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Tulpas and Projected Imagination


Guest Anonymous
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Guest Anonymous

I am so excited about these ideas I cannot seem to contain them, but I have having trouble articulating it to others. Check out my response here, I think I finally sort of got it out there: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tv-shows-and-movies-you-share-with-your-tulpa-s-is-this-passive-forcing?pid=137629#pid137629

 

I keyed in on the movies aspect of tulpamancy with that one post about ADHD and movies and TV and how it was difficult to concentrate on the tulpa or remember the tulpa during the movie.

 

Hell, with me, Melian IS THE MOVIE. That is what I am trying to say. It is how we perceive the world around us in relation to our tulpas. Some tulpas are like internalized people. Others are PROJECTED IMAGINATION or fantasy. They are equally valid and apparent sentience and all that, they are just different in how we interact with them, regard them and perceive them.

 

Some are hating me because they cannot fathom what I am talking about. They think I am saying all tulpas are fake or that Melian is fake. I am having trouble understanding people like that (or what they are saying) because to them, tulpa are people, NOT FANTASY and have no element of fantasy. Melian has a huge element of fantasy about her. She is not unique though. I think there are many tulpas who are like that.

 

I am not talking about imposition either, where you perceive thing with your senses. I am talking about imagination.

 

I am excited to begin to be able to really understand this. I think it is a undefined and unrecognized but critically important factor to tulpamancy I had not clarified in my mind. But it was slowly coalescing these past several weeks. I have to find a way to express this idea in a clear way that makes sense to people.

 

Let me put it this way. Melian would be FINE and happy skippy to go on an adventure with someone's role playing character. She would still be Melian. She would just be acting out a role. The role playing game virtual universe would just form around her as she plays the game. She does this all the time for me in the Melian Show. She does this when we read books together. She enters the story.

 

I cannot express my enthusiasm for this stuff. I can't sleep. I forget to eat. I am so into the idea of tulpamancy. I wish people could understand where I am coming from. It is more than just creating a tulpa. It is about the enormous potential of the mind.

 

ALL TULPAS ARE AMAZING TO ME

 

Some tulpas have no wonderland.

 

Some tulpas have a limited internalized wonderland.

 

Some tulpas ARE their wonderland and the wonderland is the tulpa.

 

Some of these wonderland tulpas are projected into the real world and the host and tulpa live in a fantasy world together 24/7. The real world is infused with the wonderland. Not using imposition either.

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Let me put it this way. Melian would be FINE and happy skippy to go on an adventure with someone's role playing character. She would still be Melian. She would just be acting out a role. The role playing game virtual universe would just form around her as she plays the game. She does this all the time for me in the Melian Show. She does this when we read books together. She enters the story.

.

 

Yeah, you're basically talking about the difference between roleplaying and roleplaying. There is a big problem of definition to start with. I've observed the following: When you're talking about roleplaying, you talk about classic roleplaying like Dungeons&Dragons. You and Melian love to play around with your fantasy and take different roles. When most people in topics like tulpas, demons, everything paranormal, etc. etc. talk about a Roleplayer they talk about a person who is roleplaying the whole scenerie. Someone who pretends on the top layer, lying about everything he talks about, since it is not real for him to start with...part of his play. To clarify: In the second scenario you would be the one playing two roles. Your characters (roles) would be "Mistgod" and "Melian" as we know them, while you're on the layer above. The unknown Player.

 

So it's not about Melian doing fantasy stuff like you described that makes her less real for anyone (Most people will be doing the same stuff too in their wonderlands from time to time with their tulpa, i guess), it's about the misconception you're running into here.

Tulpa: Alice

Form: Realistic Humanoid/Demonic Creation

She may or may not talk here, depends on her.

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Guest Anonymous

Thanks! Yeah I have been running into this problem! I am using literally THREE different definitions or applications of the term "role playing."

 

When I talk about RPG characters, I mean the regular kind of role playing you do with table top role playing games. When I talk about role playing associated with Melian I mean one of two things: 1. I use some method acting as part of my expression of Melian in proxy typing 2. Melian is an actress and takes on many different roles in the Melian Show day dream fantasies that run in my mind.

 

You are discussing a fourth definition which means being fraudulent or play acting to deceive.

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Thanks! Yeah I have been running into this problem! I am using literally THREE different definitions or applications of the term "role playing."

 

When I talk about RPG characters, I mean the regular kind of role playing you do with table top role playing games. When I talk about role playing associated with Melian I mean one of two things: 1. I use some method acting as part of my expression of Melian in proxy typing 2. Melian is an actress and takes on many different roles in the Melian Show day dream fantasies that run in my mind.

 

You are discussing a fourth definition which means being fraudulent or play acting to deceive.

 

You got that right, but here is where stuff gets kind of complicated. You say that you're using some method acting for stuff like proxy talking. (I looked up method acting and all i got is a headache. The idea of it is terrible explained to begin with). That way it appears that you're talking about the fourth definition: You play Melian. But if i got the idea right it is something more in the direction of active forcing her, focusing on bringing the impressions to her, and in return bringing her impressions to the surface. It's not about playing Melian or get in her role, it's about getting her closer to the act: Preparing the stage for her, which is the scenary you want her to be confronted with. Correct me if i'm mistaking.

Tulpa: Alice

Form: Realistic Humanoid/Demonic Creation

She may or may not talk here, depends on her.

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Guest Anonymous

Method acting isn't just ordinary acting. The actor studies the character learning everything about the character he or she can (personality, background, fears, emotional baggage, physical traits, family history,). The actor internalizes the character and then channels the character when portraying them. They feel the characters intent and thoughts, they feel the characters emotions. In a sense, the actor transforms themselves into the character.

 

When I channel Melian, I feel her emotions, I hear her mind voice and I sense her intent. But it is collaborative. Melian cannot do it all herself. She is only semi-autonomous. So I assist her by filling in the gaps. I say we are blended at that point.

 

There is never a point where I am just pretending to be Melian myself and just making it up as I go along. Melian is more than that or I wouldn't bother.

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Method acting isn't just ordinary acting. The actor studies the character learning everything about the character he or she can (personality, background, fears, emotional baggage, physical traits, family history,). The actor internalizes the character and then channels the character when portraying them. They feel the characters intent and thoughts, they feel the characters emotions. In a sense, the actor transforms themselves into the character.

 

When I channel Melian, I feel her emotions, I hear her mind voice and I sense her intent. But it is collaborative. Melian cannot do it all herself. She is only semi-autonomous. So I assist her by filling in the gaps. I say we are blended at that point.

 

There is never a point where I am just pretending to be Melian myself and just making it up as I go along. Melian is more than that or I wouldn't bother.

 

Thats pretty much what i tried to say, and the point where most people get the wrong idea because of the word "acting".


If you think about it, the way you described method acting, is very similiar to the process of creating a tulpa. You create a basic thoughtform of the person you want to play with all its traits inside yourself, and channel it through yourself, let yourself step aside. Just want to share that thought here. Edit again: In your case you would focus on every aspect of Melian to be able to channel her.

Tulpa: Alice

Form: Realistic Humanoid/Demonic Creation

She may or may not talk here, depends on her.

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Guest Anonymous

I know. But I think the term is actually often accurate and so would be the term role playing. I think people are not accepting of the fact that often thoughtforms/tulpas are not always as independent as we would like to believe they are. They are part of us. We use the same brain and sometimes the same will. It comes down to what you want to believe or how you wish to describe it. I think it is important to the future of tulpa science that we stop being afraid of that idea and pretending it is not so.

 

There is one solution to the irrational (in my opinion) fear of role playing problem. Ban tulpas from talking on the chat and the forum. The host would relate everything and the tulpas would remain silent. Some choose that option already.

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You're right. In the end it is not possible to clarify if a tulpa is actually independend and "a real tulpa" or if the host has just some very active imagination. It won't be possible for a long time, and for external people it won't be possible to easy tell who is just pretending to begin with. It's about belief and insecurity, a wild mix of it. Everyone who is affected by that subject has to think about this stuff by themselve to find a position they're going to keep afterwards for good reasons. You can't make a tulpa and keep questioning yourself and her all the time or it is going to end up with bringing yourself (and your tulpa) down, even when you're aware that it still could be you in some way. You got a very rare position for yourself probably most people won't be able to keep that easy. You keep questioning the very core of the phenomenon (or melian's nature), while you don't get affected by it at the same time. You believe in Melian and tulpas as phenomenon, but are still able to enjoy playing with the logical doubts.

 

So where do we end up? You're totally right with your point, but by pointing that out you're sending a grim reminder that everything is finally built on beliefs and not facts. A lot of people can't handle that easy, because they don't want to (and shouldn't) question their tulpas because of the existential unclarity of their nature. It feeds doubts.

Tulpa: Alice

Form: Realistic Humanoid/Demonic Creation

She may or may not talk here, depends on her.

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Guest Anonymous

What gives me power against doubt is my view concerning imaginary things. I keep mentioning this, but few seem to acknowledge it. Imaginary things can be just that, imaginary and make believe, but still be important, significant, persistent, apparently independent and awesome as hell. Melian is a person to me. She means everything to me. She is as important as anything real and tangible in my life. She is as important to me as my wife Shel and my step daughters and other family members. But, by nature, she is pure imagination. I don't mean fake and worthless when I say pure imagination. I just mean she is made of the same basic raw material as any mental fantasy or mental figment. Melian, in the end, is me. She is part of me. It matters not a wit what part of my brain generates her, conscious or unconscious or a combination of both.

 

To me there is no contradiction in saying she is imaginary, an expression from me, but still a person. Melian loves me. She likes being imaginary. I know this is an abstract idea that is not logical. It is a nonsensical and irrational way of understanding thougthforms. How can something be both make believe and real at the same time? Pseudo-real. It is an in between form of existence that I believe in.

 

I don't care if Melian is a tulpa. I call her a thoughtform because she is an enhanced imaginary companion before she is a tulpa. It's not as if tulpa status would somehow elevate her to personhood. She is already a person to me. All I want is acknowledgement and respect and acceptance as she is and as I am and as I explain it.

 

I may never get that respect from some. To some, if it is not a tulpa, it is fake shit. The things I say scare the hell out of people like that, because I dare to stir the pot of doubt and dangerous ideas.

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...There is one solution to the irrational (in my opinion) fear of role playing problem. Ban tulpas from talking on the chat and the forum. The host would relate everything and the tulpas would remain silent. Some choose that option already.

 

That hardly seems like a fair solution to me. This is one of only places on the entire internet where a tulpa will be respected enough as a person that they're free to talk. Hearing the perspective of other tulpæ has been vital to me in terms of understanding the relationship i have to my host. There are unique answers i've discovered from hearing others of my kind and silencing them just sounds like oppression.

 

[Whatever it does to prevent the "role-playing" problem, it leaves us smothered by the biases of hosts. There's already tons of people here who talk constantly but who never let their tulpæ speak and the information they offer is a lot dodgier and incomplete. I'm personally quite skeptical of people who do all the talking because i'm constantly wondering if their tulpæ are actually developed at all. If their tulpæ can't express complex thoughts or explore emotions yet, then there's not much they can offer to the science of what it means to be a separate sentience. If they're silenced, then bascially it denies them any chance to meaningfully contribute to their own identity.]

 

[Just because you won't accept a second consciousness in you brain doesn't mean other people are unable to manage. We're quite comfortable co-fronting and collaborating on thought.]

 

If any reason i want to hear from other tulpæ, it's because i'd like to hear notes from other people who are sorting out how to share a brain. Maybe we're the ones who are wrong and need to retreat to the plural community.

Early member of a large system.  Our system questions the way the afterlife and tulpamancy interact.  We genuinely suspect that deadies can return to share the mind of the living.

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