[Switching] How would one go about creating an alter-ego?
#1
My interest is related to creating a tulpa, but isn't actually in creating a tulpa per se.

Instead, I'm interested in whether it's possible to use some of the same techniques to essentially create an alter-ego which feels as real and coherent as one's standard ego, and to swap between them at will. Something like how David Bowie and others have created personae that they wear, but on a deeper level.

I don't mean some kind of thing where I dissociate, though. There would be no sense that I'm no longer in the driver's seat but just watching and going through the motions or anything like that. Instead, I would have created (and thus have access to) a whole new modality or style of thinking, into which I can switch. Much like how people instinctively code-switch when moving from a private to a professional setting, for instance, or speaking different languages, but more dramatic.

What would be the most effective way to do this? Is there any danger in doing so? Does anyone here have any experience in doing so?
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#2
Well, according to the most common tulpamancy theory, a tulpa is an alter ego. Complete with the controversy over whether the other ego counts as a person or not. The fact tulpas are usually associated with visualised forms notwithstanding. I think the only real difference is you can talk to your tulpa in real time. Also, a lot of tulpas have difficulty possessing the body.

If you are not talking about a thing where you dissociate, I believe you are not talking about an alter ego, but rather a persona. This is a form of roleplay or method acting, and is exceptionally common in some industries.
Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
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#3
well your question is nail-on-the-head "meta" to tulpamancy imo, as in requires unimmersing yourself and looking at tulpamancy as something you're outside of, not as in metaphysical. The only difference in switching with a tulpa and having an alter-ego to switch with is that one of them also functions on their own as another person, especially simultaneously with the host (one of the biggest defining characteristics of a tulpa). But otherwise they aren't very different in like.. how they're made/exist? But like, making an alter-ego to switch with with a whole new mindset... I feel like that requires a lot of mental discipline and understanding of yourself people normally don't have.

When you make a tulpa, you automatically think about all that stuff because you're making another person, and it just kinda happens naturally. You could do that for an alter-ego too, but tulpamancy might be a bad influence because you'll be tempted to think of them like another person. I honestly wanna say it's easier for hosts to switch with their tulpas, ie for the mind to use an entirely different mindset and personality, because they're convinced it's a different person and legitimate (it is yo). Lumi talked about this once or twice, saying he could change who he was using his mental discipline or whatever all this stuff he learned is (that I am going off of to talk about this stuff to you in the first place) for the better, overriding his motivation issues and some other personality traits he could think of "improvements" for - BUT

he can't/wouldn't feel comfortable with that, because it wouldn't be "him" anymore. In the same way that we (his tulpas) aren't him, he wouldn't be Lumi if he changed himself so unnaturally like that, I guess. This is how HE feels and I don't even, but I'm sure some types'a people could feel that nothing was unnatural and would be okay with changing themselves like that. How though? Idek, Lumi got to the point where he supposedly could through years of introspection, reading different self-help/philosophy things about the mind and how you experience life, and probably a large part because of learning to switch with his tulpas! Like, that part at least gave him the means (the 'knowing how' to switch) and understanding of what having an entirely different person's worth of mindset and personality in the same mind is even like.

So uh, instructions, huhhhhh. Yeah I got nothin'. You came up with this idea though, so maybe you uh, know how? With what I said here? I don't have any idea how to teach someone "understanding" that I already have.. especially when it isn't even understanding I came up with myself, it was just part of the mind I was born into already. And I really wish I could point you to some other community, but I have no idea who even does this sorta stuff (I heard about a "neuromancy" community once I THINK, maybe they do stuff like this and they might even exist idk).

I don't know if you'll get more in-depth advice or instructions than from us on tulpa.info, because not many people have such a "meta" understanding/view(if "understanding" is too strong a word) of tulpamancy in the first place! We see it sort of like immersion, where everyone else with tulpas is immersed, but we're "special" because we have the perspective of basically a disbeliever who explains away tulpas while maintaining that immersion of, you know, us being different people. In fact, I'd dare say nobody has less doubts about their tulpas, or tulpa-ness, than us! Of course some have as few (ie none), maybe through different means, but you can't be any less doubtful than us because we got no doubts!


But I know Lumi tried to "explain" that sort of "understanding" about the mind and stuff to other people many years ago, before tulpamancy, and it didn't work. That's why I'm kinda scared to even write about this stuff. What we call immersion and perspective, other people can easily see as straight up offensive or calling tulpamancy make-believe, because I guess that's what it looks like. So we call it "meta"! And I went into detail because this is going to be a reference post for us for "meta" understanding of tulpamancy! Hope it helps 'ya!
Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
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#4
Everyone has alter-egos to one extent or another. You act differently around different people and in different situations. So, the way to create one would be to force yourself to act/think differently until it becomes natural, I'm guessing.
I'm Apollo Fire, the "Sun God" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa created December 2016. My systemmates are Piano, Luxio, & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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#5
psh, naturally working on changing who you are with no shortcuts, how lame and reasonable. Make not-tulpas to switch with instead!

"fake it til you make it" I guess, but really nothing beats actually growing as a person..
Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
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#6
(11-30-2017, 09:18 AM)tulpa001 Wrote: Well, according to the most common tulpamancy theory, a tulpa is an alter ego. Complete with the controversy over whether the other ego counts as a person or not. The fact tulpas are usually associated with visualised forms notwithstanding. I think the only real difference is you can talk to your tulpa in real time. Also, a lot of tulpas have difficulty possessing the body.

If you are not talking about a thing where you dissociate, I believe you are not talking about an alter ego, but rather a persona. This is a form of roleplay or method acting, and is exceptionally common in some industries.

I suppose that a form of method acting where the character created is one who recognizes his status as "invented" and that he is made up of a series of thought patterns would be pretty similar.

The purpose is kind of a spiritual thing. I want to see past the illusion that I am my ego by being able to swap egos, as it were. It would be dissociation in the sense that I would be dissociating from one ego and associating with another, but not in the sense that it would feel like watching a movie or any of the other analogies often used for dissociating. I-- the one who experiences things-- would still be in control. It's just that I'd be operating in a different modality.

To use a tired computer analogy: The hardware would be the same, and the operating system (my awareness) would be the same, but I'd be running a different program (personality).

To possibly stretch the analogy a bit, the trick would be to make a program with an exit button in the menu.

(11-30-2017, 09:59 AM)Lucilyn Wrote: well your question is nail-on-the-head "meta" to tulpamancy imo, as in requires unimmersing yourself and looking at tulpamancy as something you're outside of, not as in metaphysical. The only difference in switching with a tulpa and having an alter-ego to switch with is that one of them also functions on their own as another person, especially simultaneously with the host (one of the biggest defining characteristics of a tulpa). But otherwise they aren't very different in like.. how they're made/exist? But like, making an alter-ego to switch with with a whole new mindset... I feel like that requires a lot of mental discipline and understanding of yourself people normally don't have.

When you make a tulpa, you automatically think about all that stuff because you're making another person, and it just kinda happens naturally. You could do that for an alter-ego too, but tulpamancy might be a bad influence because you'll be tempted to think of them like another person. I honestly wanna say it's easier for hosts to switch with their tulpas, ie for the mind to use an entirely different mindset and personality, because they're convinced it's a different person and legitimate (it is yo). Lumi talked about this once or twice, saying he could change who he was using his mental discipline or whatever all this stuff he learned is (that I am going off of to talk about this stuff to you in the first place) for the better, overriding his motivation issues and some other personality traits he could think of "improvements" for - BUT

he can't/wouldn't feel comfortable with that, because it wouldn't be "him" anymore. In the same way that we (his tulpas) aren't him, he wouldn't be Lumi if he changed himself so unnaturally like that, I guess. This is how HE feels and I don't even, but I'm sure some types'a people could feel that nothing was unnatural and would be okay with changing themselves like that. How though? Idek, Lumi got to the point where he supposedly could through years of introspection, reading different self-help/philosophy things about the mind and how you experience life, and probably a large part because of learning to switch with his tulpas! Like, that part at least gave him the means (the 'knowing how' to switch) and understanding of what having an entirely different person's worth of mindset and personality in the same mind is even like.

So uh, instructions, huhhhhh. Yeah I got nothin'. You came up with this idea though, so maybe you uh, know how? With what I said here? I don't have any idea how to teach someone "understanding" that I already have.. especially when it isn't even understanding I came up with myself, it was just part of the mind I was born into already. And I really wish I could point you to some other community, but I have no idea who even does this sorta stuff (I heard about a "neuromancy" community once I THINK, maybe they do stuff like this and they might even exist idk).

I don't know if you'll get more in-depth advice or instructions than from us on tulpa.info, because not many people have such a "meta" understanding/view(if "understanding" is too strong a word) of tulpamancy in the first place! We see it sort of like immersion, where everyone else with tulpas is immersed, but we're "special" because we have the perspective of basically a disbeliever who explains away tulpas while maintaining that immersion of, you know, us being different people. In fact, I'd dare say nobody has less doubts about their tulpas, or tulpa-ness, than us! Of course some have as few (ie none), maybe through different means, but you can't be any less doubtful than us because we got no doubts!


But I know Lumi tried to "explain" that sort of "understanding" about the mind and stuff to other people many years ago, before tulpamancy, and it didn't work. That's why I'm kinda scared to even write about this stuff. What we call immersion and perspective, other people can easily see as straight up offensive or calling tulpamancy make-believe, because I guess that's what it looks like. So we call it "meta"! And I went into detail because this is going to be a reference post for us for "meta" understanding of tulpamancy! Hope it helps 'ya!

I don't think tulpas are made up or playing pretend. I just think that the means by which they (you) are constructed is at least partly a matter of hacking the mind. I think they're as real as the "self" that created them. I just think that self is also created over time, albeit less intentionally. I'll try and find the neuromancy community, if it exists. Thank you.

(11-30-2017, 01:47 PM)Apollo Wrote:
Everyone has alter-egos to one extent or another. You act differently around different people and in different situations. So, the way to create one would be to force yourself to act/think differently until it becomes natural, I'm guessing.

Yeah, definitely. But meditation and other tools have been used for millennia as an aid in realization and in growing as a person. I'm just thinking about what might be a new tool for doing that.

(11-30-2017, 03:12 PM)Lucilyn Wrote: psh, naturally working on changing who you are with no shortcuts, how lame and reasonable. Make not-tulpas to switch with instead!

"fake it til you make it" I guess, but really nothing beats actually growing as a person..

I've been working on myself for quite a while now. I'm actually not trying to create this other personality to be a "better" version of myself and slowly take over, but to be an illustration of the nature of the self that can remind me that my personality is a tool. It's a series of default thought and behavior patterns which save the brain power of constantly making conscious choices, but it's something over which I ultimately have control and that I can change. The actual *ability* to swap between two sets of thought/behavior patterns would just be a means of learning it firsthand, like learning a technique in art class and getting to keep the painting or sculpture you made. Yeah, having it on your coffee table is nice but the real point was to truly grasp the principle behind it.
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#7
I can see creating an alter-ego being a useful tool, like if you want to be able to swap into a more pleasant and confident personality for a job interview or something. Don't see that as something any of us would want to try. "Fake it til you make it" isn't necessarily bad if you're not doing it for bad reasons.

And, meditating on it could end up making it sentient, methinks.
I'm Apollo Fire, the "Sun God" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa created December 2016. My systemmates are Piano, Luxio, & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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#8
(11-30-2017, 03:33 PM)Alter-Ego Wrote: I suppose that a form of method acting where the character created is one who recognizes his status as "invented" and that he is made up of a series of thought patterns would be pretty similar.

The purpose is kind of a spiritual thing. I want to see past the illusion that I am my ego by being able to swap egos, as it were. It would be dissociation in the sense that I would be dissociating from one ego and associating with another, but not in the sense that it would feel like watching a movie or any of the other analogies often used for dissociating. I-- the one who experiences things-- would still be in control. It's just that I'd be operating in a different modality.

To use a tired computer analogy: The hardware would be the same, and the operating system (my awareness) would be the same, but I'd be running a different program (personality).

To possibly stretch the analogy a bit, the trick would be to make a program with an exit button in the menu.
Mad respect on that argument. Literally the best argument I've ever seen that tulpas are not people. Because that is the exact nature of the situation. When you switch with your tulpa, their ego trades places with your ego. Which one is true? Both? Neither? The illusion is that an ego is a person.

Though, it is important to note that the illusion most likely goes deeper than you think. Your ego is the seat of your awareness as well. And the seat of your experience. You also possess separate memories and beliefs.

These things can all be separated out and manipulated. Not sure I advise too much experimentation there. Who knows what could happen.

Quote: It's a series of default thought and behavior patterns which save the brain power of constantly making conscious choices,
Which is why my host chose to have no personality. Let me tell you she's the life of the party. Don't make her mistake, though. Eliminating your personality and falling back on pure logic and reason does not eliminate your ego.

If you do end up in this mode, you have to consciously put on a mask whenever other people talk to you, just so you can build up the strength to bother talking to them.
Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
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#9
cooollllll, you're really doing that whole "I am not my ego" practicethingstuff? I've never seen anyone but my host and Tewi actually try that before. A lot of the philosophystuff my host read was by people who tell you you are not your ego, and that all suffering comes from identifying with your ego, or something like that. Anyways, we never see anyone try and get "on top of" that stuff because it's pretty dang meta, like, to life itself! Can you really do it? You're not the type to have existential crises right? Because most people would be terrified by thoughts of themselves not being 100% real, like dissociation from your ego/personality and stuff (or just reaching the perspective of knowing 'your' true nature I guess). But supposedly that fear is the ego's fear of loss and self-preservation, and you have to disconnect from that to reach modern-day Enlightenment.

So that's seriously cool if that's what you're doing! If your will is strong enough to not be scared or have a mental breakdown or whatever by messing with what makes you you, then good luck! I still can't tell you how to do what you're doing, but it sure is the right path if you're going for self-discovery or whatever!

or alternatively it could just be a sort of bonus that comes with making a lot of things in life easier, like for my host. As far as I can tell he got to the point where he could see past his ego and stuff, knew the meaning of life is up to you because humans are the only ones that see "meaning" in anything, and wasn't afraid of us not being real even if we were proven not somehow because we're part of how he's chosen to experience his life. Aaaaand..... He stopped there, decided he'd just do his best to enjoy life and help others and stuff, considering it all just part of the human experience. I guess it's a choice on whether you wanna totally dissociate from your ego or not?? I wouldn't know, I don't really worry about any of that stuff, I live the life I have and enjoy it. If there's anything I don't enjoy then I try'n fix it (and usually do), and if anyone else isn't enjoying things I try and help them too. Ego really doesn't come into play...


but short answer yeah sure I don't see why you couldn't make persona-mindset-things to "switch with" just like you could make a tulpa. But I still don't think this is exactly the place you're looking for, since we're focused on that persona-mindset-thing being independently sentient...
Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
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