Vocality Trouble After 2 Years

[TB]

Eh, there's nothing wrong with giving a tulpa a pre-existing voice so long as they agree to it/like it. If not then they can just not use it.

 

Oh, okay then. As far as I know, they don't have an issue with the voice I imagined they would have.

 

You can maybe do that 'alien' voice with hypnagogia and other meditative states, but i have to reiterate, that's going to be even less clear than mindvoice for a long time, and the state is frequently fleeting. Voice imposition would basically be a copy of your mindvoice that sounds real, so that's not going to solve you issue either, and it'll be very difficult to do given your issue i'd think. If you can't trust what's theirs, you'll just amplify junk. (Based on my experience, you can go ahead and try, it might work out.)

 

Oh. That sounds very disheartening. I thought once the skill was obtained, they would just be able to freely use it to communicate that way. I've heard voices before during sleep paralysis, but it is usually just disturbing, though I may have heard hers before during it too, though it is hard to remember clearly.

 

I definitely don't want to amplify intrusive thoughts or make them even become audible. That'd literally drive me to insanity and I'll be institutionalized. Aren't there people who regularly see and hear their tulpas everyday? Does the tulpa not control the hallucinated voice or form somehow? I feel increasingly confused and disillusioned. I don't necessarily need to see their form before my eyes and hear their voice coming from a place outside of me, but I just want clear and good communication... All those other things would be nice and I'd like to work on them eventually, but solid communication has to somehow be possible...

[Guest]

Aren't there people who regularly see and hear their tulpas everyday? Does the tulpa not control the hallucinated voice or form somehow?

 

Yes, but like us, we got vocality down first, it didn't happen over night, and yes, intrusive thoughts and gibberish can also be amplified early on. Now i can easily say it's so infrequent that i can't even remember the last time.

 

Solid communication is indeed possible, as easy as you can read dialogue from a book with your inner voice, only it's them reading. Ashley has even hypothesized me on a couple occasions. This seperation is the goal, but heck, it takes longer for some than others.

 

Do the writing thing, read her responses in her voice tone. I promise after 100,000 words or so, you'll be a natural. (No joke)

[TB]

 

Yes, but like us, we got vocality down first, it didn't happen over night, and yes, intrusive thoughts and gibberish can also be amplified early on. Now i can easily say it's so infrequent that i can't even remember the last time.

 

Solid communication is indeed possible, as easy as you can read dialogue from a book with your inner voice, only it's them reading. Ashley has even hypothesized me on a couple occasions. This seperation is the goal, but heck, it takes longer for some than others.

 

Do the writing thing, read her responses in her voice tone. I promise after 100,000 words or so, you'll be a natural. (No joke)

 

Well that's hopeful to hear, thanks. I'll do the writing thing and see the results. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by Ashley hypothesized you, though?

[Guest]

*hypnotized (oh man... sorry, i'm dying. That's a hillarious autocorrect word swap)

 

You'll be fine, it takes the right kind of practice, obviously everyone is different.

[TB]

*hypnotized (oh man... sorry, i'm dying. That's a hillarious autocorrect word swap)

 

You'll be fine, it takes the right kind of practice, obviously everyone is different.

 

Oh, lol. Well that's interesting. Thanks for the clarification, and help.

[Ranger]

If you can't tell the difference between your mind voice and noise, then go ahead and focus on that first. Once you feel comfortable with your own mind voice, then you can focus on your Tulpa's mind voice.

 

First, read the alphabet in a quiet setting without saying the letters out loud, but do it really slowly. Once you finish, go ahead and take note of your experience. You can do this a few more times of you want too.

 

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

 

You can also read these:

 

The brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet

My name is ____, and my favorite color is ____."

 

If you don't like the sound of your own mind voice, feel free to change it. It doesn't have to match the body's voice if you don't want it too.

 

If you are still having trouble, are you hearing other voices? Is there excessive noise? Write down what you experience and let us know.

[TB]

If you can't tell the difference between your mind voice and noise, then go ahead and focus on that first. Once you feel comfortable with your own mind voice, then you can focus on your Tulpa's mind voice.

 

First, read the alphabet in a quiet setting without saying the letters out loud, but do it really slowly. Once you finish, go ahead and take note of your experience. You can do this a few more times of you want too.

 

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

 

You can also read these:

 

The brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet

My name is ____, and my favorite color is ____."

 

If you don't like the sound of your own mind voice, feel free to change it. It doesn't have to match the body's voice if you don't want it too.

 

If you are still having trouble, are you hearing other voices? Is there excessive noise? Write down what you experience and let us know.

 

I'm not sure I ever meant to imply that I can't tell difference between my mind voice and noise. It's that I can't tell difference between my tulpa's mindvoice and noise, if noise means everything else that goes on in the mind.

 

My mindvoice seems to just sound a bit different than my real one, I'm not sure why but I guess it doesn't matter too much. I also sometimes think in soundbytes of other voices or audio, I guess some weird quirk or something. But it just shows me that thoughts from one specific source can come in many forms, and so can noise, including in the form of my tulpa's voice, even if it isn't her. The only reason I can differentiate my voice from noise is because I was there to make it and there is a strong sense of being the doer in those situations. There isn't really a similar mechanism to differentiate hers from noise, other than me just seeing that contents and context and deciding it is something she might say, and maybe some tulpish. But I have strong sense she can't communicate a lot of things to me due to various unknown reasons, and what she does is easy to get mixed up.

 

I plan to just keep typing my conversations with her and see what changes from doing that. I also really hope it helps with figuring out the issue about the existential questions I had earlier, as it is really painful to be stuck with those anomalies, like my tulpa potentially telling me she does something that is considered to not be possible. Like how is that reconciled? I can only just try to not think about it, but it makes it harder.

[TB]

I'm not sure how I should go about dealing with my experiences. I'm not sure how to ask. What is a tulpa supposed to experience? I didn't know there were things like that considered impossible or just not how it works, and I'm also very confused that it doesn't seem like there is full agreement on how things are, based on conflicting things I've heard that apparently go on.

 

I still am not sure how to judge my tulpa's vocality and communication abilities, but based on being told it is just like a silent reading voice with vague feelings added in form of some kind of wordless though information, it makes it seem like she is closer to what vocality is supposed to be than I thought, minus the frequent intrusive thoughts and other things that make it not obvious, and I'm not sure if they are not obvious to me due to personality reasons of just having a hard time of trusting myself, or if there is something experientially faulty with what is going on for me, or maybe mixture of both. That aside though, through whatever various communications I thought was there, how do I reconcile having thought she could do things that just aren't possible? If it isn't considered possible for a tulpa to look at things in wonderland, or be there by themselves, or if it is that it requires intense training, why would I have such an incorrect assumption without correction from tulpa about their experience... Should I not trust any of the communication? Or what do you think is wrong? Or is there something wrong with my mind and memories. I don't understand how she can be a person with subjectivity and experiences and not be able to share any of it now just because I feel I personally don't know what the answer is, and before I thought I did from passive assumptions and because of that it was just that way. Having this subject be brought up has really damaged my mental state, and I don't have anyone I can go talk to about these issues personally... I just want all the doubt to go away and be on track for making her fully developed and easy to talk to, and I feel I need some kind of therapy for tulpas now or something...

[YukariTelepath]

I'm not sure how I should go about dealing with my experiences. I'm not sure how to ask. What is a tulpa supposed to experience? I didn't know there were things like that considered impossible or just not how it works, and I'm also very confused that it doesn't seem like there is full agreement on how things are, based on conflicting things I've heard that apparently go on.

That's because everyone has different experiences. Our brains don't all work in exactly the same way, and internal subjective experiences can be difficult to convey to others. Some people thought going to wonderland while switched out was possible, and had the experiences to match--and some of those people later felt that the switched wonderland experiences were not happening in real time as they had believed, and proceeded to say it was impossible. I'm not in a position to say what is really going on for any of those people. I've heard one tulpa say she used to lie about being in wonderland when her host was up front. There are a lot of possibilities for what's going on.

 

I still am not sure how to judge my tulpa's vocality and communication abilities, but based on being told it is just like a silent reading voice with vague feelings added in form of some kind of wordless though information, it makes it seem like she is closer to what vocality is supposed to be than I thought, minus the frequent intrusive thoughts and other things that make it not obvious, and I'm not sure if they are not obvious to me due to personality reasons of just having a hard time of trusting myself, or if there is something experientially faulty with what is going on for me, or maybe mixture of both.

 

If she talks to you with words in your head, she is vocal. If she's limited in what she can say, then there is room for further development. By silent reading voice, do you mean something different than your own worded thoughts? Do you find your own thoughts vague/fleeting? I wouldn't call my/my tulpa's mindvoice 'silent' although I don't hear it with my ears. It's an internal 'sound', like when you have a song in your head, you can 'hear' it, but again, not with your ears. My reading voice is the same. 

 

 

That aside though, through whatever various communications I thought was there, how do I reconcile having thought she could do things that just aren't possible? If it isn't considered possible for a tulpa to look at things in wonderland, or be there by themselves, or if it is that it requires intense training, why would I have such an incorrect assumption without correction from tulpa about their experience... Should I not trust any of the communication? Or what do you think is wrong? Or is there something wrong with my mind and memories. I don't understand how she can be a person with subjectivity and experiences and not be able to share any of it now just because I feel I personally don't know what the answer is, and before I thought I did from passive assumptions and because of that it was just that way. Having this subject be brought up has really damaged my mental state, and I don't have anyone I can go talk to about these issues personally... I just want all the doubt to go away and be on track for making her fully developed and easy to talk to, and I feel I need some kind of therapy for tulpas now or something...

"Various communications" is a bit vague for me, I'm not sure if you explained in previous posts, but what did she tell you specifically?

If she claimed to do things in wonderland separately from you, like I said, there could be many things going on. She may feel she really did go to wonderland. She may feel she needs to tell you she did out of expectation, even if she knows she didn't. She may have actually gone there. I think you can trust what she tells you, whether it's true or not. I mean, you can trust that she talked to you and told you those things. And you can ask her more about her experiences. Like with any person.

[TB]

That's because everyone has different experiences. Our brains don't all work in exactly the same way, and internal subjective experiences can be difficult to convey to others. Some people thought going to wonderland while switched out was possible, and had the experiences to match--and some of those people later felt that the switched wonderland experiences were not happening in real time as they had believed, and proceeded to say it was impossible. I'm not in a position to say what is really going on for any of those people. I've heard one tulpa say she used to lie about being in wonderland when her host was up front. There are a lot of possibilities for what's going on.

 

If she talks to you with words in your head, she is vocal. If she's limited in what she can say, then there is room for further development.

 

It is extremely difficult to convey things and also interpret from others... I still feel paranoid if I am not interpreting my experiences correctly and whatever I think may be her talking is actually something else. I can't tell if I experience the same thing as others, but where others see it as obvious I just don't see it that way, or if my experience is different than others and is one that would not be seen as obvious by anyone. I really hate not knowing for sure and wish I knew what to do about it.

 

 

By silent reading voice, do you mean something different than your own worded thoughts? Do you find your own thoughts vague/fleeting? I wouldn't call my/my tulpa's mindvoice 'silent' although I don't hear it with my ears. It's an internal 'sound', like when you have a song in your head, you can 'hear' it, but again, not with your ears. My reading voice is the same.

 

When I say silent reading voice I think we mean the same thing. Like worded thoughts or when a song is stuck in your head. It just feels completely silent to me, as opposed to loud and not silent thoughts that sometimes happen to me when falling asleep or in sleep paralysis, though isn't some kind of external noise hallucination. I guess I use to think when people had fully vocal tulpas, their tulpas mindvoice was like those loud thoughts or something similar.

 

 

"Various communications" is a bit vague for me, I'm not sure if you explained in previous posts, but what did she tell you specifically?

 

If she claimed to do things in wonderland separately from you, like I said, there could be many things going on. She may feel she really did go to wonderland. She may feel she needs to tell you she did out of expectation, even if she knows she didn't. She may have actually gone there. I think you can trust what she tells you, whether it's true or not. I mean, you can trust that she talked to you and told you those things. And you can ask her more about her experiences. Like with any person.

 

Various communications is kind of vague. I guess just besides mindvoice, also vague feelings or emotions or ideas, and also body language of her that may appear in my mind while trying to communicate to her.

In regards to whether she can see what she is looking at internally or if she is forced to only be capable of seeing what I am imagining, like if we look at each other mentally, she seemed to say in mindvoice several times that she sees me when I look at her. At least what I think I've been taught I am supposed to interpret as her did. Once again I become paranoid if I am just incredibly stupid and have no idea what is going on or what, so it is frustrating. This is why I had thought and hoped that experiencing a tulpa talking to you would be very distinct from experience of just thinking to yourself. If their voice is just the same kind of mindvoice anyone generates when thinking words, it becomes really hard, no matter what the sound of the voice is. If it was impossible to generate internal dialogue in a voice different to one's own, and a tulpa talked in a different voice, I could understand how that is sufficient, but thoughts in different voices can arise easily all the time, so it doesn't really mean anything.

And it is hard to ask her about her experiences now without just her not knowing or not answering. It just feels like a lot of blankness and stress.

 

And just now in order to test something, I meditated shortly and then tried having a conversation with Vegeta. Not a tulpa or anything I have forced, just literally Vegeta from Dragonball. I can say things to him, and immediately get responses in his voice that I'm not generating myself, at least not deliberately. Experientially speaking, it isn't too incredibly different than it is to talk to my tulpa. Everything is very similar, even with the wordless thought information that supplies meaning to what he is saying whenever his voice occasionally just kind of fails, and the seeing him in my head and reading his body language. I'm not about to say I have a tulpa of Vegeta, so what is this? And what is supposed to make a tulpa distinct? There are some subtle differences to interacting with my actual tulpa I think, but it is very hard to say what, and I don't know if it is just from my actual tulpa being a different person and the strong emotional attachment I have to her.