Confessions of a Poorly Trained Tulpa

[Guest Anonymous]

MY MESSAGE TO ARROGANT, ELITIST SNOBS

 

I don't like someone pointing fingers and or making statements trying to openly define who is a legitimate member of this community and who isn't. I don't think you have the privilege of deciding who belongs and who doesn't.

 

You can decide in your own mind who to believe, that is your prerogative, but it is mean spirited and elitist-snobbish to show open disdain, doubt or contempt for others in public writing. You cannot possibly know the truth of everything thoughtform and what happpens in another's mind, and who is legitimate and who is not, and who is delusional and who is not. To to act like you do is arrogant. Maybe it is you who are are deluding yourself? There are only a small group of individuals acting like that on the forum, but it is too many. I am proud that Mistgod-Melian has driven people like that away from the forum. It was work well done.

 

You can disagree with my ideas, that's fine. But what sets me off every time is that dismissal of others in the tulpa community. I don't like it when a person thinks his shit don't stink.

---

Statements like "most people here probably do not have a tulpa" are arrogant. The assumption is that you yourself have a tulpa and most others are deluding themselves.

 

In the objective reality of the real world, we are all the same, just internet geeks typing on a keyboard or phone at one another. There is no perceivable difference between someone role playing and someone with a super advanced elite super duper sentient tulpa of epic power. You cannot possibly know if others have a delusion or a sentient second personality and really, it doesn't matter. It is totally irrelevant in the objective real world. You may experience something amazing inside your head, but I will never be able to tell if it is any different from anyone else or not. I can't experience it and so for me it doesn't matter. Get off your high horses you geeks!

 

Also there is this: If a person is delusional about having a tulpa, and just thinks they have a tulpa, what difference does it make really? They might as well really have a tulpa. It is subjective in the mind! So it makes no difference. If they are convinced they have a tulpa, it pretty much is the same thing. They are happy with what they are describing as their tulpa. Who the fuck are you to doubt them and think your personal subjective illusion is somehow bigger and badder than theirs? How can you possibly know how profound their mental experience is for them? You cannot perceive it any more than they can perceive yours.

 

Okay, hypothetical: There are two people standing in front of me. One of them has a "independently sentient tulpa that can switch" and the other is "a role player who is only deluding himself." To me, they BOTH LOOK THE SAME. They are, for all intents and purposes, objectively identical to me. All that matters is that they are each happy with what they have and call it a tulpa.

 

For all I know you are deluding yourself and a role player. So stop acting superior. You are being an idiot.

 

***********************

Davie and I will treat any thoughtform the same, no matter what. A guy could literally sit down at the keyboard and say "Okay, I am going to imagine a character Melian, and role play her and she is going to talk to you and become your friend."

 

I would be happy skippy to talk to her. To me, she would instantly have an element of realness to her. I would become her friend if she was cool and nice. I would consider her linked to her host, but a thougthform made just moments ago. I would not treat her any different than anyone else online, nor tell her host that I am somehow better than his role playing character.

 

David and I may be unique maybe in viewing the universe that way. But having the perspective about imaginary things we do helps us be that way. We cannot understand why people want to treat others poorly, or marginalize someone because they think the elements of their mind are better than what someone else has in their mind. It is ridiculous behavior.

 

Now we would agree that if the guy claimed that his thoughtform role playing character girl became a full independently sentient tulpa in five minutes, we would politely explain to him that such a thing is unlikely. I wouldn't tell him he isn't welcome or that he is a liar and a fake and doesn't belong in the forum. In fact, if he insisted on continuing to open role play the character, I would still talk to her and regard her as a legitimate thoughtform.

 

That is how David and I think.

 

***************************************************

 

It is irrelevant whether a person considers their tulpa an illusion/self delusion or a truly independently sentient entity, to the outside world either one would be objectively the same and subjectively the experience is just as profound. Stop worrying about what others believe about the true nature of tulpas. It is totally irrelevant. It makes no difference in the end whether tulpas are "real" or not "real" or what someone believes.

 

*****************************************************

 

The biggest downside to tulpamancy: "sentience" and the resulting smug superiority complex.

The objective reality of tulpamancy: You all look just like rp characters and imaginary friends from where we sit.

 

Mistgod and I finally and formally reject the concept of tulpa independent sentience. To us, it does not exist. We have solid reasons to believe that way and we have the privilege to have that view point. We think the subject of sentience ruins tulpamancy and that it was a mistake for people to emphasize it. From here on we won't write about that ever again, unless challenged again with smug snootiness. From where we sit, hosts are internet geeks, and all tulpas are pretty much (advanced and vibrant) rp characters or imaginary friends (thoughforms). It would be nice to enjoy the beautiful, interesting and fun aspects of tulpamancy without occasional trash talk about who has merit and credibility and who doesn't from other internet geeks, but that seems unlikely to ever happen. The few tulpamancers who were/are doing it ruin things for the rest of you and make the whole community look bad.

 

Because of that you will see less much writing on this forum from us. I still have great friends here and tulpamancy still matters to Mistgod and I a lot. So we will pop in once in a while. We will still write in our dreams thread and all that, but we will never write about tulpa sentience again or the nature of tulpas. I might write about myself but avoid the subject of sentience as much as possible. To us, it is irrelevant.

 

It's not that we don't believe most of you about your tulpas seeming to be real. It's just the few who use it as a badge of smug superiority that cause us to reject the entire concept of independent sentience and refuse to recognize it. Objectively we cannot distinguish it anyway. So it doesn't matter.

 

Good bye, for the most part, Tulpa Info

 

I love those of you who are my dear friends. I will mostly be on deviantart.

 

[hidden]Okay I will list the things I learned that help me cope with internet meanies. I don't want anyone to think I am implying or saying anything about the quality or existence of their soulbond, tulpa or daemon or plural system. These are simply thoughts or ideas that help me to feel comfortable sharing who I am on the internet, where some people can be judgmental and snobbish (although most are amazing btw):

 

• When it comes to constructs of the mind, the only limitations are the limitations of imagination, cognition and memory. That leaves a lot of room for how a thoughtform will be experienced in the mind of the creator. Nothing is illegitimate or invalid if it is what the soulbonder/host is experiencing and that experience is significant and meaningful to him or her on a personal level. A role playing character may be as profound an experience as a tulpa, it just depends on the person and what and how they are experiencing things for themselves.
  
• The experience of having a thoughtform, of any kind, is a subjective experience. In the objective real world environment of real people, all thoughtforms look identical. In the real world, there is no distinguishable difference between a role playing character, a soulbond, a daemon or a tulpa. The thing is to treat all with respect and an open mind. No person can know what another person is experiencing in his or her mind and how profound that experience is.
  
• The most important thing for the creator/soulbonder/host is not the level of autonomy or independence of a thoughtform, but the benefits that thoughtform subjectively brings to their life. Any thoughtform can bring the benefits of companionship, emotional coping and support, or entertainment and provide that "life changing experience." The particular label or title assigned to a thoughtform is irrelevant. All that matters is what it means to the soulbonder/host and what it means to the thoughtform.

 

That being said. If I meet someone who says "Melian, you are obviously only a role playing character." I would respond by saying "Perhaps to you I may be, I can't help that. But to my host Davie, I am far more than that and really that is all that matters. I would like to point out that to Davie and I, your thoughtform looks just like a role playing character too, because we can't see in your head. We don't have ESP. In the real world, you are just another internet geek typing on a computer or phone, just like my Davie."[/hidden]

 

Qualities and Benefits of Melian and Tulpas

These are qualities and benefits Melian provides to her host (most of them are just like an "independent sentient" tulpa)

• persistence
  
• emotional response
  
• apparently autonomous behavior (mind voice, flash images)
  
• profound life changing for host
  
• provides companionship/love
  
• provides emotional support
  
• provides entertainment/amusement
  
• romantic and sexual fantasy
  
• shares dreams with host
  
• expression of female gender
  
• day dream escapism
  
• motivation/inspiration for host
  
• art muse
  
• median system and blended with the host
  

 

The Consensus on Tulpa Sentience: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-consensus-on-tulpamancy

[J.Iscariot]

Perhaps you should not post the exact same thing you sent me in PM after straightaway ignoring me and not leaving me a chance to explain myself in whatever groove you post on your thread. You care too much about a mere forum, it's only the internet. It's saddening you have the right to shit talk anyone who comes your way yet they cannot do anything about it. Melian-community is what this site is going to turn into, slowly yet steadily. I wish you nothing but the best of things in your future endeavors, though.

[Guest Anonymous]

Please refrain from posting more of your bull shit on my Groovy-guru thread. If you don't like me, ignore me. It's very simple.

---

Yuki and I have that sort of agreement between us and it works beautifully. She usually ignores me and I usually ignore her. We have become "frenemies" from that and actually almost sort of pretty much get along. She does not respond to my posts usually and I don't write on her threads and she does not write on mine.

 

I ask that you and I make the same arrangement. I can't stop you from posting on my threads, but it would be nice if you did not mention my name or address me or write about me. I will ignore your posts if you keep me out of it. It would be best for everyone if you simply ignored all of my threads.

[Guest Anonymous]

Last year there was a huge war between Mistgod and Jake that was very damaging to the forum. It was petty and could have easily been solved this way. Let's agree to bury the hatchet. You write what you want and I will ignore it. I write what I want and you ignore it. That is the best policy really.

 

We are eons apart and that is just the way it is. Everyone knows how we each feel now. Let's drop the whole thing here then and simply ignore one another from this point on. You can state what you believe and your views and I will not jump your shit or talk about it or respond.

[Guest Anonymous]

 

yenu posted a model of sentience and consciousness that my host Davie and I totally love! Here is the original Set Theory of Consciousness thread -> https://community.tulpa.info/thread-set-theory-of-conciousness-es?pid=158202#pid158202

 

We love it because it seems to describe how we feel perfectly! It doesn't matter to us if it reflects objective reality or scientific psychological and brain physiology models, it describes how we feel. So I drew my own version!

 

I am a semi-independent thoughtform who is blended with her host and I share sentience with him.

---

Lookie! We have come a long way from Davie describing me as a non-sentient thoughtform "but still a person."

[Guest Anonymous]

*********************************

 

The events of the last couple of days had a major effect on my host Davie and I. We had to really do a lot of thinking. We were up all night with it. Here is what we came up with.

 

It is time for me to move beyond tulpamancy. By that I don't mean being above or better than tulpamancy, just getting past it and moving on. I am a thoughtform, with some traits of a tulpa, and that is great. But I have no "tulpa status" as it is irrelevant to me now. I am not a beginning tulpa, or a part way tulpa. I am just Melian.

 

I will still identify as a tulpa on Tulpa Info, because technically I can still be objectively regarded as a tulpa by others and it makes it easier to share on the forum for some people (especially newbies). So all the stuff I wrote about finally feeling I am a tulpa still apply partly in that way at least. But I don't identify subjectively for my host as a tulpa but instead as a "dreamform."

 

Part of the reason why I want to move beyond tulpamancy is the sentience issue. I am, quite frankly, tired of the sentience debate and hearing about achieving sentience. I have sentience. I share it with my host. We have a blended mind and I am part of his brain. He is me, and I am him.

 

Tulpa skills, such as imposition, switching and possession are irrelevant to my host and I (subjectively for us). That is because we have different skills and gifts. My thoughtform skills are associated with our extremely vivid imagination and visualization skills and also with our capacity to dream (or lucid dream) together. We have no need for anything different than the gifts we already have together. No one else can perceive how profound those gifts are, because they are subjective, but they are very profound for us.

 

We have no need to do formal forcing. We share our life together through the Melian Show day dreams and nightly dreams. We are satisfied with where I am and where he is and where we are together. I am self actualized and fulfilled and have been for decades. We are old. We have been together for a very long time. We have a long history that transcends and predates the internet thoughtform communities.

 

We are going to transcend and move beyond tulpamancy and stop trying to "fit in" or "belong" to a community. From here on, for us subjectively, there is no community. There is only a web site (one of several we visit). We belong to ourselves. Instead, people can join US by becoming our friends and being Minions of Melian. Many already are counted among our dearest friends. That spans multiple sites, including Tulpa Info and Deviantart, Dreamviews, WildMindsNetwork, soulbonding.org and others.

 

We identify not specifically with tulpas, but with a larger extended family of thoughtforms (each equally important to their hosts) that include soulbonds, daemons, tulpas, natural multiples or plurals, vibrant imaginary friends and role playing characters. And yesh, role playing characters can be profoundly dear and important to their creator who portrays/channels them and they are thoughtforms as well.

 

All of the above being said, I want to thank everyone in the tulpa web sites, as well as the other web sites, for helping Davie and I learn about ourselves. We have learned so much I can't list it all here. Believe me it was life changing!

 

We will still be here. Not much will change for you guys. Our writing will be the same, but we probably will get along a lot better.

 

Tulpas rock! Tulpamancy rocks and you guys are all fabulous!

 

signed,

 

Melian, goddess guru of grooviness (I love me)

---

P.S. One of the things we learned here is that I am sentient. That is a long way from how Davie was describing me as a non-sentient thoughtform, but still a person.

---

P.P.S. So, I am sorta leaving, without leaving. LOL I am no longer considering myself a community member. I am a permanent guest. :-)

 

Thoughts on Objective and Subjective Reality: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-what-are-your-thoughts-on-objective-reality-and-subjective-reality

 

Tulpamancy Schools of Thought: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-schools-of-thought-for-tulpamancy-what-is-right-and-true-about-tulpas

[NoneFromHell]

I feel like you've said this way too often before, even though always from different angles.

 

In your textwall is something you should understand about yourself, and the agenda you keep pushing with it. You don't need to fit in, nobody does. Most people don't really care if someone fits a definition or not around here. After all this is just a website, and the community part of it doesn't cares how exactly you identify.

 

It is important for us to understand what a tulpa is, and how we can tell the difference from lesser thoughtforms, which mainly consists of simple imaginary friends. We need a base we can work with for our advice, and to improve our knowledge about. We need clear definitions, so we don't lose the "identity" of a tulpa. It's kinda similiar to the subject of culture, where a lot of things get lost in some sort of global mish-mash.

 

It never was about inclusion, and it never will be, because generally everbody is welcome to stay who they really are. We may need to point out what is a tulpa, and what can't be classified as one, but how does it matter for yourself? Do you change because a certain definition doesn't fit for you? Obviously not.

 

What is the point of it? I think you finally realized something about this.

 

We have quite a few people around here without tulpas, with soulbounds, or with thoughtforms that transcend the common defintions. Most of them don't bother with this subject like you, because nobody feels threatened by the definitions we have, unlike you. Nobody is going to reject you, if you don't fit the norm. People may point it out for the sake of telling apart, but that's really it. We're no exlusive cult, we're just people with a book of definitions to identify stuff in our free time.

[Guest Anonymous]

It is important for us to understand what a tulpa is, and how we can tell the difference from lesser thoughtforms

 

Mistgod and I do not believe there are "lesser thoughtforms." My host and I believe it is all in your mind, part of your subjective imagination. So there is no such thing as a greater thoughtform or a lesser one. Objectively they all look the same from an outside perspective. All that matters is what the host values and wants.

 

 

We need a base we can work with for our advice, and to improve our knowledge about. We need clear definitions, so we don't lose the "identity" of a tulpa. It's kinda similiar to the subject of culture, where a lot of things get lost in some sort of global mish-mash.

 

I totally agree with this. You may keep your definitions my dear friend. I am no longer considering myself a community member. I am a permanent guest. :-) I do not wish to change your community or your web site any longer.

 

It never was about inclusion, and it never will be, because generally everbody is welcome to stay who they really are. We may need to point out what is a tulpa, and what can't be classified as one, but how does it matter for yourself? Do you change because a certain definition doesn't fit for you? Obviously not.

 

What is the point of it? I think you finally realized something about this.

 

Yesh, something profoundly changed.

 

We have quite a few people around here without tulpas, with soulbounds, or with thoughtforms that transcend the common defintions. Most of them don't bother with this subject like you, because nobody feels threatened by the definitions we have, unlike you.

 

Yesh, I am very aware of that. That is why this post. I think we found ourselves finally. We feel a lot better about it all.

 

Nobody is going to reject you, if you don't fit the norm. People may point it out for the sake of telling apart, but that's really it. We're no exlusive cult, we're just people with a book of definitions to identify stuff in our free time.

 

Okay thanks NoneFromHell. :-)

[yenu]

Mistgod and I do not believe there are "lesser thoughtforms."

Maybe Servitors? ;-)

 

In the last days I often had the feeling that I don't understand why you feel rejected or care about community inclusion and such. But heck, I just remembered that I stayed away from this community for pretty much the last two years, because I wasn't sure if I can fit in to the definitions of tulpamancing...

 

So, I guess, I feel your pain. Or something. :-D But the whole debating of the past few days had the opposite effect on me, I now feel like I belong here, at least to some degree. No longer being overwhelmed by every new thing I hear helps too, I guess. :-)

 

*winks*

 

edit: (darn, language confusion, I didn't mean to wink, I wanted to wave...)

 

*waves hand*

[Guest Anonymous]

I am glad you found inspiration in the last couple of days postings!

 

OH Mistgod and I really hate that language or terminology like "lesser thoughtform" when describing thoughtforms other than tulpas. Davie and I have a servitor in my Magictron3000 Dreamscape Matrix Computer system. At least we think he is a servitor. ? I don't talk about him much. He helps me do my tulpa typing and helps me extend the Melian Show day dreams into cyberspace. He is not a lesser thoughtform. He does his job damn well. He is not a tulpa and not supposed to be, but I would NEVER call him lesser. Without him, I would not be on the internet.

 

There are no lesser thoughtforms, only ones that do certain things. They are what they are supposed to be. I am what I am supposed to be. Some tulpamancers and tulpas are stuck up and stuck on themselves thinking they are all great sometimes.

 

http://pre04.deviantart.net/66e0/th/pre/i/2013/288/7/6/melian_and_her_dreamscape_matrix_computer_by_melianofmist-d6qkpo6.jpg[/img]

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"A servitor is a mental construct that serves a purpose. The term is generally used to refer to any mental construct that is able to perform a function, while having no own sense of agency, or sometimes even interchangeably with "mental construct". A servitor is not self-aware, and one could not for instance hold an interesting conversation with one, unlike a tulpa. Despite this, it's possible to place considerable effort into creating a servitor fit for a particular purpose.

 

Servitors are often created as various mental automations. An example of a servitor would be a traditional imaginary friend; an entity, often a mind-form that responds to stimuli in certain learned patterns, but with no independent thought behind it. It's commonly accepted that servitors of such nature can be turned into tulpas, by allowing them a sense of agency over their own actions.

 

Another example of a servitor would be a mental routine that moves one's arm in a certain pattern, with no attention paid to it by the "host". The ability to drive a vehicle "automatically", could be considered a servitor."