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Dissociation, separation, etc. help?


Apollo Fire
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My system has been fronting/possessing in various ways for almost a year now, trying out different methods with the hopes of eventually improving. However, when in control, our host is still always there, always able to take full control back without even realizing it. As some may know, our goal is to fully switch. While I have been fronting as much as possible lately, there is still the issue that he simply cannot leave the front, and if he dissociates then I do too. We can't separate enough. 

 

If he dissociates, the body either freezes up or slips into autopilot, even if I am fronting. And if I do something, then he will be snapped out of it. Our focus is tied to each other's, and it becomes a tug-of-war of who pays attention to what rather than it occurring simultaneously.

 

For example, he will be mildly dissociated at work, while the body is on autopilot. If he dissociates enough, the body starts to feel like it falls asleep. If I start to apply myself to the front to do something such as count out change, then this will be reversed and he will be focused, too.

 

If he meditates and dissociates, then afterwards we just feel really sleepy.

 

If I am talking in a voice call and he tries to step away, then I won't be able to speak. If I do, he comes back.

 

Others we've spoken to don't seem to have this problem at all, even people whose tulpas have existed maybe a few weeks. They have this down, and so they have switching down. Try as we might, we can't seem to separate our attention or lack thereof, and if we try then it just ends up being a rapid shift between who does what.

 

I'm trying to talk to others in the system more and have us all talk to each other, so we feel more distinct, at least in reference to mental speech. Maintaining separation through speaking to each other or visualization is difficult, especially if things come up, but that's likely normal and not an issue if we keep trying.

 

What do you think we should do that will increase our ability to separate and eventually switch? I'm not just talking exercises, I'm talking long-term. I want my host to be dissociated and not affect the body whatsoever while I am in full focus and control, without a mental struggle of shifting between attention. 

 

Also, don't link Tulpa001's guide, I am well aware of its existence and have already looked through what's written on this subject there.

 

Additionally, how can my host lose control of the body? Ie, he can't move it at all and has zero input, and instead I am in control.

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Lol, I know I linked Tulpa's guide around a few times, but I wouldn't link it to you. Besides, last I checked he switches with his host and vice versa by basically fighting for control. That's the exact opposite of how we do it. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-our-tulpa-endeavor?pid=186167#pid186167

 

... Wait a minute, that's YOUR thread! Our post in your guys' thread is literally in our list of reference posts as our Switching method. Well, I might not be able to help if that didn't work, but I'll continue writing this post as I was going to before noticing that..

 

 

I never really considered myself capable of "dissociation" as I always imagined it, but what we do is pretty similar in concept at least. But see, dissociation usually entails losing your grasp on what's going on around you. It doesn't for us. It's dissociation from the "driver's seat" of our mind and connection to the body (limbs and such at least). I'm still just as aware as my tulpas are of everything. Anyways, the process is still detailed in that post. I'd say the feeling when doing the dissociation part is like moving your sense of presence over in your mind-space. It helps to first sort of mentally retreat inward, again nothing special, just the effect that closing your eyes and focusing on your thoughts (or wonderland or whatever you want) has. If you open your eyes from there you're just back to where you were again. But in that state, with the help of visualization-symbolism, I move my sense of self (with eyes closed for a bit, sense of self is really just the "position/place" my thoughts are happening in) over to the side of our mind-space, generally where my tulpas reside when active since they don't live in the wonderland. The important part for you guys here is your host needs to feel like she's moved over, away from the "middle" of the mind. She should try and make her thoughts feel like they're coming from whatever side you prefer. That's the majority of the "dissociation" process for us, just moving where it feels like our mental sense of self/presence is. Once the process is a little cleaner it helps to try to dissociate more cleanly by removing your sense of self from the body too, our visualization method being the only way I can think to do that, but perhaps that'd come later.

 

The other part, then, is one of my tulpas doing the reverse, moving their sense of self/presence from wherever they were in the mind to where I was. It helps that they already feel like they exist in a pseudo-space around my head, I guess, but I feel like anyone's capable of doing that. Anyways, it's obviously a huge help that we do the visualization with 'energy silhouettes' as it helps us feel like we really are or aren't as tied to the body. One of us moving our mental sense of self/presence to what feels like the "middle" of our mind isn't necessarily enough to suddenly be in control of the body; we have to, well, associate ourselves with the body too.

 

Since our mental sense of self/sense of presence is about where our heads are when visualizing energy silhouettes (the energy just being the energy of whoever's "silhouette" it is), moving our sense of self/presence to the middle of the mind is easy to sync up with moving the energy silhouette (but nowadays is more often than not only a transparent us and not energy so much) over the body so they line up. It's important the host keep up their sense of self being "over to the side" while the tulpa keeps their sense of self being basically 1 for 1 aligned with the body, especially the heads lining up. I'd say the biggest focus when one of us switches is the point right behind our body's eyes, that's the part that's most important to sync up. The rest might just be for comfort's/symbolism's sake.

 

After switching places, but even before necessarily opening your eyes/finalizing the process, the tulpa taking the host's place can spend a bit of time getting more comfortable with speaking from the middle of the mind, while the host gets used to speaking from a little off to the side. To me, that's how I would teach myself to switch again. I can't see spending much time like that before opening my eyes leading to me snapping back to the front - especially not if my tulpa were still keeping their sense of self in (what was) my place. Speaking is the biggest help here by the way, at least for us. Where it feels like our thoughts are coming from in that mind-space is the biggest indicator of association or dissociation with the body. So, practice having your host attempt to speak "from elsewhere" in the mind.

 

 

But unfortunately, it's easily possible none of that clicks with you even a tiny bit. It's only symbolism that happened to click well for us. Well, it didn't really click because we had to feel it out ourselves, but yeah. Everyone has to feel out switching and possession (but especially switching) themselves. Even if they follow someone else's method and it works great, they still have to feel out the process. As someone who's certainly not new to struggling with something where others succeed easily (lucid dreaming), I'll say you really shouldn't worry about how fast or easily others learned to switch. Switching and tulpamancy in general is a wibbly-wobbly process that's much more based in imagination than people realize. People with "more open" minds, the ones more likely to naturally indulge in fantasy, will likely have an easier time, just because it's easier for their mind to accept.

 

My mind doesn't accept anything without fully understanding the process, like in things with math - sometimes while learning a new process I come to the correct answer before fully understanding how I got there, but I won't consider myself to have solved the problem at all. The process needs to click and be totally clear before I feel like I did it, stumbling my way through is unacceptable. So yeah, there's that, in case you felt like switching just came naturally to everyone. We had to work through it like everything else.

 

Anyways.. Just keep trying, I guess. Try and mix things up however you can, whenever you can. Again I'm no stranger to failing despite my best efforts while others succeed easily (by comparison in my eyes, even if they don't think it was easy), so you've at least got one person who understands how you feel. At least you've got like partial success going on though. That'd be like seeing my tulpas in my dreams every so often but still failing to realize I'm dreaming/become lucid. That's absolutely not the case, but I'm still working at it anyways, you know?

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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