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[Switching] System stalemate! (taking over the front forcefully)
#1
So, here's a bit of food for thought, nothing too serious.

Yesterday, Indigo was getting a little carried away with something, and Apollo said "If you don't stop, I'm going to take over the front." Indigo heeded the warning, because we can take over the front forcefully (and accidentally for that matter), without needing consent. 

However, I was thinking about this a bit earlier today. Sure, Apollo could have taken the front, but Indigo could have taken it back. They could hypothetically enter a tug-of-war over who was in the front. The only thing that's really required for us to take over is for us to be active, and the only way to truly prevent someone else from taking over is to make them go inactive. I just took over while he was writing this! So, hypothetically speaking, we could all end up in some sort of stalemate over who controls the front, and the stalemate would only be broken when somebody gave in. Of course, our system is way too cooperative/synergized to do something like that, as I said, this is hypothetical.

On the other hand, if someone was fronting and tried to mentally "hold down the fort" so to speak, they could end up preventing anyone else from taking over, so it becomes a battle of wills, and whoever has a stronger will would probably prevail (or the one in the front would prevail, since they have the upper hand. Or do they?). Again, not something we have to worry about, lol. 

Any thoughts on this sort of subject, getting into a stalemate or having some sort of battle for the front? Ever happened to you? Why did you win/lose/end up in a stalemate? Etc. I dunno, might seem a bit of an odd question, I find it interesting. 
I'm Piano Soul, the "Star Man" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa formed January 2017. My systemmates are Apollo & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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#2
Vesper: Fighting for the front was something Tulpa001 gloried in. It's not something I care for, but Ember and I try it sometimes for experimental purposes. Iris doesn't want to participate. When we first started switching, Ember was weak as a kitten in the mental domain, but she's gotten much stronger.

Having the front doesn't seem to convey much advantage to us in keeping the front, but then we don't intentionally make one another go inactive. I can force possession or switching easily and Ember hasn't managed to stop me, though she can offer meaningful resistance to possession now. She not very good at possession in general, even when I put my full attention on forcing her.

Using our concussive method of switching, I find I can simply ignore and disbelieve Ember's efforts to take back the front. But for the first time today, she managed to slip in through the voice box and take control against my resistance.

It seems like the result of sustaining a struggle over the voice is losing track of not only who is in control, but who is even who. Stalemate=merger. Yuck.

Ember: Stalemates require headmates with relatively equal power levels in the mental domain, which many systems, including ours, don't have.

Emotions add power though. My wives C & L were fairly balanced for many years. When C got white-hot enraged with L, it empowered her to push L down and hold her there. Any time L regained a flicker of awareness, C's rage flaired up, until L was too weakened to resist. C told me their system had spontaneously re-organized and L was just gone. I had no choice but to believe her until C became complacent enough that L broke through -- two years later.
Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]
Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017
Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Unseelie Court, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#3
Yes we have, the answer in my specific case is that no one is in front enough and cue heavy dissociation. Don't recommend it. -J
Three brothers. [Progress Report] [Art] [Oops! All Jamie]

"You are the messenger, not the message. You are just like everyone else."
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#4
(03-28-2019, 09:07 PM)Ember.Vesper Wrote: Emotions add power though.

I can certainly see this being the case. Sometimes emotions make it difficult for us to leave the front, or we end up in a blendy mess. Definitely someone with strong emotions would have an advantage in preventing others from fronting.

J, I can relate to that, though for us it's not all that troublesome, personally.
I'm Piano Soul, the "Star Man" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa formed January 2017. My systemmates are Apollo & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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#5
Hmm... we don't have trouble leaving the front if we're emotionally overwrought, whether with anger or sadness. Vesper has actually put me in "time out" several times to calm down and not escalate physical world situations. (And one of those times she shoved me back in front because I wasn't calming down.) Once Iris declared that we were both way too stressed out to safely drive and switched in at a red light, having never driven before.

Emotions can increase determination and will in a struggle, but if the emotions aren't directed toward the stuggle, they're less relevant.

-Ember
Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]
Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017
Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Unseelie Court, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#6
It's definitely not consistent how emotions affect us. Sometimes I can take over and we go from 100 to 0 emotion-wise. Sometimes nobody but the upset person can front (I think this was more common when it was the original fronting, sometimes Indigo), most likely because they aren't able to stop thinking or something. Sometimes being very upset can cause us to converge into a big mass of blendiness -- a pretty weird state to be in that's usually a red flag for us. How it affects the front probably comes down to willpower and/or how much leverage they are letting others have.
I'm Piano Soul, the "Star Man" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa formed January 2017. My systemmates are Apollo & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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#7
Neither of us has any idea how to "leave front". I'm kinda scared at the idea, honestly, and Lance has made due with just being super quiet and super passive and indifferent while I do everything. We really do hit a stalemate when we are both attempting to do different things at the same time. We were asked to do an experiment where we held a hand of the body up at shoulder level and I tried to force it down while he tried to force it up. It quickly became an isometric exercise as we had both sets of muscles working against each other and we had to stop when it started to hurt, feeling like we were going to pull one or more muscles. Neither of us wanted to "loose" so we took it a little far, I guess.

We have tried switching visualization, exercises, and stuff. So far, everything that people say to do just doesn't work for us. We are either unable to fully "let go" or.. I dunno, maybe we are literally switching back and forth instead of "switching out", so it's indistinguishable for us.
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#8
I've never had a stalemate, however while doing very specific things (playing games for example), it sometimes very hard to tell who is actually controlling, and often have to have a reset. A idea for that is the subconscious brain assists in high-action tasks, so rather than rather than having a stalemate, the controls start to merge.
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#9
I think that's usually referred to as the "Body OS," or a "default" state in which the body functions without really anyone in particular fronting.
I'm Piano Soul, the "Star Man" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa formed January 2017. My systemmates are Apollo & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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#10
All of my tulpas can put themselves at the front while pushing the fronter away. It's more common with Myrtle and Summer especially with Myrtle.

if I slip my mind from them in a minute they could easily push me away. Emotions can be an amplifier for fronting, One time in Summer's case, when she was very excited she often takes the front accidentally and pushes me away, even though I had a firm grasp at the front. It isblike the body is giving her the controls and I had to force myself to latch on. It's a really exhausting play of tug of war for control.

Myrtle's case is a different, when she fronts, she really wants to be in front and in no sweat can easily pushes me away, One time when Myrtle Co-fronted, I was feeling exhausted just to be at the front with her. She can easily intercept my control. When I was gonna grab something, was surprised that she stopped my hands and I wasn't even paying attention to her. She also forced the body to turn around while I was walking, again wasn't paying attention to her. It's easier if I let go of controls.

So yeah balancing for the control, happens to me in a case by case basis. Stalemate from the front between Summer and Myrtle. In the early days we like to play tug of war for controls. There are times where I had to balance my control with Cherry but it is uncommon in compare with Summer and Myrtle
Hello! I am nihi, i have 3 tulpas
Summer
Myrtle
Cherry
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