Enny's new and (Probably) exciting adventures in Tuppermancy (Remastered 2022 ​😎​)

[Flandre]

Our visualization improves from nearly non-existent to existent when we do it for a little while, like a few solid hours twice over a couple days. It doesn't take long to get back to the point where we can actually see each other, that is. It doesn't seem to ever get better past that point. Probably because we've never done visualization consistently for long periods of time. Anyways, saying it gets better with practice does not mean it will get good with practice. Just.. better. Though in our experience at least, the window for "improvement" closes very quickly if we stop, which we always do, for even a few days. We can maintain our meh visualization like that, but I'm pretty sure to get better we'd need to do it every single day, if only for a little while.

 

And glad to hear the rest.

[Guest]

I've considered proxying, Niverino, and I do relay some of the things Null says to a friend, which does help solidify them in my mind.

 

I'm actually about to start logging our conversations, or at least, the highlights of her responses in a journal, so I can look back on them.

 

But yeah, we'll make her an actual forum account eventually, and I'll have her start talking on there, if possible. As it stands, and compared to last night especially, it takes some coaxing, and very particular frame of mind to get decent responses out of her, but if we can push that along soon, yeah, we'll definitely do that.

 

 

Interesting account, Flandre. People often speak like it's something you have to work at, but the idea of not being able to have off days without it falling off is kind of a bummer.

 

Not that it gets that much better even after a few days of practicing it a passable amount, in my experience, but yeah, hope for future visuals is bleak. Imposition sounds downright impossible, which is a bummer.

 

But oh well, I guess.

 

We wound up like, partitioning the bed last night so I could work on developing presence, as well as avoid having to visualize the whole wonderland to pay decent attention to her. That was alright. Kinda weird, but it was honestly a lot less awkward than I thought it was gonna be. As a kid I'd often have to split the bed with friends when they'd come over, and it'd always be weird and uncomfortable, but there wasn't any of that with Null, which is cool. Good to feel at ease with her, I guess. 

 

Made small talk throughout the night. She eventually told me to can it because she was tired, which was fine, but I'm glad it was actually warranted for once. As opposed to, you know, just not wanting to talk.

 

Fun stuff, I guess.

 

Weird how it all changes at the drop of a hat, with me. I remember reading through my old PR recently, and there was a lot of that. Drastic changes in mood, and disposition, experiences and stuff, within two to three posts.

 

Weird.

[Flandre]

The blurrier visuals don't bother me at all, we're used to it. And we do imposition absolutely fine. Sense of presence > all other senses, including the close #2 of sight. We don't rely on re-improving our visualization to enjoy it at all. Impossible to make Lumi "practice" visualization, so we do what we want to do regardless of the state it's in. Honestly I feel like it only takes a couple hours to get decent immersive visuals again if we're really focused.

 

Just knowing someone you trust is lying by you can make it a lot more comfortable to sleep in the first place. Random friends don't count, unless you're a really trusting/friendly person like Lucilyn maybe, with good friends. Anyways, all good to hear.

[Vos]

There used to be a few penpal groups around here that helped younger tulpas develop through proxying, and I think the reason why this helped so much is that they were able to establish a relationship with someone other than their host without jumping right into a community full of people. I wonder if it'd be a good idea to have something like that come back.

[Guest]

Well, we'll have plenty of people willing to go back and forth with us should we decide to do something like that, I'm sure, so that's nice.

 

Certainly agree about sleeping well with someone you trust, so far, Flandre. It's probably the sense of presence as much as it is just, tuppering so excessively compared to what I'm used to, but sleep has been a bit different the past couple nights. I don't know about restful, as I'm still tired as hell, but I've actually, oddly enough, been dreaming a bit more. Or, been remembering parts of dreams a bit more.

 

Which is kinda weird for me, it's usually only a couple times a month, every two months, but it seems like every time I pass out,  lately. Probably just, all the time spent visualizing,  or something.

 

 

Yeah, still going pretty well. Haven't had more than like, one or two really questionable bits of speech singe we picked back up, and at that, the sheer amount of stuff that doesn't feel shoddy is really helping to push me through that. It's a very different experience than usual, I don't know what exactly changed. This is all kinda sudden.

 

Chatting at work as well, which is weird for me, I'm usually too focused on music and the job, but there it is. Mixed in with a bit of presence stuff,  it's not as hard as I remember.

 

As far as putting her in interesting and challenging situations, I'm trying to do a bit of RP stuff with her, at the moment. She struggles, but it's not thaat bad? Distinctly different feel than my RP characters, Null has, so that's good.

 

What else? She's not really engaging in unique topics herself, but I'll take her word when she says she just doesn't have anything she cares enough to talk about. Nothing else I can do, huh?

 

 

Have been doing many hugs, and such. Touch is still my best sense, so it definitely helps ground the both of us in one place. Kinda weird, but it's pretty much the most sfw touching mankind has ever witnessed. Man, at that, I'm such a shell of who I was, I don't even like, hug up on her in bed, we may as well be miles away. The Enny who wanted nothing but snuggles is dead, rip 

 

The fact that Null's a chick, coupled with her growing feeling of presence are definitely weird to process, but I'm still fairly sound in the belief that it'd be the lamest thing that ever lamed to put the moves on her. Like, fuck, I couldn't live with myself, lame.

 

That being said, will still hug the ever-living fuck out of her.

 

 

Well, that's all of my thoughts for now, I think. Things are probably the best they've ever been in my years of tuppering, right now, I'll do what I can to keep it that way.

[Flandre]

Have been doing many hugs, and such. Touch is still my best sense, so it definitely helps ground the both of us in one place. Kinda weird, but it's pretty much the most sfw touching mankind has ever witnessed.

 

We know it well.

 

I would say the same thing, about "interesting topics", if Lumi tried to talk to me about nothing. I have nothing "interesting" to talk about. But I like just talking to him, and at the very least we can talk about what's going on with him at the time.

 

Interesting that visualization/tuppering has improved your dream recall. I wonder if practicing our visualizing would help ours?

 

Otherwise glad to hear things are, overall, going well for you two.

[tulpa001]

Holy shssss-- What. Progress? YES!!!

 

And I had this huge wall of advice concerning all the things you could do to push through. *delete*

 

Um, I think you need a live chat session. It is the next logical step forward. Probably a private chat with someone who has a lot of tulpa experience. This is probably necessary to solidify the habits you are building, and her instincts.

 

Still nothing mind-blowing, but like, fifteen-twenty word sentences, or two to three sentences in a row, with coherent thoughts.

Hahahahahaha. Funny. How is that not mind blowing?

 

Tulpas don't usually engage in unique topics until they get close to "self forcing" levels of autonomy.

 

Also, hello Null! How are you feeling?

 

Visual trouble? Try image streaming. Also, fold more senses in. You won't like the other easy solution.

 

@flandre: Yes it will.

[Guest]

I'm not much for live-chat environments unless I'm good friends with the person I plan to be chatting with, so probably not gonna happen there. And if you were even considering suggesting the irc, hahahahaha no.

 

Image streaming is something I was very interested in around the time of its inception, but I found it was a bit beyond me. In its current state, especially glancing at the guide, I really don't think I care enough to read through and sort the details here to attempt anything, myself. Not to mention the fact that literally anything LZ writes is dry as a desert, and puts me into an immediate state of lethargy, of course. Definitely not to mention that. The guide isn't even written in his typical, really, really wordy fashion, but man, just knowing who wrote it makes it hard. Not that I dislike the guy, or have anything against him whatsoever, just, man.

 

Anyway, appreciate the reply!

 

 

There was something I wanted to go into, but I'm not sure exaaactly what it was, at this point. Hm. I'll remember it as I type, probably.

 

This last day was kind of eh. There were a few moments where it went really downhill, really fast, and I had to pull back and avoid talking to Null for a bit, but I managed to get through it, I think. Null's also feeling less distinct than she was, and "New and unfamiliar", is quickly becoming familiar, and it's getting easier to see exactly where the thoughts are coming from. Which isn't indicative of anything bad, I'm not flipping my shit, still talking, and it's still going relatively well, just, yeah. I'm starting to pick up on patterns in speech again that are way too predictable, and I'm starting to notice inconsistencies in Null's apparent train of thought which are slightly-to-fairly bothersome, but it's alright, not gonna stress on it unless it persists for an uncomfortable amount of time, or anything.

 

Watched Ford and Aury's new thing, and was a bit peeved at some of the things that could easily apply to someone like me. I realize that I'm an outcry and a half from most people, and my experiences, while not entirely unique, aren't common, but it does get at me how much people trivialize tuppering. Like, it really, really gets at me. Like all I have to do is think like this, and do this, and stop doing this, because it's so apparent. And I can see where people are coming from, and I understand exactly what people mean when they tell me things, because it makes sense, but if it were that simple, you know, I'd do it. This is the hardest thing I've done in my life. Bar none. I know a lot of people don't share that sentiment, or understand how it could be, but the past four years (give about a month or so) have been an uphill battle, and a very self-loathing one at that.

 

It's such a state-of-mind type of thing, it's not even right. The cumulative support I've been receiving recently has been a seriously incredible driving-force in my keeping on, but it's just that, the support, and not necessarily all of the advice. It's one thing to say you have to persist even when it seems like it's never going to work, because it's obvious you have to, and it's another to do it when you're feeling that. Hell, even now, there's no doubt that I'm still walking on eggshells, as great as my experiences over the last few days have been, and I don't expect people to feel exactly the way I do when I'm having trouble. Just, irritating, is all. I don't know.

 

I appreciate people in similar places to me, and I appreciate hearing about how I've inspired people to keep doing this, or to spend more time with their tuppers, or whatever. And it happens so much more than I ever thought it would, so at least I'll always have that.

 

I'm still incredibly jealous of a lot of people around here, for sure. I read others' experiences, and compare how I feel, and it always comes up short. Null and I have been doing great the last few days, and I'm beginning to appreciate her more than I have in the year I've been working on her, just in that time, but it still feels like I'm doing something wrong. I know I'm probably not, or that even if I am, there's no way of knowing because, yenno, subjectivity, and people will tell me it's just a mind over matter thing, so I guess I'm just, generally screwed in that regard. Which is fine, I guess. I'll get over it some day, or I never will, it doesn't matter right now.

 

There's still so much of me in her, I guess. What's really been helping is just, as well as holding onto those great feelings, remembering that yeah, even when I jumble the words, and she sounds standard, I still understand the intent, and feeling behind what she says. That feeling for who she is still isn't all there, but I think that even if I'm the one replying to myself part of the time, or even half of the time, we're still headed in the right direction. Which, yeah, people have been telling me for ages, I know, I know, but that's what I was getting at with that state of mind thing. I wasn't in the right one to really cling onto that ideology before now, and even though it's still not all there, and I still have to kick that little nagging feeling that it's not enough down, the positive vibes and experiences have been enough to give it a fighting chance, you know?

 

Yeah, I don't know what all I'm getting at. Kinda just jumping from thought to thought right now, I think. I Need to polish the things that feel different, if I can even figure out how. Null speaks too much like me, sometimes, and believe me when I say I have some very unique phrasings, and mannerisms, when I'm speaking in person. I get why it is that she'll speak like me, but it's still unnerving. Basic responses are still seeming to be the norm for general conversation, right now, and the longer responses are feeling more strained than they were a night or two ago, but we'll figure that out.

 

 

Yeah, I can't remember what I initially wanted to talk about. Whatever.

 

 

I've been trying to incorporate smell into the things we've been doing, tupper01, but it's not super reliable, or easy at the moment. Null's not super interested in food (I kinda work in a kitchen, so I've had a few opportunities to make sure), and I'm having trouble with aural stuff. Her voice is.. Finnicky. I'm fairly certain it's a kinda standard mid-ish female voice, but at times it's really high, or I'm not really hearing anything at all. It's hit or miss, touch and sight are enough for now, and I'd consider presence to be another one I guess, which is definitely being worked on any time we're spending time together. We haven't much been in the wonderland at all, these past few days, actually. Have just been having her sit on the couch in my room, or stand around me at work. Hmm, she doesn't like work. Doesn't like the people, nowhere to sit. Always getting walked through.

 

While I remember, let me take something I complain about incessantly and make it positive, for a second. If I'm parroting everything she says, formulating every response and throwing it out with barely a thought, then despite my complaints, I'm doing a damn fine job, lately. Because even when they're feeling standard, they're still getting longer. Longer than I thought I was capable of, even just a week ago. So it'll work itself out, yeah? Just keep this up, and it'll be great in no time. Will keep tripping up, sure, but I'll try not to let it keep me down.

 

Glad to be enjoying spending time with her, though, for once. Feels nice. I look forward to it during the day, and even though I've kinda been falling asleep ten minutes into our hangs the last couple nights, I still enjoy sitting down with the intention of talking, and spending time together. Just, genuinely.

 

Gonna cut this off here, this is getting long.

 

Thanks to everyone reading, thanks for the positive vibes, so on, so on. Means a lot.

[TheSanctuary]

Yeah! Go you! Seems shits starting to finally fall into some semblance of a line. I've been on the IRC myself the last few months but I suffer similar worries with regard to the whole parrot thing so haven't really given vixen the chance to talk on there much. Slowly opening up to let her participate a bit more now though!

 

I really hope this positive reinforcement keeps up!

[tulpa001]

Okay, but you don't understand how badly I want to hear Null.

 

Image streaming: the oversimplified version:

(1) Visualise something.

(2) Describe it to Null.

(3) Repeat.

Pretty sure it's mainly just a modified form of narration. You should describe Null to herself.

 

---

Eh, yeah, I totally understand the drifting voice thing. Voiceprint is super tied to our instincts of identifying people. Both me and my host have slipping internal voices. It is really annoying.

 

I believe that something like 80% of tulpamancers drop out in the first month. The survivors are biased. This thing is far harder that people think.

 

Oh, uh, don't quote me, but if she is mangling grammar and jumbling words, I think that is actually a sign that you are on the right track. That's a very tulpa thing to happen early on.

 

Anyway, I'll hold back on giving advice as much as possible unless you ask, but it is this itch with me.