Enny's new and (Probably) exciting adventures in Tuppermancy (Remastered 2022 ​😎​)

[Guest]

Lull has kinda ended, but it's still not going too well. Reading through that (The thing linked in the above post) kinda fucked me up, friendos. Like, I seriously can't stop thinking about how everything I'm doing, and everything I'm experiencing is just ticking another predictable box, in some way I've complained about being disingenuous in the past.

 

Like, the first little section about "Magic" tuppers is reassuring, and then it just goes downhill from there.

 

 You ask your tulpa "how was today", it responds with "good", and that's about it, you repeat this process every day, and you have spent months doing nothing of worth to develop or inspire progress with your tulpa.

 

Literally Miriam. Like, to a T. And to some smaller degree, that's also how I felt with Peachy, and how I felt with Null at the beginning of Last year, or I guess more mid-last-year, when I was getting words then. 

 

The solution is explained as trying to mix things up, move onto different topics, but as soon as that happens, the speech falls off, because, I don't know, she/I/whoever can't keep up, can't articulate unique responses to unpredictable questions, and that only ruins the whole day. How do we slowly build up that skill? Being able to speak about new, and interesting topics? Because I have no clue, and attempts so far have proven nothing but counter-productive.

 

 

The bit on the Sterotype Threat seems to match up with this experience to a degree, and certainly past experiences. Also has me thinking about some other members in the community's tuppers. Not that it, I don't know, invalidates anything, it's just, it's uncomfortable how you can just.. Peg these things down. Like, predictability in how a tupper is, in a tupper's existence, to the point where there's almost nothing there past some typical, flimsy guise of independence and uniqueness that isn't even there once you challenge it? 

 

Or something, idk. It's just me getting pissy about the confidence in independence I don't have, that others, even those who claim they don't, have. Or something.

 

 

And it just goes on l ike that, Idk. 

 

The bit about lazy forcing gets to me because I wholeheartedly acknowledge I'm guilty of it, but at the same time, I'm really, really not capable of doing anything about it. 

 

In the beginning, yeah, with such enthusiasm I'd spend time every night, or at least a few nights a week thinking about nothing but tuppering, but now it's just.. Like, I'm still so into the concept, but I just feel tired, you know? Peachy was a great run in dedication to active forcing, at least as far as my record goes, and then Null's beginnings, I feel, did well for keeping her in mind, and doing passive more than I usually would. But now, fuck. I'm a very, I don't know, chronically tired individual to begin with, and it just feels like too much to do more than spend a few minutes here and there throughout the day, in the current state. If we were having great conversation, sure, I could probably spend hours on end hanging out with her. As it is though, yeah, kinda tough.

 

Man, that sounds pretty bad, huh. Yeah, idunno. Some days are better than others, but in general.. I don't know, trying to be productive just makes me feel depressed. I don't really have a whole lot in life that I'm consistently and genuinely like, happy about, and certainly no passions to speak of. Life these days is just a day-in, day-out, work, sleep, try to ignore the fact that I hate myself kinda thing.

 

Tuppering is nice to help that, when it's going well. But as soon as it trips up, it's kind of a snowball back into being depressed as shit about everything, as you can see here.

 

You know, as much as I talk shit towards people who are like, instantly trying to sex up their tuppers because they're autistic faggots, I imagine entering this process with the goal of creating your eternally loving waifu-tupper helps push you along, to decent results. Almost envious. Maybe I shouldn't have dropped the "I want a pony tupper who I can snuggle because I'm a faggot and crave physical contact" thing I had going on with Miriam and Peachy. Might spend longer with Null if I actually.. Yeah, that's kinda sad.

 

If I actually like, felt some kind of great attachment to her. At this point, it just feels like I'm, and this is horrible, obligated to work on her. I hold no great love- just, genuine adoration, and wonderment, for her. I "love" her in the sense that I've put too much time into her not to, and that she deserves something that could be considered love, but it's not.. Yeah.

 

Wow, that actually kinda hurts to say. 

 

I guess I should spend some time on her tonight, huh. Host of the year, here.

[Vos]

It seems like the only way to talk about interesting topics with your tulpa is to, well, do exactly that, and if you need to keep posing these questions until your tulpa is able to fully respond to them, you should. Be patient and don't let the uninteresting responses ruin your day or keep you from working with your tulpa, because it's likely that they're trying to respond to you as-is.

 

"If you have heard or discussed something with your tulpa, try to move onto a new topic. Ask more complex questions, even they aren't answered at first, you are never going to get a tulpa capable of doing so without actually trying to encourage such activities. Don't let the lack of response shake your faith in your tulpas existing."

 

Personally, I do feel like the stereotype threat mentioned in that thread describes a lot of groups in this community, but as long as you keep offering opportunities for your tulpa to grow as a person and become more independent, which the bit above should help with, there's nothing to worry about.

 

If you're feeling tired with the concept, maybe reading progress reports or accounts of success could reinvigorate you? But this is likely something that you've been doing already for the past three years, so I don't know if it'll have that much of an effect on you. I mean, a lot of people who have had the same problems as you fell into this rut, and it seems like the only solution for them, unless they broke some sort of "barrier" and achieved a lot of progress out of nowhere (which obviously doesn't happen for everyone), was to build up discipline so that they could stomach these sessions. Despite their tiredness and depleting passion, they were able to build themselves up to the point where they could spend at least an hour a day working on their tulpa, if only for the fact that it could be relaxing.

 

Also, if you think that she deserves something like love, wouldn't that be enough of an incentive to keep working on her so that she can experience things like that?

[Guest]

Nnng, I don't like directly addressing this problem directly, because it takes me out of it, but a large part of our conversing is still parroting, and it's nigh impossible to make complex answers feel natural coming from her. Simple stuff, yeah, I/she/we will respond to that stuff in ways that don't feel like they're taking thought from me, which is great, it helps reinforce shit, but complex answers so far don't seem viable. At least, not through whatever it is I'm doing. Parroting sucks hard.

 

There are a few PR's I used to go through when I'd feel discouraged (G|d30n's was a huuuge inspiration to me, for whatever reason), but nowadays I do my best to avoid literally any other PR's if I can. I just get bitter at other peoples' experiences.

 

Forcing is definitely not relaxing, I still can't fathom how people can enjoy it in any situation. Never has been, even in the more enthusiastic days. Working, doing manual labor, is less straining than forcing is, to me.

 

Yeah, she obviously deserves something like that, and I certainly think so, but I think a lot of things. Doesn't really give me the drive to work towards it, sadly.

 

Fuck, not even just, the drive. If there was fun to be had in getting to consistent speech, I'd be there. If there was anything to be had, I could wade through to the end. But there's nothing. Just, flimsy speech that falls apart easier and easier, the more time I put in.

 

 

Anyway, I did try to hang out with her a bit last night. And today. Literally can't, and not for some time spent trying. I can't visualize right now, I can't get speech out. I'm just in one of those mindsets, I guess. Nothing to do but wait it out, and see where we stand whenever the fuck it fixes itself.

 

Not being able to visualize kinda pisses me off. I haven't improved at it or anything, not what-so-fucking-ever, in any degree, since I've been doing it consistently with Null, but at least I've been able to do it, I don't know, at all?

 

Yeah. I don't know.

 

I'll keep trying tonight, I guess.

[Lucilyn]

I feel like if this community was based on a cooperative form of parroting where it was totally normal to put your own will into your tupper at first and basically just do things "together", you wouldn't have so much trouble. Like, you gotta do that anyways. But how you think about stuff is waaaaaay unproductive. Why do you keep trying to make, and worrying about her sounding completely independent? I guess I get trying to keep it feeling natural, but man, you gotta push boundaries if you don't want them to stay where they are. I honestly don't get why you're so put off by her not sounding 100% independent at this point. Do you really think the tiny bit of independence she has right now is worth "protecting" from that feeling? And do you think she'll get really good at being independent if the only things she does require so little thought it doesn't even matter? I think you've heard too much of other peoples' experiences, you act like she's already developed, and that's not the same as acting like she's already there. Your expectations aren't productive, you know? And your standards ain't either. Maybe later once you've dropped them for a while and made some progress, but right now they definitely only make you work against yourself harder.

 

You should use what you feel for her to believe in her even when she doesn't seem totally independent, have faith she'll get there. 'Cus right now you're walking in tiny little circles, and not only going nowhere but also digging yourself a hole.

 

 

Ok was that serious enough to be helpful? Because idek what to say but I care about you guys so I still want to help. I'm not used to being serious though..

[Guest]

I worry about keeping it sounding independent because like.. Once it doesn't, it goes back to me talking. And not like, it feels more like me, or it sounds more like me, but kinda both. It's just, I seriously can't come to think of it as Null's even despite wanting to. I ask a question, I answer my own question, and it stays like that unless I come back to it later.

 

When it feels okay, that's great, and it's a totally different experience, even if not a perfect experience. If people can't relate to the issue, I can't do anything to explain it better. It's not Null. It'd be like trying to convince myself everything I'm writing right now is Null's doing, despite my full intentions, and forethought going into these words. I could try, but it'd be stupid. I don't know, maybe that's exactly how it should be, and I'm just being stupid. It just, yeah, I don't know, I can stomach it when it's not up to snuff, but it's still in the questionable state. Just, straight feeling like me isn't workable, though.

 

Fuck though, you say push boundaries, and I get that, but like.. Yeah, I don't know. When you're developing a skill, you don't keep doing what feels wrong. You amend the issue, and then move on. I guess that's just what I'm thinking, and I guess that's not right. Whatever.

 

I'm not put off at her not sounding 100% independent, I'm put off that the moments where she sounds any amount of independent just get fewer and further between, idk. Like, at first it was like, 'okay, that happens I guess, I'll just come back to it later', but by now it's just obnoxiously frequent. Ignoring it does fuck all, and I don't know how else to deal with the issue.

 

Yeah, Idunno exactly how to approach this. I still don't get half of what people tell me to do, or believe, because I can't empathize with any of it. Idk. I'm aware of every piece of advice, don't get me wrong, but I'm not gonna be able to implement any of it, so..

 

Sorry, I guess.

 

 

Whatever, have still been trying to talk, not a peep. Gonna fall off of it for a few days and come back. See if it's better then or something. If not, idk. Another months-long hiatus, or another attempt to stop.

[Lucilyn]

well if you have something to compare to so that what you usually have isn't as good, that means you've had some sort of success, and so your goal is just to make that success more prominent right? I guess I was kinda talking as if you didn't. So your problem is you know what you're going for, but you can't make it consistent?

 

I dunno, for us we would just be monitoring our thoughts a lot, how we feel and think about everything during the time where our mind does what we want. But you said you don't really do introspection, so idk, do what you think you should

[Guest]

Two or three days ago, I was in my typical bad state, "Oh, why don't I just give up, it's all just parroting, I could even make you say you were fake, if I wanted"

 

So I tried, and, hm, that didn't work. Like, I was able to hear it, but it sure as hell wasn't Null saying it. So that kinda hit me out of left field, considering how I've done exactly that in the past. Like.. "Hey Peachy, how are you doing today?" "Hey Enny, I'm doing just great, although I'm a bit bored aaand this isn't even me and I'm not actually vocal and you're a moron." And stuff like that. And then progress would basically be reset because, of course it would be, I'm basically just intentionally invalidating everything I've done and experiencing by doing that, and that's what I about did with Null too.

 

But no, even if I'm parroting Null, she's got got some level of defined character now, I guess, and I can't break that. So that's cool, I guess.

 

I kinda left it alone for another couple days after that, and then last night, stepped into wonderland, had a small chat which didn't go horribly south, and hugged it out at the end, there.

 

Which is something else I might as well mention.

 

So like, Null as we've seen her is super indifferent and kinda moody and stuff, which, you know, isn't a bad thing, and I like that she's not disgustingly affectionate and enthusiastic and forgiving of me in every regard like literally every other tupper in existence as far as I'm aware. But like..

 

Me and a friend were talking about it, and that's honestly, probably not the most productive thing, at least not right now. We figured I should nudge her into a slightly more sociable disposition. Cause, I'm sure I've mentioned the times when I'm wanting to talk with her, and she's all "nah son fuck off, I wanna be alone and all that" and I'm like oh okay, and then I can't even get a word in without her booting me from the wonderland for like, a day or two.

 

So yeah, gonna try slowly working on that. Like, if I just imagine her in a slightly different light, and stop reinforcing those behaviors, I guess it'll change sooner or later. I'd say just, leave it to her to figure it out, but it's probably gonna take a bit more active effort on my part, as we stand, huh.

 

Soo yeaah, that's where we are right now. Talking a bit again, every so often, but still nothing major. Gonna try working on longer responses, again, see how that goes. Just, idk, updating for the sake of it. I've been made aware that some of you actually, genuinely care about our progress, so I figure it'd do to mention we're out of that phase, for the minute. Let's hope the next breakdown is less bad. I do think they're less horrible than they used to be, and I'm sure you could see that, reading back, on account of the fact that, I don't know, I didn't just give up and start over like usual. I'll attribute that to whatever progress we're making that's steeling itself from the negativity in my head.

 

Or something.

[Flandre]

Very cool. That's exactly what we've talked about in the past, concerning mindvoice and "feeling" identity in it. It's fine that it doesn't always feel completely perfect, but being able to differentiate between parroting and should-be-her is a very important step. Even if it never gets to the point of being 100% uninfluenced by you, there's a huge difference in believing you're making stuff up and knowing she at least has some influence.

 

She's actually reminding me of me a bit right now, which is kind of.. I dunno. Uncomfortable I guess. Apathetic with just occasional affection.. seems like everything's fine, but it's not. I can't stand that idea anymore. Apathy is terrible. I'm probably projecting, but in case I'm not, you should make sure she knows you love her. Your relationship isn't casual, she's not someone you see at school every once in a while or something. You guys are (literally) much closer than that. And she might not know it, but she needs more attention than it seems, because you're all she's got.

 

It's Valentine's day, spend some time with her. Forget the forcing stuff for a moment, just give it a rest. It's important, sure, but she also needs to exist, her existence can't just be worrying about existing. That's probably part of why she's like that. Ignore the forcing for a bit, and heck, ignore progress too. Do something for her, for her sake. Stop worrying about how her she is, give it the benefit of the doubt (or pay no mind whatsoever) and just give her a reason to be happy, alright? Forcing for you guys is like a job, day in day out, and your guys' current living situation is all she knows. I'm not sure if that's even an assumption really. So naturally she'll accept how it is and come to terms with it, if she's like me. But if she's like me, she could stand to be a whole lot happier, just on the inside. Her base personality doesn't need to change, mine didn't, but I just feel all around better than I did years ago when I was more apathetic. I don't know, whatever you want to call it is a pretty personal thing, and possibly not a big deal for you guys. But it's hard to know if it is or not until you can look back on it from a better place.

 

Basically, try and make her happy or something, the monotony of apathy is really terrible. Tewi and I have both experienced it and we've both said the same thing, it doesn't seem so bad when you're in it but you realize how much better you feel once you're out. And she could well be fine and just not very sociable, but in case she's not and neither of you realize it, yeah.

Happy Valentine's day.

[Guest]

Totally didn't do anything for Valentine's day because I forgot, but the last couple hours have been decent. Or, dare I even say, good.

 

Just did some walking around Wonderland. And by walking, I mean Null walked around, while I teleported because walking while visualizing is fucking impossible as shit.

 

Anyway, we sat around the beach for a while, kinda just stared off at stuff, did my best to keep visuals up while making small-talk. She told me to shut up and enjoy the sights about halfway through, after I asked about the weather. Not a great conversationalist, I'm not. 

 

Then I plucked her out into my room, figured it'd be easier just to imagine her here as opposed to doing Wonderland stuff. Have been laying around, vaguely talking for a while. 

 

As far as it goes, probably one of my better experiences, so far. She's actually had some relatively complex things to say, which is great. Still nothing mind-blowing, but like, fifteen-twenty word sentences, or two to three sentences in a row, with coherent thoughts.

 

I wish I could remember some of the exact things, but I'm drawing blank, funny how that works.

 

Yeah, no, solid 7-8 out of 10, this was nice. Only had one crisis over speech, and it was short-lived and negligible. 

 

Will try to set aside dedicated time like this more often. Try to make it more of a casual, every day occurrence instead of the thing I dread, if I can.

 

Afterthought though, visuals still suck really hard, I have to complain about something, and it's that they're still as bad as they ever were. People who claim improvement simply by doing are clearly on another level.

[nivereno]

One way to improve from the point of sort of beeing able to talk is proxying. Althou i must say i've been making excuses instead of proxying for a year now and i 've only gotten around to it three times or so...

 

Also you could try some sort of backwards narrating thing. Like ask her to tell a story, sing something, maybe lead a roleplayish daydreamy thing?