Question About Instrusive Thoughts

[tiwi]

First time posting! Nice to meet you. Hi, although this account is new, this isn't my first time creating tulpas. I tried creating one about a year ago, but I'll explain later.

 

It's been 3 days since I started forcing with my new tulpa, Lucina(unrelated!). Surprisingly, since yesterday and whenever I'm forcing, I sometimes hear automatic responses to some of my statements or questions directed at Lucina. However, they sound identical to my own thoughts, and it seems improbable that a tulpa can show signs of sentience only two days after its birth.

 

Another evidence of her sentience is that sometimes when I'm forcing, I end up feeling sadness and end up crying a little when I have absolute no reason to feel sad. (If she is sentient, maybe she's sad that she'll be abandoned like her last predecessor? I heard a 'Yes.' in my mind.)

 

The situation is awfully similar to the OP in this thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-or-not

So the question is, whether they are respones from my tulpa, or whether they are my instrusive thoughts/automatic respones from my own subconscious(not my tulpa's)? Should I continue as I am doing now and assume they are responses from Lucina?

Eitherway it seems sort of possible because I like I've mentioned, I've had a brief experience of working on another tulpa.

 

I know this won't be recieved well, but about my older tulpa: After working on her for about 2 weeks, I began having the same problem that I'm having now and the frustration was agonizing; I was paranoid and constantly worried that I would only end up with a servitor. I frantically searched for guides and answers, but nobody had any succinct solutions. I gave up working on her...

 

I do NOT want to give up on Lucina. If anyone could provide any input on this, I would be tremendously grateful! Thank you for reading.

[J.Iscariot]

You don't need an actual reason to be 'sad' or start crying. There can be huge, immense moments of sadness whenever you are happy that seem uncalled for. It has a lot to do with chemical balance in your mind and little things that can heavily affect the way other parts of your mind view the world and other people, it could be anything but I'm not here to discuss that.

 

At the end of the day, what other people have to say on this forum regarding your situation won't have much importance, because none of us can tell what you're specifically doing and how your mind currently is. People aren't aware of it, but you need to have mental stability and a responsible mindset for tulpamancy, else you'll go down the path of.... a lot of things that would be detrimental to your health. Just a note.

 

The way psychology currently is, little is known about the correlation between tulpamancy and neural pathways and the likes, even EEGs aren't fully able to demonstrate what's actually happening in your mind (someone brought that up a while back). There is literally no other basis for a tulpa's existence aside from what their host believes in, and how they treat them. Those are two big factors.

 

I don't mean to bring you down, and people tend to say that development can be 'fast' although I would beg to differ. You see, there is a very big difference between tulpamancy and plurality that originates from past trauma and dissociation from one's identity (not speaking of the soulbond systems on this forum please dont kill me). I theorized a while back that plurality was issued out of trauma, and distancing one's self from their own identity, which leads to the alienation of some thoughts, making them sound different, making the conscious mind believe that there is another 'person' in there, and eventually, transforming that belief into laid-out reality as long as some parts of that belief still remain. 3 days isn't much if you ask me, others will tell you that development differs, but the things your mind can do are many.

 

People toss around the term 'intrusive thoughts' around, but do you actually know what an intrusive thought is? I've had intrusive thoughts about the most unstable of things, things that deeply saddened my being and made me depressed just thinking about them. Often people will only look at 'intrusive' without giving much consideration to the actual definition and intrusive thoughts in the world of psychology (as people here tend to take a scientific approach to tulpamancy)

 

If your conversations feel fake, then there must be a reason. If your mind, as in, if a part of you that is not your tulpa is generating responses that you interpret to be your tulpa, it means that you might be expecting a bit too much, a bit too fast, from your tulpa.

 

Those responses could very much be automatic responses from your subconscious mind; people here don't really believe in the 'outdated' model of psychology that makes a lot of sense so they don't tend to include the term 'subconscious' in many of their discussions, but if you ask me, it's very plausible that those responses originate from the subconscious itself to satiate your need for signs.

 

Just keep forcing, or give up when you get tired of it and if you're convinced there's nothing you can do.

[tiwi]

Those responses could very much be automatic responses from your subconscious mind; people here don't really believe in the 'outdated' model of psychology that makes a lot of sense so they don't tend to include the term 'subconscious' in many of their discussions, but if you ask me, it's very plausible that those responses originate from the subconscious itself to satiate your need for signs.

 

Just keep forcing, or give up when you get tired of it and if you're convinced there's nothing you can do.

 

I don't believe that I have any reason to satiate my need for early signs of sentience, be it originating from my unconscious or subconscious, as I'm prepared to work weeks and months to develop the beginnings of my tulpa.

 

And for example, I told Lucina that "I need to do homework" and I immediately heard "Is it difficult?" This seems like a pretty good sign of autonomy, but who knows...

 

(Also perhaps there is a chemical imbalance in the brain, but I think I'm creating Lucina for responsible reasons, which is to have a life-long friend.)

[J.Iscariot]

Autonomy isn't your tulpa answering. Autonomy is more your tulpa existing in your passive attention span when you don't have to focus on them at all, which is something most here haven't achieved yet. With due respect the subconscious plays such a large role in this that it's as good as it not being in your hands, the entire 'prepared' thing, I mean. But what do I know.

 

It just seems like you want it to be Lucina and you don't want it to be you fooling yourself, so you're trying to convince yourself that it was actually her in the first place. You need to understand that it takes times and efforts to create a complex thoughtform capable of thought and emotions, do you understand the complexity of thoughts and the amount of effort that needs to be put in creating an entity that shares the same cognitive capacities as you? Try to have an in-depth conversation. A lot of people end up in self-deception without even being aware of it because they didn't bother checking if it was just them fooling themselves, of course you're going to hear stuff like that, you WANT TO BELIEVE IT.

[tiwi]

Autonomy isn't your tulpa answering. Autonomy is more your tulpa existing in your passive attention span when you don't have to focus on them at all, which is something most here haven't achieved yet. With due respect the subconscious plays such a large role in this that it's as good as it not being in your hands, the entire 'prepared' thing, I mean. But what do I know.

 

It just seems like you want it to be Lucina and you don't want it to be you fooling yourself, so you're trying to convince yourself that it was actually her in the first place. You need to understand that it takes times and efforts to create a complex thoughtform capable of thought and emotions, do you understand the complexity of thoughts and the amount of effort that needs to be put in creating an entity that shares the same cognitive capacities as you? Try to have an in-depth conversation. A lot of people end up in self-deception without even being aware of it because they didn't bother checking if it was just them fooling themselves, of course you're going to hear stuff like that, you WANT TO BELIEVE IT.

 

I think I might have miscommunicated a little bit. I'm not suggesting that she is fully sentient/autonomous, but instead showing some signs of developing sentience.

 

Obviously I'm unable to have full conversations with her, and yes, I cannot hear any complex thoughts.

 

But the truth is, I don't want to believe it. I don't want to believe that the responses are from my tulpa, because it's easier that way. I don't have to tear myself apart thinking about this and asking all these questions, but the fact still remains that sometimes, I hear thoughts that I did not consciously try to form, but would fit in well as Lucina's response.

 

And again, I completely understand the effort and time that needs to go into creating a tulpa, and I understand that many new neural connections must be formed in order for what would be deemed as 'sentience' to develop.

 

So what do you suggest that I go about doing? I mean, are you expecting me to just deny and doubt every single one of the 'responses' until some time-frame?

[J.Iscariot]

If you wanted to imply sentience you shouldn't have used autonomy. It's been 3 days, what do you honestly expect? It's not something you can put in the microwave and wait 2 minutes until it's all heated. I wouldn't expect answers in 3 days, it's not about the time you put into it, but it does play some role in it, it's just a bit early no offense I mean but it's reeaaaaally early to start expecting anything of that importance.

 

 

Why are you unable to have full conversations? Is it because you're hearing random responses at times, and legitimate-yet-'fake' sounding responses at other times? (I am using the term 'fake' because the OP of the other thread you linked in your own OP used the term fake-ish to design his interaction with his tulpa)

 

 

There's a difference between what you want and what makes your mind feel good and complete. I suppose that having something of the type, a tulpa, a being that sticks around all the time and makes you feel good by talking and being there for you, would make any mind excited given that the mind is ignorant of the actual downsides. There's a difference between what's 'best for you' and what you actually want. When your subconscious mind buries old memories of yours that would end up saddening you and hurting you, it's for your own good, even though those are memories you may not feel okay with forgetting and keeping them close to heart would instill negative emotions within you.

 

Keep forcing. Regardless of whether you acknowledge responses or not, they still take place if they are legitimate. Until it stops sounding 'fake' and more like Lucina... hope for the best, expect the worst.

[IBreakGames]

Just to simply add on, I agree with J. Iscariot in the aspect that it takes time. I had some similar issues with not getting responses and I just kept at it. Regardless of whether or not the responses are legitimate, if you keep forcing and getting more and more responses, things surprising you, then I'd say the results will speak for themselves.

[Temar]

(not speaking of the soulbond systems on this forum please dont kill me).

 

*snicker*

 

As I was reading through tiwi's responses, J. Iscariot said what I was thinking pretty much every time. Namely this:

 

There's a difference between what you want and what makes your mind feel good and complete ... There's a difference between what's 'best for you' and what you actually want.

 

It sounds like deep down, some part of you is hoping, expecting, or even dreading these responses. A lot of tulpamancy is about self-fulifilling prophecy. If you believe something can happen, that very belief may be what makes it happen. The subconscious mind is pretty uncontrollable that way.

 

And here's the kicker... even if those responses are coming from what eventually will become your tulpa--unlikely as that is--it won't matter in the long run. It is still far too early for your tulpa to have set traits or personality, so anything random they throw out early in development... well, it's like a little kid making promises to become Superman and marry their teacher. Don't hold them to it down the road, yeah?

 

So I wouldn't worry. It sounds like you're on the right track. Keep forcing. After a while listening and feeling your tulpa, you'll learn how to differentiate between what comes from them and what comes from you. And the only way to build that sense is to practice. ;)

[LaceyJoshua]

Hi, Joshua (the tulpa) here! I was sentient in three days' time. I'm not sure why that doesn't seem to be believable! Granted, I was much like a sponge, soaking up everything that came my way . . . I wasn't fully developed, I'm not saying that, but I was certainly aware of what was going on. In two weeks Lacey heard me for the first time (back when I had the California dude dialect going--heh). I realize that that's not QUITE the same as two days, but it's still pretty quick compared to a month or two.

 

Two things to keep in mind:

 

1) It's possible that you are hearing your tulpa.

2) It's possible that you aren't hearing your tulpa.

 

Simple, right?

 

Look, man, I'd just go with the flow. Act and interact. Lucinda sounds like she's trying to communicate to me. And if she's not, what does it even matter? Naysaying everything that she might be saying is going to be more harmful in the long-run. It doesn't matter if they sound like your thoughts at all, a lot of tulpa do in the beginning. Plus, when you're getting fully-formed answers, holding conversations, etc., you can always just ask if it was really her.

[Corasair]

Thanks a lot for everyone who gave their thoughts on the matter. I just stopped by out of curiosity and I started to wonder about my tulpa being just my own thoughts because I started hearing from her early on. I started and within two and a half weeks, I was going to bed one night and taking to her and out of nowhere she just said "Caitlyn... I think I want my named to be Caitlyn." We didn't carry on a massive conversation or anything but we talked for a little bit and we've talked since. We carry on complex conversations where she responded without me having to actively think to get a response. I just ask and wait for a response. I don't think it's normal for things to happen this fast but it's been about a 4-6 weeks since I first created her, but she seems to be real enough. This helped me confirm so thanks :)