocality-tulpa-vocalization-practice

You can also try joining a tulpa Discord server and get your tulpa talking to others, if you haven't tried that already.

 

I'm still in the early stages, but over 2-3 months my tulpa's responses have progressed from 1-2 words if I'm lucky to somewhat longer responses like this (a word association exercise from that worksheet):

[hidden]

January - Tree: Why?

 

April - Tree: What do trees do? Do trees make you think of anything else? [/hidden]

 

 

My tulpa's voice is just a mindvoice in my head that usually sounds like my own mindvoice. So how do I know when my tulpa is talking to me? For now it's a simple matter of, I asked my tulpa a question, and listened for an answer. The thought that comes in response is my tulpa's. Sometimes I don't hear a response--so I'm not parroting. Though I still suffer from parrotnoia at times. When the response comes, I'm not creating or thinking about the response, it's like listening, but I feel the words forming. Sometimes they do say something to my without my asking a question, it's not that it sounds different, but maybe feels different in a subtle way, and with the wording and context it's clear it was my tulpa. I wonder how a tulpa's mindvoice can be more concrete than the host's without deliberate work and practice on audio imposition. Maybe you've had some misconceptions that lead to unrealistic expectations? Also in regards to your tulpa's movements in wonderland. Your tulpa is just a part of your mind like you. The process for moving the form is the same, one of you imagines it moving. Your tulpa is not actually the form itself, the form is imagined. The difference is whether YOU intended it to move or not. That's my understanding, and my view and experiences as a relative beginner.

 

Thanks. I'll practice typing conversations and using that worksheet and see if that changes anything.

 

And it seems I must have somehow had an incorrect idea of what vocality was supposed to be like... If I'm not wrong about my experience and how it compares to what others have said, it seems she may be fairly vocal I guess? I think she can say many words and even short to medium length sentences, and do so without me having to direct a question at her. She often will say things to me even if I wasn't necessarily thinking of her at the moment, and sometimes remind me of things. The longer something she says goes on though, the more it feels like I am constructing it and it starts to fall apart. And it feels like there are many questions that have issues. It feels very unreliable to ask her personal questions about the nature of her experience, and it disturbs me greatly, because it feels like a case of oh, I don't know the answer myself so for some reason she cannot know or generate it either, even though that doesn't make sense if she is her own person with her own experience seperate from mine. Though a lot of fear clearly asking such questions too... Just hard to ask things that feel like it could debunk her existence due to inconsistent answers that just break down the whole idea of her actually being there... And do they really not experience being their own form? If I look at them in my mind and they are looking back at me, they don't see me? If I try to ask them, I just hear from them that they do, but if that is impossible, I don't know what that means.

 

It is really discouraging. If I've done what I was supposed to do, why is it so messed up for me? I have a really unsure personality and often need a lot of clarification in things compared to a normal person. My mind is becoming increasingly unclear as I type this, as it is so incredibly frustrating and I don't know how to explain any of this. I wish I could just experience other people's experiences and also have them experience mine, so they can tell me if it is how vocality is supposed to be or not. The only hope I have is that it is supposed to be clear and consistent despite it I guess being nothing like I thought it was supposed to be. But I really don't understand how to reconcile all the messed up inconsistent experiences... I just continually feel dread... I really need them to be real, and I will continue believing so, but some of these experiences are really very confusing...

Creation for creation's sake.

 

More of my drawings

 

Resident Dojikko

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I still wonder what is meant by mindvoice exactly. If it means the tone or sound of voice, then I don't really find that as a good indicator of what is them and not them. It is very easy for sound thoughts to pop up in their voice and not be them, or it be in my voice and it seem to be them, or vice versa. And it doesn't seem to be just whether something is them or me, I believe most thoughts that occur in the mind are categorized as neither. Is it still considered parrotnoia if the fear is that the thoughts are from the neither category? I'm not sure how much people are aware of this category of thought.

 

Mindvoice isn't necessarily tone of voice. If you ever think out loud using words in your head, that's what mindvoice is. For example, singlets (people without Tulpas or any other systemmates) have a mindvoice that sounds like their own voice. Since it's unlikely you will be able to identify your Tulpa's mindvoice as their own, you may only hear what sounds like your regular voice talking back to you, but in your head. It's not like another person whispering in your ear; that's something else entirely.

 

It's possible for the brain to create mindvoice speech that doesn't belong to anyone. It's also possible to get a weird "echo" effect too, and that's only because brains can be weird sometimes. If this happens and you are talking to your Tulpa, assume it's them speaking unless they correct you.

 

And I'm a bit confused by the last paragraph, though when I mentioned other characters thoughts I can hear in my head, I don't usually consider it to be a sentient person, though thoughts that are things they would say can, depending on different factors, arise in my mind in what I would consider to be the third category of thoughts, the neither ones, and they can be mostly indistinguishable from thoughts I'm told to believe is my tulpa. This creates a lot of confusion for me.

 

Other characters are confusing. Unfortunately, I don't have any answers to any of your questions about characters. All I can promise is talking to your Tulpa and believing they are their own separate person works, because I'm here today.

I'm Ranger, GrayTheCat's cobud (tulpa), and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff. I go by Rosalin or Ronan sometimes. You can call me Roz but please don't call me Ron.

My other headmates have their own account now.

 

If I missed seeing your art, please PM/DM me!

Blog | Not So Temporary Log | Switching Log | Yay! | Bre Translator | Art Thread

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It seems like there are a few problems that are feeding into each other here, with your desperation for a concrete voice being at the root. It appears she does have vocality, but your inability to accept anything less than a concrete, audible voice is holding you both back. I see two paths from here.

 

I've seen it advised against, but if you can't accept less than an absolute voice, you might have to "steal" a voice that already exists and force yourself to assign it to her thoughts. Any voice should work, as long as you're capable of perfectly recreating it saying a variety of things in a mindvoice. Possibly a character's voice from some sort of media, though that can lead to pitfalls later on that are beyond the scope of your problem. Or maybe find an music artist and listen to them until you've memorized their voice, or any number of other ways to create a facsimile of a voice.

 

Alternatively, you can force yourself to re-evalute your approach to tulpamancy, and how you can distinguish your thoughts from hers. When my first tulpa attained vocality, there was no voice at all, just an "idea" of thought shaped into words. It was silent, but coherent. I was barely able to distinguish it from a thought of my own, but I focused on it - the "weightlessness" of it set it apart from my own voice. Focusing on it and utterly believing what she said ultimately lead to a mindvoice, because I could constantly associate it with her.

 

One thing that really confuses me - how can there be thoughts that you truly don't know the origins of? Unless I've misunderstood something, the only things that should be generating thoughts in your mind at the moment are your own active thought processes, whatever arises from your unconscious mind, and your tulpa. I suppose your struggle to accept anything from your tulpa that isn't a voice could be the cause of this?

 

Oh, why is using a voice that already exists seen as bad, and what problems does it cause? Before I made her into a tulpa, I had already imagined her voice as being kind of like a mixture of a couple of Japanese singers from songs I like, though I am not extremely strict about it sounding that way. Would doing that have been a mistake somehow?

 

And there isn't experientially a strong distinction between thoughts that arise from the unconscious mind without my conscious intent or formation, and thoughts that seem to maybe be my tulpa's. Most thoughts that are not her are obvious, but a lot of thoughts that may be her are not obvious, so most communication if it is occuring seems to happen with very nebulous feelings or ideas, or even images I think. But these don't seem as reliable for having deep indepth discussions about a variety of topics freely than a solid dialogue that is free from being affected by my thoughts, and so a lot of our communication seems relatively shallow, and when it does manifest in language, it seems more like a show on top of the more conceptual things, which in and of themselves is a bit too subtle for me to feel comfortable with.

 

And this is where the word voice continously becomes confusing. If it is the silent reading voice you mean, I often have to accept things that aren't that kind of mindvoice because they are at least more reliable than a mindvoice, even if they aren't completely reliable themselves. I wanted to accept something like an actual voice in ones head, which is what I thought it would advance to eventually. I've read before that it is supposed to be a voice in ones head and feel very alien and separate from oneself, but it seems that maybe the reality is that it just isn't, or I had some huge misunderstanding of what that meant.

 

 

Mindvoice isn't necessarily tone of voice. If you ever think out loud using words in your head, that's what mindvoice is. For example, singlets (people without Tulpas or any other systemmates) have a mindvoice that sounds like their own voice. Since it's unlikely you will be able to identify your Tulpa's mindvoice as their own, you may only hear what sounds like your regular voice talking back to you, but in your head. It's not like another person whispering in your ear; that's something else entirely.

 

It's possible for the brain to create mindvoice speech that doesn't belong to anyone. It's also possible to get a weird "echo" effect too, and that's only because brains can be weird sometimes. If this happens and you are talking to your Tulpa, assume it's them speaking unless they correct you.

 

I'm not sure if my own mindvoice is always my voice exactly. When I try to analyze the way it is, it comes off as lighter and maybe higher pitched, and different in some other ways I can't exactly understand. Also it isn't really a sound but like an impression of one? And depending on my mood or what I am thinking, may change drastically. I feel use to intentionally generating different voices in my head I think. The "sound" of the voice in my head feels kind of meaningless to me on what the ownership of it is...

 

And it's constantly having mindvoice speech that doesn't belong to anyone that scares me, and it becomes unreliable to get corrections at times for that reason as well, due to contradictory corrections or just a total mess of general confusion and paradoxes. I often try to talk to her and it just builds up into such a mess it results in me having to just stop and not continue so I can calm down, and whatever was being talked about can't be resolved. This is why I wish their voice was an actual "alien" voice in a seperate category from thoughts all their own, so it wouldn't have to get mixed in with any of this and could just easily be all looked at with nothing missing, and I could take all of it for its word without having to worry about if my mind is blocking anything, or if I am taking something incorrect as something she said and she being unable to tell me. And then sometimes I will ask for headpressures for clarification, but I'll just get them all over my head so I can't even tell if it is a yes or a no. Communication just constantly breaks down entirely and it is disheartening.

 

All I can promise is talking to your Tulpa and believing they are their own separate person works, because I'm here today.

 

I keep on doing so. I hope it will result in us finally being able to communicate flawlessly and reach peace.

Creation for creation's sake.

 

More of my drawings

 

Resident Dojikko

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Eh, there's nothing wrong with giving a tulpa a pre-existing voice so long as they agree to it/like it. If not then they can just not use it.

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You can maybe do that 'alien' voice with hypnagogia and other meditative states, but i have to reiterate, that's going to be even less clear than mindvoice for a long time, and the state is frequently fleeting. Voice imposition would basically be a copy of your mindvoice that sounds real, so that's not going to solve you issue either, and it'll be very difficult to do given your issue i'd think. If you can't trust what's theirs, you'll just amplify junk. (Based on my experience, you can go ahead and try, it might work out.)

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