Enny's new and (Probably) exciting adventures in Tuppermancy (Remastered 2022 ​😎​)

[jean-luc]

In my honest opinion, I bet the reason you may not have seen much progress is because you push hard on your expectations, not realizing you are holding yourself back from it. You gotta drop what you expect to happen. Just work and spend time, don't worry if they don't get unpredictable. The more you stress it, the less likely you will get anywhere.

You can't expect to have a fully imposed tulpa who functions on their own in a year of time if you always doubt them, while expecting them to. Heck, expecting an unusual response often lets you down if you know them well. Doesn't mean they aren't there, just means you know them well.

 

I'm not Enny but I can tell you this probably won't help, it never helped me. If it was possible to just stop worrying and stressing I would have done it long ago.

[Fairweather]

 

I'm not Enny but I can tell you this probably won't help, it never helped me. If it was possible to just stop worrying and stressing I would have done it long ago.

 

Right, easier said than done, but its something to work on.

[Guest]

Yeah, I've made peace fairly well with hearing the same things over and over again, and I absolutely appreciate it either way. Like, and it's to be expected, cause it's not like I'm doing anything different, complaining about a lot of the same things as much as I do. 'Just what people walk in on, and I really don't expect people to read this disastrously long PR and get through all of the posts where I'm talking about suggestions, or where people are asking me to try things.

 

I know how big a part of tuppering expectations are, which really, really devalues the whole process in my eyes, to be perfectly honest. I know that irks a lot of people, but eh. I do sincerely wonder if there are some people who experience a totally different, somehow more legitimate thing. People whose tuppers really do butt in all the time, and say things that are totally unpredictable all the time, tuppers who wouldn't go away even if you wanted them to. I'm sure there's someone. I don't know, though.

 

That's really all I want.

 

 

I might as well mention it though, just so I don't have an excuse to say nothing's been happening whatsoever, and so I don't have an excuse to shirk this all just because I don't feel like putting up with the boredom that is >forcing

 

So the other night, or maybe it was a week or two ago, I was just laying in bed, about to pass out. In, which one is it, hypnagogia? I think that's the one. Anyway, I was seeing stuff pretty well, and for whatever reason, found myself back at father's place. Was walking around, staring at things through my phone, because it seemed like it was easier to visualize a screen than it was to look at things directly. Anyway, give it a minute, and someone snatches the thing out of my hand, seemed to be Null. She messes with it for a second, pulls up a game of Galaga on it.

 

Which seems weird, right? But no, not at all. I completely shut it out and stopped visualizing because I didn't wanna deal with it, but the morning after, I remembered an event several months back, where I walked into the house in wonderland, and she seemed to be sitting around with a phone, playing, yeah, Galaga. No clue why.

 

 

So fuck, whatever tuppering is, whether it's me, or her, or both, some part of something in my head pulled that from the depths, despite the fact that I was 100% not trying to force, or even think about Null.

 

So there you go. I've been withholding that for a while, but for those of you that really seem to care, there ya go. I'll keep at it, maybe I should just stop being a faggot and stop worrying, like I did when I first started with Null.

 

And maybe I should start visualizing again. If you've been following for a while, you'll know I stopped because it seemed like visualizing made it too easy to puppet/whatever, so if I've just gotta take it, I'll take it. Fine. Boom. Started it back up. Waved at Null.

 

Null waved back.

[Luminesce]

Yeah, hypnagogia is going to sleep. Hypnopompia is supposed to be waking up, but people have decided to only use the former for both. I'd prefer "Hypnogogia" personally.

 

Yes, there are lots of people with tulpas that seem to exist independently of their attention. A minority, but they exist. AGGuy's Rina (and others, now) is crazy levels of independent. Full on new ideas formed while she's away levels. He also can't tell what she's thinking, and says she imposes herself.

 

Anyways, sure you might be in the same independent-persistence boat as me, but that has nothing to do with how separate of a person they feel. If you're wondering if having a tulpa is just pretending you thinking of what they'd do/say is actually them, it's not. Maybe you can force them like that. But their tulpa-dom comes from autonomy, and autonomy means you aren't the one deciding what they do. I do have to at least think of my tulpas for them to be around (which is an utterly effortless act, they're just automatically there, but attention is required nonetheless), but by no means do they feel or sound anything like me. You don't think all of my tuppering is just imagination, do you? There's some real crazy brain shenanigans going on that makes them real. And I can't "tell what they're thinking" per se, so much as when they communicate (including only with thought) I can feel the intent and meaning behind what they say. I don't experience them thinking, but I'm aware of their thought process when they speak to me, I guess.

 

But yeah nah, persistence outside of attention has nothing to do with how real your tulpa can be. That starts with autonomy and then continues with experience (yours and theirs). The more your brain gets used to them being them, the more natural it is and the more independent/real they feel. Something like that.

 

Not gonna pretend I can tell you how to personally achieve that, just saying that the goal is to transition from imagining their responses and actions to feeling them automatically (no or little effort on your part) to them being totally autonomous. When their actions/words start becoming dissociated from your direct effort, they start to develop their mindvoice (feeling, not necessarily sound), and it gets progressively easier to treat them like their own entity. For me, visualizing or imposing them requires my own effort, but what they do in that visualization or imposed form is up to them, and it could be said to "surprise me". They don't usually do anything crazy to actually surprise me, but I don't know ahead of time that they're going to walk over somewhere.

[tulpa001]

I know how big a part of tuppering expectations are, which really, really devalues the whole process in my eyes, to be perfectly honest. I know that irks a lot of people, but eh. I do sincerely wonder if there are some people who experience a totally different, somehow more legitimate thing. People whose tuppers really do butt in all the time, and say things that are totally unpredictable all the time, tuppers who wouldn't go away even if you wanted them to. I'm sure there's someone. I don't know, though.

 

Hey. What am I. My host will never be able to get rid of me. Also, she does not believe in expectations. I was not expected and my behaviour now is not a product of her expectations. We spend considerable effort checking the possibility of self delusion of any flavour. It is too important to me to know the truth.

 

----

 

Null, hold on.

[Guest]

Ugh so I laid down earlier, and decided to hop into the ol' wonderland. I'd say it brought back memories, but none were really made, I don't think.

 

Null was sitting on the couch, like she has been for time immemorial, seeming bored. About typical, as far as I can remember. So, I approach her, she seems to acknowledge me, I talk, she talks back, so on, so forth. It feels like it did last time she was speaking, which is to say, very not good, but I guess that's our new baseline. It's just the standard, bullshit, "I'm expecting it so it's happening", but it's a start.

 

I'm going to try to integrate her into as much as I can into daily life for the next while, see if I can build her up from someone that's a chore to make any real conversation with, to something that could possibly be considered a tupper. First thing's first though, and this is important, I need to establish a personality. I need to be able to hear responses in a way I could expect from someone who fits a set of traits. Bog-standard replies with no character at all aren't a tupper, and I'm never going to move forward in believing they are.

 

Problem is, and fuck do I say this a lot, I do not know how to do this.

 

We currently sit in a state where I'm probably parroting her, but I'm really trying not to acknowledge it. Which is why the replies suck. I ask, brain supplies, not great, but it's the best I can do. If I acknowledge this as parroting by intentionally choosing her words, it's over, I can't do it, and regardless of what people tell me, expectations don't make it happen either.

 

I still don't even know what I'd like her to be like. Someone real, I don't know. Not some fuckin', idunno, stupidly complex person who you could never meet in real life, you know? I cringe, so, so hard every time I see someone with a tupper that's just, so stupidly fucking edgy, or out of left field eccentric.

 

Just, fuck, I don't know. A real pal, someone I can watch movies with, and talk to at work, hang out with and read stupid fanfic with and to. Past that, I have no clue. What defines the things I want? How do I impose them unto her?

 

If I can't figure it out, it's dead in the water, because current Null is going nowhere fast, if the last time her and I were talking is any indication.

 

EDIT: And as an afterthought, I sure as fuck don't wanna project any stupidity or autism onto Null. If I had a penny for every time a part of me died as a result of reading about some really, really fucking stupid host/tupper story, I'd have like, 57 cents.

 

Like, okay, dear staff, if I ever come around saying Null totally wants to be in a relationship and it wasn't my idea, I swear man, she totally just brought it up one day because she wants to and not me

 

Then fucking ban me. Like, name is greyed out, can't view my profile ban. Like I'm awful with the ladies, but I'm not gonna do something so fucking autistic and cruel as create perceived life and nudge it into a relationship with me.

 

Under no circumstances do I want that. She can deal, if she legit does, although I really hope she's cool about it, and doesn't.

 

I guess this counts as nudging her in the opposite direction though, huh?

 

Whatever, yeah, just felt like adding that.

[Vos]

You just want someone that shares the same interests that you can be comfortable around, a friend, and all you have to do to obtain that is to try and view her as that now whenever she pops into your mind or whenever you're interacting with her. Think of how you'd interact with someone that you're comfortable with and try to act the same way around your tulpa, even if it's awkward and you're not getting much in the way of responses.

 

Sorry if this reply doesn't help!

[Luminesce]

We currently sit in a state where I'm probably parroting her, but I'm really trying not to acknowledge it. Which is why the replies suck. I ask, brain supplies, not great, but it's the best I can do. If I acknowledge this as parroting by intentionally choosing her words, it's over, I can't do it, and regardless of what people tell me, expectations don't make it happen either.

 

No reason you have to go the completely just-straight-up-imagining-what-they'd-say route. Optimally you rely on kind of intuition/gut feelings for what you think they'd say, if that makes sense. And yes, that can start out as "lame answers" because your brain's not good at automatically thinking as them yet. But remember, establishing their sense of being an entity/not you is really important to get the ball rolling. When you can really start treating them like someone else, and yes that means just "Not entirely sure if they're really there or I'm just parroting" (trust me, that point is a step along the way lol), everything else starts to fall into place a little better. You don't have to tell yourself it's 100% Null and no influence from you, but do tell the parrotnoia to shut up. Sometimes putting words in their mouth is an absolutely necessary step, and while I've seen some tulpas change their forms or names once vocal, I have literally never seen a tulpa be mad about what their host made them say through parroting. Like I'm sure it's possible, but I have not seen it once.

 

EDIT: And as an afterthought, I sure as fuck don't wanna project any stupidity or autism onto Null. If I had a penny for every time a part of me died as a result of reading about some really, really fucking stupid host/tupper story, I'd have like, 57 cents.

 

I know what you mean. Not that it's any real assurance, but it seems to be less mature people (literally younger) that let that kind of influence in. Once you're a bit older you're generally conscious enough of such things that you don't affect them too much. But anyways, I guarantee you it's possible. While not "stupidity or autism", Reisen managed a mindset and worldview utterly incomprehensible to me, at a time where I... okay whatever just read some of this https://community.tulpa.info/thread-do-your-tulpas-have-different-values-morals-and-ethical-standards-than-you?pid=159184#pid159184

Basically, I had no negative influence on her whatsoever, and I had a lot to give. If your conceptualization of who they are is solid enough, they'll be them. Sometimes it might be you imagining them and not them them, but it'll still be them. You don't seem to have a really strong idea of what kind of person Null is, but I believe that 1, you actually do unconsciously based on all the things you want out of making a tulpa, and 2, you have a pretty good idea of what you don't want her to be, and that should suffice to prevent out-of-character influence.

 

Hope I'm helping.

[tulpa001]

I still don't even know what I'd like her to be like. Someone real, I don't know. Not some fuckin', idunno, stupidly complex person who you could never meet in real life, you know? I cringe, so, so hard every time I see someone with a tupper that's just, so stupidly fucking edgy, or out of left field eccentric.

I'd probably say the same about any human edgelord. Keep in mind, people are always more complex on the inside. People wear masks to project a semblance of normalcy to the outside world, and only take them off with the closest of friends.

 

It seems like you are getting your hooks into her personality. Vent at her. Push her buttons. Tell her you are upset with her lack of personality. See what happens.

 

Personality is defined in terms of how a person responds to different situations. Run through some situations, and see how she responds.

[jean-luc]

I've always had the thought that tulpas sorta naturally are more eccentric because that attracts attention, and tulpas feed on attention.