Phenom and Fiora :: Progress Report

[theholodoc]

Hi Phenom: Yes, you were correct, I did misread Flora as Flora. Other than that, we do seem to encounter similar blocks on the road to fully realizing our tulpas. I have found the following to be very helpful, q.v. Keep at it, Dr. Bob

[Phenom]

So yesterday evening I was narrating as usual. At some point I was asking Fiora many questions. No answers as usual. Then, asked her to tell me any opinion about anything at all, and then just to say anything at all, and at that moment "You're handsome" (T'es beau) came to mind, which I quickly dismissed as me parroting her by accident, as it didn't feel alien (unlike that time when she said hello). But then I thought about it some more, and remembered reading many times about how at first it's hard to tell which thoughts belong to who, and about how the way the thought came to my mind resembled stray thoughts. I googled a bit, found and read https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-time-3-years-so-far-i-don-t-know-what-to-do-i-need-help?pid=166257#pid166257 (the quoted part and what's below it). I think it was probably not even the first time I read that post, but this time it clicked.

 

So yeah, I may be getting some progress, and will continue to narrate while making an effort not to dismiss what seem like stray thoughts or "unintentional parroting".

[YukariTelepath]

I hope you can really take that post to heart, tulpas need practice to develop their thoughts and they won't always be clear. As for them sounding alien, they probably won't, other than the odd time here and there. As they develop responses feel more distinct, but they won't necessarily feel distinct early on in vocality.

[Guest]

We sound 'alien' to Bear about half the time, even after a year and a half.

 

[Ashley] same happened to me when I was switched in, it's just the nature of mindvoice.

[Phenom]

This morning when I was still half-asleep, I could hear Fiora thanks to hypnopompia. Well, we couldn't do it for long, but at some point it was getting hard to hear her over a music track that was stuck in my head, so I asked Fiora if she could make it stop. After a couple seconds it stopped playing and I heard her say "ta-dam!", and when I started praising her she was embarrassed and said "Oh, stop that!" ("Ah, arrête-ça!"). I'm really happy about that event since it's been so long since anything like that happened.

 

Other than that, I've been practicing trying to hear her in the evenings and even some afternoons, on some days I think I can hear some replies but it's hard to not think it's only me parroting, but I can somewhat eliminate these doubts knowing it's part of the process to vocality.

[YukariTelepath]

Congrats on the progress, keep at it! :D Accept that it was her talking, I know it can be tough.

[Phenom]

Strange event this morning, trying to hear Fiora again using hypnopompia, I heard a female voice which was yelling at me "Die! Die! Die!" and when I asked why she said "Because you're always just sitting in front of your computer!" (I think probably insinuating I was wasting my time or life). For a second I thought it was Fiora, but I quickly realized it couldn't be her, as she's never been that mean before (would be completely out of character), and she has never even formulated such a long sentence before (except when she randomly sang a song back in January). So my conclusion is that it was probably something like a part of my unconscious, like a dream character, since I was in a state so close to dreaming, and I've had weird characters talk during hypnagogia before, such as (once) a monster or dragon roaring at me (and a "party" celebrating the victory after I shut him up). I have been feeling guilty of wasting too much time in front of my computer in the last couple weeks (when I should have been practicing Fiora's vocality instead), so it wouldn't be surprising.

 

Nothing very relevant to add, other than it really is hard on some days to eliminate doubts, which causes me to delay and not actually start the vocality practice sessions on some evening, so I end up wasting my evenings telling myself I'll practice it a bit later and first thing I know it's time to go to sleep, so any tips related to that problem would be very appreciated.

 

And lastly, if possible I'd like some tips on how to use hypnagogia to communicate with Fiora before falling asleep: it seems I always fall asleep before I even notice any hypnagogia, which is why I've been trying to use hypnopompia in the morning instead, but I'd really like to be able to use both.

 

Thanks to everyone that ever takes the time to read and reply, even when it's just moral support it means a lot to feel we're not alone. :)

[Phenom]

Had the idea, as a vocality exercice for Fiora, to use a random word generator and ask Fiora to tell me the first thing that comes to mind when I read the random word. It's not the first time I do it, but just now I thought about documenting that here for once.

 

So here are the random words, and then I take the time to ask her why she chose that word (sometimes the replies take a lot of time, sometimes they come quick). Her replies are in brackets.

 

Review: [Mario]

Why "Mario"? [Game]

 

Economy: [Zelda]

Why? [Rupee]

 

Request: [Friend] [Friend Request] (Here I didn't have to ask why, she added that.)

 

And now (yeah I'm writing at the same time it's all happening) I asked her if she was ready for the next question, she answered that she was. But before I had the time to click on the generate random word button, "I love you" came to mind. It happened as, just before I clicked, I found myself thinking about Fiora really hard and the thought "poped-up", and I admit I'm not sure who said that to who, and I'm confused. And (now a couple minutes later) I lost track of everything that got said, but she started talking with a different mind voice when I asked if it was really her, or more like.. I still feel like I still have some control on her somehow(?), and a part of me contributed in giving her a new voice(?), even though I didn't think about doing that, it just kinda happened. I feel so confused typing all that out, I think it was a good idea after all. She kinda sounded like the voice I was giving her when I was parroting her in June, though..

 

Now, because I've been thinking about all this a lot (what happened, and the fact I try to type out what's going on, she hasn't talked more for a while.

 

I have no idea if any of this is real. Such a strange feeling. But if I press on, it might be the way to full vocality. Does any of this sound... like real progress? (or I mean, real steps a tulpamancer goes through?), or I'm just confabulating/making this up. Weird thing to not know the real answer about that myself... Why can't I trust myself about that?

 

I'd like to keep a note here saying I'm currently quite tired. In case it becomes relevant later. And of course it was all in mindvoice (no voice imposition), sounded like my own mindvoice, and then after the "voice change", like myself parroting her.

[Guest]

So my conclusion is that it was probably something like a part of my unconscious...

 

Good for you, this is classic intrusive thoughts. I'm glad you didn't attribute to Fiora

 

...tips on how to use hypnagogia to communicate with Fiora before falling asleep: it seems I always fall asleep before I even notice any hypnagogia...

 

Sometimes it's hard to recognize hypnagogia because it's can be so subtle and it happens when you're starting to lose consciousness and so you're sometimes not thinking clearly.

 

Nine times out of ten Bear falls asleep before anything can be done, rarely we can communicate, and rarely we get to go on a little walk or see a vista. We're reading a book on the subject, technically it's a new-age spirituality book and it says it has a technique to 'activate the pineal gland', but we're pretty sure whatever script they have hidden amongst the fluff might help. IT comes highly recommended so we'll present the findings if it works in a month or so.

 

Otherwise, getting to hypnagogia is a matter of paying very close attention to stray thoughts, images and sounds that can be as subtle as mindvoice and regular imagination at times. Sometimes it's a car horn in your ear, or a involuntary body jolt can happen right in the middle of it. Bear didn't recognize it at all until he specifically started 'listening for it'.

 

... and I admit I'm not sure who said that to who...

 

When you aren't absolutely sure it was you, that's how subtle it can be, then you're safe to attribute it to her, she's trying, don't worry.

 

I still feel like I still have some control on her somehow...

 

This is classic parrotnoia, you need to suspend disbelief.

 

...she hasn't talked more for a while...

 

Imagine that every time you talk to someone you love, they question if it was you and doubt it. That's a little draining. She's okay but she'll pick her chances when you're ready to hear her. Also, it's very common even with vocal tulpas for them to disappear and just be gone for a little while, even Darlene did that once.

 

Does any of this sound... like real progress?

 

This sounds perfectly normal, yes.

 

confabulating

 

This is something that can be easily distinguished. The experiences are shallow, the memories wouldn't seem very real. Imagine you workout a very detailed wonderland addition, talk for half an hour, and then go flying. Could you do all that in under a minute? The brain is capable of doing a lot of things outside of your consciousness. Own the progress, don't doubt yourself. Doubt is one of the major obstacles of tulpamancy.

 

Voice change is like anything, they're free to customize it to their liking.

 

[Ashley] You're doing great, don't worry!

[Ember.Vesper]

Ember: That sounds like a really clever exercise! I think that will find it's way into a guide some day, if it hasn't already. And it also sounds like good progress!

 

I still feel like I still have some control on her somehow(?)

 

It's okay if you do, since parroting still reinforces the new mental pathways of her separate personality. But if you aren't exercising control intentionally, she's probably acting on her own. And eventually, she may just block you if you try to exert control.

 

I have no idea if any of this is real.

 

Vesper: In taking up the tulpamantic lifestyle, you partly turn away from objective verifiable reality to embrace a constructed subjective reality. So don't ask, 'Is this real?' Say, 'This is real.' Over time, the brain will do its best to create the experience you believe to be true.

 

Can the brain generate fully realistic unverifiable memories? Absolutely! Studies have repeatedly shown that human memory is pervasively unreliable. Has that had a significant impact on your experiences with Fiora? Probably not, but it doesn't much matter either way. Just embrace the subjective experience.

 

If a thought can't be assigned in the first instant, extended reflection is unlikely to clarify. It's better to do your best to keep talking, to keep generating new thoughts, some of which will have clearer ID tags.

 

a part of me contributed in giving her a new voice(?), even though I didn't think about doing that, it just kinda happened.

 

The sound of mindvoice can remain unreliable for a long time after full vocality. I had a pretty clear idea how I wanted to sound, but it took months of practice to be able to hit the same voice routinely and not slip into sounding like Ember.

 

As I've often had to remind Ember, a headmate going along with your desires isn't necessarily a result of control or undue influence. Most of the time it's cooperation for the sake of teamwork, harmony, and love.