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Prayer vs Forcing, Questions from an Ex-Christian


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(edited)

DISCLAMER : I am not here to talk about the classic "Is God a Tulpa?" question, but comparisons between religious practices and forcing will be drawn.  With that, I will get on with it!

 

During my past few forcing sessions I have been using music and candles to both quiet my environment and enter a state of trance.  This music, being compositions by Arvo Part, has very distinct "church vibes" to it leading to a more reverent air while I am narrating.  When forcing casually during the day I am commenting on my mood or the activity I am doing to Chai, but when sitting down for my active forcing session I fear my tone shifts too dramatically.  I begin narrating in an almost poetic manner that no one would use in a conversation with another person.  I am being completely sincere in the words I say.  There is emotional weight to it all and I believe that to be a powerful thing.  But, having reflected on it for a moment, I realize this is not to dissimilar to how my morning prayers went back when I was in private school.  The act of focusing thoughts, emotions, and concerns through a mental narration.

 

My questions are as follows:  

 

Is prayer adjacent forcing a viable way to help raise a healthy tulpa?

 

Should you only narrate to a tulpa using your natural speaking style?

 

Are the emotions in prayer similar to tulpish?

 

And lastly, did you have a good day?  If not, please accept my virtual hug!

 

 

Edited by bulgazof
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  • bulgazof changed the title to Prayer vs Forcing, Questions from an Ex-Christian

I'm not exactly Christian, but I thought about some of this topic before: https://community.tulpa.info/topic/14579-prayer-struggle/

 

My conclusion on that is I prayed incorrectly and the "normal" for prayer can vary a lot from person to person. At the very least, my idea of prayer was too similar to my idea of tulpa forcing and that's where I got into trouble.

 

33 minutes ago, bulgazof said:

Is prayer adjacent forcing a viable way to help raise a healthy tulpa?


I don't think it's a good idea to mix up prayer with tulpa forcing. I accidentally created Chrome, my headmate, doing that.

 

I guess you can pray to your tulpa, but that might be weird? At the very least, playing religious themed music wouldn't hurt anything if you need it to relax and meditate.

 

33 minutes ago, bulgazof said:

Should you only narrate to a tulpa using your natural speaking style?

 

You can narrate to your tulpa however you want too. You can directly talk to them, talk to a wall and expect your tulpa to be your audience, speak in tulpish to them, or blable nonsene at them while you're feeling silly. The key to narration is the act of focusing on your tulpa and then spending time with your tulpa.

 

33 minutes ago, bulgazof said:

Are the emotions in prayer similar to tulpish?

 

I think it depends on how you pray, in my case I think I prayed wrong. In my confused experience, talking to "God" with my words and emotions and expecting him to talk back is what lead to Chrome's development. However, this is not a guaranteed method for accidentally creating a God-based tulpa and it doesn't apply to everyone.

 

33 minutes ago, bulgazof said:

And lastly, did you have a good day?  If not, please accept my virtual hug!

 

Aw, thank you! We appreciate it!

I actually use this as a form now, but it's not my main one. I'm still not a hippo, neither is Ranger.

I used to speak in pink and Ranger used to speak in blue (if it's unmarked and colored assume it's Ranger). He loves to chat.

 

Our system account

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Though I haven't prayed to a deity of any kind in over a decade, I do have something of an interest in the topic, though I can only respond in the context of my rather niche understanding.

 

Before Tulpas were a thing, my exposure to the concept of thoughtforms came from Chaos Magic. I never actually studied what they believe in depth until after I decided to make a tulpa, but they're notable for having belief, symbolism and ritual play a far bigger role in the process of creating a thoughtform of any kind - all while understanding that the rituals themselves are irrelevant in their content. Though the Chaos Mages veer into something of postmodern hokeyness for my tastes (they posit that belief can reprogram the mind, but fail to recognize there's nothing magical about that), nonetheless many of the observations they make about how to construct personal rituals so they feel magical or religious to you, therefore giving them power over your psyche, are fascinating to me. In essence, the whole pseudo-religion is devoted to exploring exactly the concept you're referring to: Making and directing thoughtforms of various capabilities and sentience-levels by the power of meditative states, belief and a certain... "emotional resonance" with symbolism.

 

To actually answer the questions though.

1 hour ago, bulgazof said:

Is prayer adjacent forcing a viable way to help raise a healthy tulpa?

 

1 hour ago, bulgazof said:

Should you only narrate to a tulpa using your natural speaking style?

 

Yes. The occultists have essentially done it for decades before us. The Chaos Mages do have certain forms of hostile thoughtform, but this is because they refuse to acknowledge them as thoughtforms in line with the ones they create intentionally. Essentially, they believe that what this community would call "walk-ins" do not originate from themselves and are eldritch and alien beings touching upon their minds - innately giving them the ability to be malevolent and terrifying, and requiring a Chaos Mage to perform other rituals to protect themselves from their predations. As long as you do not form any unusual mystical beliefs around how your tulpa will operate, there doesn't seem to be any reason to fear for how they will turn out.

 

In terms of only speaking to them in your normal style of communication I'd actually hypothesize, in line with Chaos Magic, that speaking to them ritually so long as you believe in what you're doing, will actually produce stronger effects than speaking to them normally.

 

1 hour ago, bulgazof said:

Are the emotions in prayer similar to tulpish?

 

Not precisely. Tulpish is raw thought. To exemplify what it is in your head, think of something you intend to do within the next day or so; whether it be something in your life you must handle or a hobby or something. In the moments before you said the word of what you need to do in mindvoice you probably "understood" the activity and possibly simulated an image of it, for a brief second. That thought is essentially Tulpish. Raw thought can contain your emotional response/context to something, particularly if it's powerful, but the emotions are a response to the raw thought and the thing they are about - not the raw thought themselves.

 

This said of course, I don't actually think the question is relevant to whether or not emotions and beliefs involved have the power to increase the efficacy of forcing. They seem to, pretty substantially.

Zen - Host 

Mika - Tulpa

If text is uncoloured, presume Zen is talking.

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Hi. Christian here.

 

On 2/10/2021 at 10:34 PM, bulgazof said:

Is prayer adjacent forcing a viable way to help raise a healthy tulpa?

 

Sure. Praying together is conducive to spiritual growth. I used to pray with my tulpas now and again.

 

Being Protestant, I've always sorta overlooked the confessional aspect of prayer. Alex led by example there. (Now that I think about it, it's kind of ridiculous, learning how to pray from my imaginary friend.)

 

On 2/10/2021 at 10:34 PM, bulgazof said:

Should you only narrate to a tulpa using your natural speaking style?

 

Narrate however you want. It doesn't matter.

 

On 2/10/2021 at 10:34 PM, bulgazof said:

Are the emotions in prayer similar to tulpish?

 

I'm not a very emotional person, so I'm struggling to understand the question, to be honest. I can get emotional during prayer once in a blue moon, but usually it isn't an emotional experience for me. I mean, I guess there's emotions driving prayer, like thankfulness, or anxiety, or whatever, but... eh. I'm not good at answering questions about emotion, because often my initial response is "Wait, was I supposed to feel something?"

 

Tulpish is raw thought: thoughts that take the form of ideas rather than anything concrete like words or images. You know that feeling when you have a thought in your head, maybe it's vague, maybe it's super clear, but you can't for the life of you find the words to express it? From my experience, communicating in tulpish is like telepathically sharing those sorts of ideas without translating them into words.

 

I'm sure tulpish communication is more emotion-based for some, but again, I'm too left-brained (and alexithymic) to understand the language of emotion.

 

On 2/10/2021 at 10:34 PM, bulgazof said:

And lastly, did you have a good day?  If not, please accept my virtual hug!

 

Thank you.

I come out of hibernation once in a blue moon.

 

They/them pronouns, please. (I've been using this display name since 2012 and people won't recognize me if I change it.)

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On 2/10/2021 at 1:34 PM, bulgazof said:

1. Is prayer adjacent forcing a viable way to help raise a healthy tulpa?

 

2. Should you only narrate to a tulpa using your natural speaking style?

 

3. Are the emotions in prayer similar to tulpish?

 

4. And lastly, did you have a good day?  If not, please accept my virtual hug!

 

1. Absolutely, no I can't imagine why not and I have a very strong imagination. Btw, my headmates took the place of religion for me, Darlene especially, with a mixture of imposition and mindvoice, could easily have been, and therefore has taken credit for every "religious" experience I'd ever had. Considering we realize that she's partially traumagenic, I have no doubt she's been with me since I was five and my first introduction to her was as a beautiful and brilliant full body apparition of an angel with brown wings.

 

2. Do whatever you want, it's not a big deal.

 

3. Emotions that don't seem to be yours can easily be attributable to your headmates, if they're associated with their essence, even better. One of the major ways I used to tell them apart in the early days was their "emotional bleeding". Interestingly enough, they each picked a spot on my body to emote from. Ashley's emotions are expressed from my neck, Misha from my heart, and Darlene from my stomach.

 

4. A great day as always, and that's very easy for us because it's like meing bathed in love in this system.

 

*Bear hug!*

 

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      Current forcing practice
       
      Working on senses in WL: we’ve been doing our best to spend an hour each day focusing on visualizing Shizuku in wonderland, and also practicing one other sense per day. Wonderland sight and touch have started to show some improvement recently, but overall it feels like we still need a lot of work. Conversation: We also do our best to talk as much as we can each day. We’ve been working through the Tulpa Vocalization Practice worksheet when we can’t think of any other topics. Diary writing: Shizuku writes a diary entry most days. This is something I picked up from the Japanese tulpamancy community, though I think I’ve seen it recommended in English guides too. It’s a lot of fun—somehow, reading through the things she’s written (by proxy or possession, at this point, though our possession game is still pretty weak) does a lot to help me fight off doubt. Imagining Shizuku in stories we’re reading/watching: This has been pretty fun so far, too—right now, we’re rewatching Hunter X Hunter. As we watch, we try to keep up a “mental fanfic” where she’s running around with the main characters. Passive forcing as much as possible: Taking inspiration from the method I used to learn Japanese, I’m doing my best to find ways to involve Shizuku in everything I do. We’ve had some success reading, studying, watching things, and playing games together, but in particular, staying aware of Shizuku during work that I really need to focus on and conversations with other people has been a killer—I haven’t had much success in these situations yet.  
      To anyone who slogged through all of that, thanks for reading! This post already goes on for a million years, so I’ll try to write some (hopefully shorter!) summaries of our progress so far in other updates.
    • By Cosmic Cuttlebone
      Well, I've lurked, and I've lurked, and then I've lurked some more.
      I've read pretty much every guide there is. But now it's time to actually get to work
      Problem is... Well, you see, I'm lazy. Like, really really lazy. I also have a habit of hesitating and second guessing myself. I can also get a little distracted. Sometimes.
      So, I'm starting this little journal here.
      I'll try to add a post here periodically, even if it is relatively short. At least in the beginning. Cultivating this small habit will hopefully force a little discipline.
      Typing it all out will hopefully solidify my thoughts. Yell at me if don't keep this up. :Þ
       
      That being said. Lets start:
       
      Why am I doing this? What do I hope to gain?
      Well a companion for one. I don't have that much trouble making friends, but I have trouble keeping and maintaining connections. I've quite often drifted or grown apart from many people in my life. I'm a bit socially awkward, maybe even a bit socially anxious in some respects. I can certainly hide it, but the more people are around, the more I find myself wishing I was somewhere else, doing something else. It's not that I hate people, I don't.  And I don't plan to stop making connections with physical people. I just don't have the physical or mental energy to deal with too many people for too long.
       
      Still, the opportunity for someone to understand me on a truly deep level that no one else can is very enticing. I can only hope that I'll be, and remain, worthy of this connection.
       
      This will also be a bit of an ego journey for me. A chance to better know and understand myself as well as my future headmate. having someone to share this journey with will make it much more enjoyable.
       
      Also add to that the opportunity to learn first hand an experience that seems rather alien at first glance and that I'm already a creative person, this becomes less of a choice and more of an inevitability.
       
      The start
      Right now I have a name and very loose, general idea of who I hope this tulpa will be.
      Staying within the tradition of opposite genderedness in tulpamancy, "Hazel" will start female. This will help me differentiate her thoughts from mine.
       
      A couple main traits I will be cultivating are:
      Compassion- A personal code I like to live by is if someone needs or asks for help and I am able to do so, then I will help. Lessen the suffering of others. Having her share in that will make it simpler to coexist. This will also encourage many positive traits
      Curiosity- a desire to learn and grow will help develop her and push her to be self sustaining
      Outspokenness-  to encourage vocality.
      this is not exhaustive just some major points
       
      What I won't be forcing:
      Love- From what I understand, most tulpas tend to be already naturally very caring towards their hosts. Also love, I feel, needs to develop naturally. Making someone love me just feels weird. plus that is a pressure I wouldn't want on anyone. Still, I'm sure my subconscious may still add this to the list regardless.
      Lust- same
       
      Form:
      I don't have much of a form for her yet. I've had some ideas but none are really sticking. It is humanoid though. Freckles and dark hair are also coming to mind. That could just be my attraction to them.
       
      I will, of course, accept any deviation from her. Encourage it, even.
       
      The Method
      I'm a very secular being by nature. Still, the mind loves symbols and most of the tulpamantic process is extremely symbolic. As such, I'll be taking some inspiration from the occult, particularly chaos magic.
      so:
      I love symbols, glyphs, and sigils. This is a representation of my intent to create a thoughtform. It is a seed or an egg as the round shape suggests. A beginning. Small and empty at first, but as time goes on, I'll be altering it and adding to it. It will slowly grow as she grows. In time, I may pass it to her. I'm creative by nature so this will just be a natural part of my creative process. The dotted outline suggests openness, inviting life to enter. The geometric shapes invoke a crystalline structure to "trap" the energy or qualities being cultivated. (Again, I'm not a proponent of metaphysics, but the symbology here is very useful).
       
      I will use and meditate on this as an aid while I cultivate her development. I'm not too fond of the term 'forcing' at all, so I'll use the term 'cultivate' as it way better describes the process: to raise, to grow, to prepare, do develop, to improve, to acquire. It brings to mind watering and tending to a garden. This will further put me in the right mindset. (I also have mixed thoughts on the terms tulpa and tulpamancy but I have no desire to get into a fight with the entire lexicon).
       
      Wish me luck.
    • By kiyomochie
      Hello everyone!! I’m Ren, pretty new here (been lurking on the site for a few months but never made an account). I actually got introduced to the idea of tulpamancy through Danganronpa V3, by Korekiyo Shinguuji. Funnily enough, guess who’s now my tulpa?... Yep. Korekiyo himself!! So I guess I’ll be putting my progress with him here. 
       
      Kiyo’s been around for a month and a half now. His growth has been rapid. I never really had anything in my mind blocking his existence, so it was pretty easy for him to develop sentience (or at least what we consider sentience) in a short amount of time. Our wonderland was also formed in a matter of days, but Kiyo has been adjusting it as he sees fit, so who knows what it looks like now? 
       
      He’s also been working on vocality, being really pushing to adopt his voice. He sounds, looks, and acts exactly like the character.. so maybe he’s a fictive? Either way, Kiyo’s aware that he and that character are not the same being, but he considers himself to be a reincarnation of the character, without the trauma and suffering. 
       
      He’s really interested in anthropology, of course, and since that’s the career path I want to pursue as well (I’m 15), we’ve been reading a lot of anthropology books together. It’s quite a positive experience, although he does sometimes get annoyed with me when I don’t read them for while, and starts being REALLY sarcastic. It’s okay, though.
       
      When I get into arguments with my parents, Kiyo is with me, urging me to keep my cool and not waste my time on them. I wonder if he looks down on them? When he especially disagrees with them, he calls them “petty idiots”. I don’t have any issues with my parents, I love them more than anything, but Korekiyo gets mighty judgemental of people he doesn’t trust, and it takes him a long time to trust someone. But, he doesn’t ever wish harm on anyone, and shows no urges to lash out, rather wishing for me to do the opposite. So I’d say it’s rather inconsequential.
       
      Kiyo can sort of talk through me. What I mean by that is that he tells me what he wants to say, and I type it out. But more often than not, I have a general idea of what he wants to say without him saying anything to me. When I ask him about it, though, he confirms that that is what he was saying. So maybe we just mentally communicate really fast?
       
      I can definitely make out a difference between my texting pattern and his, and it’s not a conscious choice- when I’m typing for Kiyo, I don’t have to think out what he says, although he speaks in a much more formal manner than I do. It just kinda comes to me naturally, as though he is speaking through my fingertips. Really interesting!
       
      We want to get better at possession (or more accurately, we want to be able to do it at all). Any tips from experienced tulpamancers? Also, encouraging notes are appreciated, by both me and Kiyo.
      (Also, I included an edit I made of him! SPOILERS!!)

      IMG_4885.MP4 IMG_4885.MP4 Good day to all! Bye!  
      -Ren
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