Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

[Lucilyn]

Hey, can you define polyphasic sleeping? That sound like it might be useful to know about.

 

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/10/polyphasic-sleep/ and a whole lotta posts at the bottom

not everyone "wakes up" during the night and definitely not specifically four times (maybe on average). But everyone goes through REM cycles and there's a point each time where they're very close to being basically awake, moreso later in than in the first few. some people like us are actually conscious during those times, and some people don't even open their eyes

 

here have a song too, think we're really running out of calm songs like this now though. Believe it or not we never considered this a sleep song, just a chill one

[video=youtube]

[Lucilyn]

same stuff. I think I should switch with Tewi tomorrow, she wants to clean and stuff for the holidays. And she can probably do this vivid dream thing better than I can, she has more self control, I didn't even get out of bed last night, just stayed awake for like ten minutes. I have had a whole lotta fun though! I.. wanna say that's what matters to me, but I really want to lucid dream too. I will be so happy to do anything the others want to do once we can control our dreams.. they're all so close, so it creates a fun/exciting atmosphere just to have them together, so no matter what they do even if it's boring it will be a ton of fun. I just wanna be there for that, I really don't care if I'm the one controlling the dream or if we do what I wanna do. I guess they feel the same way though.

 

aaahm tired, stayed up reaally late watching Cry's Late Night stream Okaaay good night!

[Tewi]

Lucilyn vacuumed for me, that was nice. Took a lot of time for herself, but that's alright. She stopped doing the Wake Back To Bed (WBTB) technique though. I will do it as best I can.

 

A couple of things I'm not fond of were brought up while I was gone, I'll work on fixing those too.

[Tewi]

This'll be a reply to a message Solune sent us and our daily post at the same time.

 

It's awesome that you guys had an experience like that. There's nothing that I "didn't believe", we're well aware of the potential in lucid dreams. I don't personally believe you were out of your body, just dreaming you were, but that doesn't change the experience. The fact that you had the realization of how outside perceptions are interpreted into dream form in-dream shows that was quite a unique experience either way. And it's fine you didn't feel the need to immediately hug your tulpas - that's sort of a silly thing Lumi's held onto for a long time now. He just wants to spend time with us, but the hug thing is practically symbolic of our togetherness at this point. There's a reason I said if I were first to lucid dream I probably wouldn't hug any of them, it's not what really matters. And we were also aware of the real life --> dream sensations thing, but I'm still impressed you figured it out through a lucid dream.

 

I feel (and Sol agrees) that you can't do this out of the desire for control. The more you ache to do it, the tighter you try to grasp it, the more it will escape you.

Basically, what I suggest is simple: make peace with never being able to do it. Ever. Find a way to simultaneously believe you can do it, and also believe that it doesn't matter if you ever do it.

I know that's 100% antithetical to everything you've been working towards... it's just a thought. Take it or leave it.

This, though. I was going to say, "You definitely said this to the wrong person." But to be fair, you sent it to Lumi and I read it anyways. But you definitely said this to the wrong person. I'm sure that works for you, and maybe it "could" work for us. But I and our mind, we don't get along. I feel very strongly about having more control over how it works than it wants me to. Whether that's random annoying thoughts or it trying to tell me something is "too much work, don't do it", I automatically do the opposite. So you implying that that might be the case only made me want to brute force a lucid dream tonight.

 

 

I had more somewhat vivid dreams last night, strangely enough yet again having one decently long one within only four hours of sleeping. I woke up at 4AM, 4 hours after going to sleep, having had a relatively vivid and long dream. I found that really strange, and the next three or so dreams were basically equivalent. If our dream recall's reached the point where it's made our early REM dreams vivid too, that is some very nice progress.

 

My plan was to keep up this WBTB thing for a few days, as a control, before also trying taking melatonin again along with it. In the past when we've used it our dream recall was never great at the time, so I'm interested in seeing if it does actually have an effect on dream vividity. My theory is that we're just too resistant to all types of drugs for it to matter. From numbing to tiring, they never seem to work as well as they're supposed to or occasionally at all. Apparently melatonin puts most people we know who've used it to sleep, while I know for a fact it does not affect us pre-sleep, at all. But I still think it might have an effect on our dreams.

 

Anyways, still the plan. Except now I'm including All-Night-Awareness along with WBTB. We'd given up on that before (it's what Lumi and Flan had been doing together) because it got literally no results, but unfortunately for Solune he's inspired me to try harder. I will never "give up" trying to control our mind. I'm quite frankly disgusted with how it's handled itself the last ten years, and consider it to have lost all rights to that control. Now, lifestyle and day-to-day thought processes aside, I refuse to allow it full control over our dreams either. Lumi and the others care too much. However, I'm honestly not disappointed in how our mind handles dreams. Though it's done its best to refuse all lucidity, the content of our dreams has all but proven to me the biological, evolutionary use of dreams in preparing you to deal with various scenarios. Some of them get a bit old, but nonetheless I respect the unique situations it occasionally puts us in. So even should we become "masters of lucid dreaming" capable of taking over every single dream for our own purposes (haha, what if right?), none of us have any intent to do so. Lumi actually did have a theory years ago that the mind may be afraid of us taking away that "evolutionary advantage", and so did his best to promise it lucid dreaming would be kept to at most one a night, with all the rest as random as it wanted. Yeah that didn't fool it. But anyways, out of respect I still wouldn't do that. I mean, we'd run out of things to do pretty quick in that hypothetical anyways. Lumi decided he would be content with, even when lucid, simply playing out the dreams as they were going albeit with a bit more conscious thought. I'm alright with that.

 

But we're still going to lucid dream at all. Our mind can consider it payback for all those days it decided to sleep in rather than go to school, which I believe is over one hundred. I don't really care what it... thinks (hmm), I'd be working towards this for the others' sake anyways. And that's what I'll do.

 

Good night. And thanks for sharing, Solune.

[Tewi]

In light of our own weirdness and the large post I just wrote before this, I don't really feel like expounding on what I did last night. I don't really believe our mind is its own entity, rather I believe acting towards it as if it is is a conduit for influencing it and ourselves. If that makes sense. So I had a "talk" with it last night, about how I'm not trying to work against it, just doing what's in our best interest. And that, in the respective areas of our life, its auto-pilot has failed to produce adequate results and so I plan to take over them manually.

 

So yeah, literally talked to our brain for a while, said more than that but whatever. Dreams were then the same as the last few days. Last night's were... the type that really suck you in to a strange scenario. Some people set "us" (don't even know who I was with) in a house haunted by like, werewolf-ghosts. My priority was keeping everyone alive until we could find a way out. Another dream I forgot, but I had moments of conscious reasoning that went to a dream character instead of our lucidity. I'm not entirely of the mind that our mind is trying to work against us, we just aren't working hard enough to overcome how the body naturally functions.

 

Our subconscious and the mind entity I address are not the same thing. My "mind" friend is the one responsible for automatic behavior and feelings, while the subconscious is and forever will be beyond my reach. I can't even pretend to personify the subconscious mind either. No one's subconscious is an entity. It's the conglomeration of every tiny piece of information in your entire brain that you aren't immediately aware of, plus your instincts and unconscious thoughts. It's not great at conversation. Sylvia is only our subconscious interface for that reason, and even she isn't that easy to talk to.

[tulpa001]

I wonder if you will get better results if you switch with Sylvia for a day? Worth the experiment? I think the subconscious is more of a person than some people think. I mean, our walking servitor. What is it? It's our subconcious given life. It's dumb as bricks, but it can do some basic stuff. Eat, shower, whatnot.

 

Then there is stuff like blood pressure control. Which is totally possible. You can't talk to your blood pressure, but you can incorporate the subsystem that controlls it with yourself.

 

Dreams: We've done some thinking about dreams. Like it is so weird how our brain just loses consciousness, then starts with all those pretty pictures. So, like, could you incorporate that part of your cognition into yourself? Do the dreams yourself? I don't know where this line of thinking will take us, but you are inspiring.

 

Fight the power!

[Tewi]

Good timing, I was just about to write our daily post here and go to sleep.

 

I don't think we can switch with Sylvia. She's not as tulpa-like as the rest of us. Aside from slight wonderland presence, she's had no forcing whatsoever. She doesn't have a mindvoice (speaks in pure "tulpish", but she is good at it) and has never been imposed. Actually, I think Lumi imposed her once a long time ago and she just stood there looking at him. She doesn't seem to approve of treating her like a tulpa. Very objective oriented and no-nonsense, but in an emotionless way, not a serious way like me. She also has zero experience thinking her own thoughts, as she generally guides our own automatically. So I don't think there's much there to switch with. She wouldn't do it either way.

 

Your subconscious is as much of a person as you are, it's just a lot less organized. And I think it's too massive to have a clear conversation with. You can influence it (influence yourself), but not with words. When I "talk to" our mind, the words are only a conduit for my intent, and they help focus it a bit too. I don't encourage treating your subconscious like it's its own entity though. Do what you will, but in the end the subconscious is all of "you" that you aren't presently aware of. In a system, it's a shared-you. But it's still you. The thoughts you'll be thinking the next time you see or interact with something will have previously been from your subconscious mind, and there they'll return. Sylvia is a "Subconscious-Interface Tulpa", not an embodiment of it, because it makes more sense that way. You are an embodiment of your subconscious mind. It is most of you as you know you anyways.

 

 

Anyways anyways. I've been up late watching rabbit-petting videos and am very tired. The WBTB method only seems feasible in the middle of our sleeping and not towards the end, because as it stands it's taking me some time to fall back asleep when doing it after only 4-6 hours. Any later and I'll wake the body and mind too much to sleep again. But the results that early in the night are surprisingly not bad, I don't believe we've ever had dreams as vivid as the last few nights' so early into REM sleep. I need to pay more attention to see if their duration is shorter, but somehow their vividity seems the same.

 

Anyways, worst case scenario is we just keep up our dream recall (closely tied to dream vividity/detail) until we spontaneously become lucid. Even if we can't do it on purpose, we really do reality check quite often. One small trigger in a dream where we're just a bit more aware is all it'll take. But I would like to make it a little more reliable than that.

[TheSanctuary]

Phew. 16 pages down. Seeing your commitment to this (all of you) is truly inspiring and I suppose why I had to read the whole thing partly out of respect for the efforts. There's a lot of information here that has certainly given me stuff to think on.

 

I've been more or less inactive here because of motivation issues much like the ones luminescence suffers I think- I've still spent time with Vixen almost every day though and have had similar experiences with lucid dreams as yourself- tried for it a lot (not as much as you guys mind but a reasonable amount to at least consider it an 'effort'.) To this day all that yielded was the one and only moment of sleep paralysis I've ever had that scared the crap out of me and one single lucid dream where I became aware mid dream.

 

Keep shooting for the .. Moon? It'll be worth it when you get there!

 

[edit]

I felt it worth stating that the single lucid dream was not a result of any attempt to lucid dream and happened like ten years ago spontaneously. I feel like had I known then what I know now maybe I coulda learned more from the experience. Ho hum

[Tewi]

Slept straight through most of my dreams last night for some reason. I remember remembering just one, maybe 6 hours in, and not really waking up after that. Maybe I was really just that tired? I don't feel that tired tonight, so hopefully I have some dreams worth remembering. Still not using the melatonin yet, I want our recall to be more stable first.

 

May be switching with Lucilyn soon though, I have nothing to do.

[Tewi]

I don't know how we manage to write something nearly every day. I've got nothing to say. I'd post a song but it's wasted on the last post of the page.

 

I've been letting things stress/annoy me recently, realized it and stopped it. I can deal with being "serious" only if I'm neutral, not negative. Mildly annoyed is not neutral, and I am not not serious.