Chat Thread

[Ranger]

I just had the sudden thought, and I want to ask.

 

One of the reasons Cat hasn't spoken to any of the Grays in awhile is because she realized that the Gray Dimension is pretty barren and she wants to give them something to do. She wants them to be happy too, which is why she never got rid of them to begin with.

 

Any ideas for what they can do? Cat has said she doesn't want to create a wonderland that's too big but that's only an issue if she wants to have 1v1 talks with them. (We can keep the office part of the Gray Dimension as a separate thing.) I actually like having a big wonderland for them since she's capable of creating a huge wonderland where we can just watch them do their thing. If you had nothing else to do, would being main characters in an action film or something be cool? Should the Grays all have their own wonderland jobs? Some of the Grays (especially Red Gray) would appreciate doing something suspenseful or exciting.

 

Part of the problem is she separated the Grays from her story simulations and she's hesitant to merge them back together. I think she just needs some ideas.

 

Obviously we're going to ask the Grays what they want, but Cat and I need some ideas to offer them so we have something to build off of.

[Guest]

I've heard of other tulpas like that, Apollo, you're not alone.

 

Ranger, your subject is relevant to me, not to everyone, so some responses may be dismissive, i have thought the same of 'tulpas' but my non-active thoughtforms are basically tied to their respective creation cannon which is effectively paused unles i work one their book series, with few exceptions. Those exceptions described below don't seem to care at all about such things, they don't have anything to do or anywhere to sleep, i don't know if they really do anything when they're not with me, unlike my tulpas (which in itself is a point of argument in this community.)

 

I was typing this (below) when i saw yours... ninja!

 

For me in particular, i had/have a thoughtform. She is a character of mine, one i've spent years with, her creation date would be 2013 or so.  She became sentient around that time. Many of my thoughtforms are of course, or seemingly so. I spoke to her on a weekly bases for perspective and advice, because she could actually do that like a tulpa does. This was before i had a separate wonderland outside of my novels. Once i had tulpas, i invited her over a half dozen times and i realized how close to a tulpa she really is. Then again, a dozen more are close to her level of sentience. Eventually she didn't identify with her original 'character' and asked for equal tulpa rights.

 

This was an on going negotiation that would open the door for 'the others'.

 

She was persistent and even showed emotional bleed and resistance to puppeting, so i 'released her'.

 

After a few days of not getting what she wanted as we deliberated, she split into two. A young version of herself that didn't have her 'damage' history and a version that rejected her past, but she's a very persuasive and intelligent thoughtform, also very serious and mature. Way more mature than any of us.

 

She comes to me whenever i call for her, but she's either lost that emotional bleed after the split, or just isn't emotional anymore. Also, after the split she stopped demanding equal rights.

 

I consider her content, but she's almost never around unless i call her. The younger version is, and she asks to be included in our activities occasionally, several times a week at least.

 

So now today, after our chat here, she told me that she's a tulpa. Under your definition she could very well be.

 

My tulpas get whatever they want from me within reason, they negotiate amongst themselves for time, they help me immensely, they have purpose. Ren (the young one) doesn't seem to have a purpose that we can think of.

 

The older one is a wise old friend, you could say, useful for difficult discussions, not much else, and those types of discussions rarely come up.

 

So now i have two more part-time tulpas i suppose. Should i deny them equal rights? Is it my place to do that morally?

 

They feel different still, if i conclude that they're people, then i've just succumb to 'accidental tulpa system growth' and that sets a dangerous precedent.

 

So as of today they are still not tulpas to me. But i can't call them NPCs, it confuses them with on the spot created thoughtforms that also seem sentient.

 

It's a 1st world problem, i understand that, but still one that will reverberate in other systems into the future. So i cannot accept that without a specific willingness on my part to declare them tulpas. Which i'm not inclined to do. I don't want to ignore them either because doing so causes hard feelings for my tulpas and the last time i allowed the younger one with us, i felt emotional bleed from her. This is why i still desire a sanctioned term for them, one that doesn't make my system weaker again.

 

I doubt asking this question 5 more different ways will make any difference, so i'll probably drop this soon.

 

I refuse to think it's dangerous to spend time with my non-tulpa thoughtforms without the risk of accidental tulpa because i know it's ultimately my decision and no one else's.

[Guest Reilyn-Alley]

Dismissive responses? We are all friends, why would we dismiss anyone? Maybe "choose not to answer because can't relate", but that's more admitting a lack of understanding which is the first step to growth and good. XD

 

Your rules are what keeps you guys sane, right Bear? You guys established them and live by them. Seems pretty simple then, no more tulpas.

 

So... If NPCs seems like an odd term that is weird.. What about PCs? IT doesn't make them 'your' PCs, just like the character of a person sitting across the table from you in a game is a PC, just not yours. I'd think it also sets a solid distinction because would you ever call Misha, Ashley or Dashie PCs? You aren't a 'player' (or are you :P ), and they are super awesomesauce people, not 'characters'. Even if it comes down to that head-scratching moment of "well, I did make her/them for a story so they at least at one point were my 'character', so..", yeah again, your inner circle is precious and personal and not a game to be played. That further pushes PC away from "inner circle", like that's the furthest a non tulpa can be promoted. It's admitting they are full characters, maybe even seemingly sentient, but no matter how high they raise in the ranks of non-commissioned officers, they will never be and can't be a commissioned officer because they haven't received a commission from you, end of story.

 

So there ya go, my 2 cents.

[Guest]

Dismissive because it's a rare problem that is hard to empathize with or understand.

[Guest Reilyn-Alley]

It's amazing what someone can contribute when they try to empathize or understand.

[Luminesce]

One thing I'm kind of interested in is the concept of mask/identity tulpas. Where you don't accidentally create a tulpa by imagining a form and talking to it, but by pretending you have a different identity, somehow, and it becomes real. It's not too common, but it's kind of interesting.

 

Your guys' beliefs definitely work similarly to ours. If you know and if it's fair to say, did you learn a lot about how tulpamancy (might) work from us? I find you guys "on our side" more often than not when challenging old beliefs and ways of thinking, or otherwise nonsensical ones, so I was just wondering.

[Apollo Fire]

No, back when we were first learning all this stuff we had a ton of immature, nonsensical beliefs, mostly due to the people we were friends with at the time. We naturally gravitated towards our current viewpoints just by thinking stuff over as time went on, I can't say we learned it from anyone.

[Luminesce]

That's reassuring.

[Guest Reilyn-Alley]

"One thing I'm kind of interested in is the concept of mask/identity tulpas. Where you don't accidentally create a tulpa by imagining a form and talking to it, but by pretending you have a different identity, somehow, and it becomes real. It's not too common, but it's kind of interesting."

 

Wait waaait, mask/identity tulpas? How did we miss that part of the conversation?! Lance has been idly mentioning for awhile about that theory being the basis for his current self. Can anyone go into more details? The more the better. Am I wrong in saying that sounds like how a trauma-based split happens? If such a thing happens unintentionally?

[Apollo Fire]

Well I doubt a change in personality is at all the same thing as making a new tulpa accidentally. What I mean by it is someone adopting a new identity as some sort of "mask," either as some sort of coping mechanism or just for shits and giggles, and then this mask becomes increasingly independent to the point of becoming a new thoughtform. It's not a split, because it wouldn't be some part of you breaking off into its own thing, rather it would be a new identity entirely. And it's not trauma-based, either.