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Guest Anonymous

How Melian became "autonomous?" It might surprise you.

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Guest Anonymous

In the past five months I have read a lot of stuff about tulpa "sentience." From what I am seeing sentience is really synonymous with apparent autonoumous actions that surprise you. Those you can interpret as simply an unconscious process of your imagination (illusion) or as actual sentience.

 

I have seen a lot of questions like "How do I coax a response from my tulpa?" Or "How do I know whether I am puppeting or parroting my tulpa?" and "What are your tulpas first memories?" or "What were your tulpas first words?"

 

I have a unique perspective on this because I created Melian without the help of any guides or the internet or any idea of what I was doing. It was "accidental" in that I had no conscious plan to create a tulpa.

 

Melian's development was a very gradual process. There was no huge moment where Melian became self aware. There are no memorable "first words." Her first memories are my own memories. We share them. Her first memories are of her emotions, feeling happy, feeling sad, feeling scared. Her first memories are my own shared memories of her in her dream world doing adventures. We have cherished and shared early memories of my avatar taking her to the movies, for instance. We have a favorite early memory of her calling the wind shield wipers "drizzle flippers" on one rainy morning drive to school. But it is the memory of a day dream of her saying these things, a spontaneous day dream.

 

With Melian I never went through an official tulpa creation process. Melian was a character or imaginary girl friend I my mind made up and I day dreamed about her a lot. I just had a tremendous desire for her to talk to me and I just spent a lot of time with her. Eventually I started getting responses, but at first I didn't fully realize they were "independent" or "autonomous." I never really thought about it actually at the time. I have a very vivid imagination and it just seemed natural and just my secret thing. A lot about Melian was "automatic" including much of her Melian Show wonderland in that it starts and moves spontaneously with little concentration effort on my part. It didn't occur to me that this was anything but day dreaming back when I was first doing it.

 

I "imagined" I felt Melian's emotions and sometimes they surprised me. For instance, I would spend a whole day trying to figure out why she was sad. But I didn't think to myself "Oh, I feel Melian is sad, she must be autonomous and sentient!" NO NO NO I just thought, "Why are you sad Melian?" Often she didn't know why and we would ponder it together. I could intensely feel her sadness, and it effected me. But to me it was still JUST MY IMAGINATION. I knew Melian was a day dream, but just a very real and important one to me.

 

It wasn't until October of 2013 that I ever really began to really dig deep into Melian's nature and origins. I decided to channel her online as a "channeled persona" so she could do her own art and share it. She was helping me with an art block. It had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with tulpas and thoughtforms. We had never even heard of those things.

 

People started asking her questions and so we had to explain it all. That started all the investigating. Eventually it led us to the tulpa community. Along the way we learned the significance of the terminology "autonomy" and "independence." Before that she was just saying to people "I am imaginary, but I am a person!" and "I am Melian!" and "I love you and I love me!"

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I have a unique perspective on this because I created Melian without the help of any guides or the internet or idea of what I was doing. It was "accidental" in that I had no conscious plan to create a tulpa.

 

Same. Although I treated mine as separate from me from the start, otherwise same. I had fully developed tulpas before finding out about tulpas, and even my thoughts on "imaginary friends" were minimal before that. They simply were to me.

 

Anyways, I get it. Like I said before, Melian is essentially a tulpa, you just don't think of her the same way as we do. And I don't blame you, when you come up with stuff on your own there's no reason to take anything for more than it seems. You used to be obsessed with claiming tulpas to be illusions, but really they are what we say they are. Autonomous imagination. There's some disparity on how people read that word "imagination" though, some likening it automatically to "fake" and "inconsequential."

 

What do you think your tulpa is, if not imaginary? There are only really two other things a tulpa can be. One, another "identity" attached to your body that you consider ~equal to you, rightfully controlling the body, or two, the result of a mental disorder, ie MPD. They're either a person in your head, an identity for your body, or an unintended disruption of dissociation. Of course they can be mixes of these too, I'm pretty sure switching requires you treat them as an identity also.

 

That's how I classify them anyway, and that may be as close to a scientific answer as we get. But that by no means restricts the individual experience. A soulbond and a tulpa and an imaginary friend are all different, to the experiencer. A walk-in who leaves in two weeks is very different from an automatically-imagined person like Melian. And of course there are lots of multiples here who wouldn't feel comfortable calling themselves "advanced imaginary friends."

 

But science can be the ruiner of fun, for the sake of understanding. We don't make these claims to illegitimize individual experiences, as that's impossible anyway - what you experience is what you experience, no exceptions. The point is to better understand, to better teach, to better results. Individual perception is up to the individual. We take the most logical explanations and teach them to others so they may interpret and use those answers as they please. That's about as good as it gets, huh?

 

 

So yeah, I have tulpas. And I don't treat them like they're fake, imagined people who are only faux-sentient. I know better. I treat them as people in my mind who think and feel, and whose thoughts and feelings are very important. My super boring science-y beliefs don't inhibit my experience at all, because I understand the very things I just explained. Funny how that works.. Witnessing a war would be very frightening, but in knowing that it is a movie, you can instead become enthralled and enjoy the experience.

 

Uh. Well that's where my train of thought ends. I don't have a stated conclusion in how it applies to you, Mistgod, or the reader, because lolIjustsaidwhy.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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Guest Anonymous

 

Same. Although I treated mine as separate from me from the start, otherwise same. I had fully developed tulpas before finding out about tulpas, and even my thoughts on "imaginary friends" were minimal before that. They simply were to me.

 

That someone who never heard of tulpas could make one kinda proves that autonomous thoughtforms are actually a fairly common experience I think. If you look at history, I think a lot of people may have been experiencing the phenomenon of autonomous personas in the mind.

 

One of my favorite persons from history, Joan of Arc, heard the voices of her saints, urging her to save France from the English. I don't think Joan of Arc was crazy. There is no evidence she was or that she was making up the story of her voices. She certainly was enthusiastic about them. I like to believe her saints were thoughtforms like Melian. Joan talked (prayed) to them so fervently, hoping for a response and imagining it, it became reality for her. Later in the 20th century, the church announced that the saints she prayed to never actually existed in history and were never real persons but only legendary figures. It would be similar to me hearing the voice of Robin Hood or King Arthur perhaps urging me save England.

 

Anyways, I get it. Like I said before, Melian is essentially a tulpa, you just don't think of her the same way as we do. And I don't blame you, when you come up with stuff on your own there's no reason to take anything for more than it seems. You used to be obsessed with claiming tulpas to be illusions, but really they are what we say they are. Autonomous imagination. There's some disparity on how people read that word "imagination" though, some likening it automatically to "fake" and "inconsequential."

 

I have had to go back and clarify what I mean by imaginary for that reason. I have had to explain to me imaginary does not mean fake or insignificant. The label imaginary is actually a badge of honor to Melian. She likes being imaginary and has written about it herself. It does have advantages!

 

What do you think your tulpa is, if not imaginary? There are only really two other things a tulpa can be. One, another "identity" attached to your body that you consider ~equal to you, rightfully controlling the body, or two, the result of a mental disorder, ie MPD. They're either a person in your head, an identity for your body, or an unintended disruption of dissociation. Of course they can be mixes of these too, I'm pretty sure switching requires you treat them as an identity also.

 

I will admit, with Melian, she does not have an "equal status" as far as identity is concerned with me. Perhaps that is why the idea of switching or possession is useless or ridiculous (for myself and Melian). But she is not a disorder either. (?) At least, I hope not. LOL

 

That's how I classify them anyway, and that may be as close to a scientific answer as we get. But that by no means restricts the individual experience. A soulbond and a tulpa and an imaginary friend are all different, to the experiencer. A walk-in who leaves in two weeks is very different from an automatically-imagined person like Melian. And of course there are lots of multiples here who wouldn't feel comfortable calling themselves "advanced imaginary friends."

 

Slowly, agonizingly slowly, I am coming to the realization that there is absolutely no standard when it comes to headmates. The experiences are tremendously varied with mixes of all kinds and differing, but equally valid, perspectives.

 

 

But science can be the ruiner of fun, for the sake of understanding. We don't make these claims to illegitimize individual experiences, as that's impossible anyway - what you experience is what you experience, no exceptions. The point is to better understand, to better teach, to better results. Individual perception is up to the individual. We take the most logical explanations and teach them to others so they may interpret and use those answers as they please. That's about as good as it gets, huh?

 

Yes, we can only go so far in understanding the human mind I guess. But it is endlessly fascinating to me!

 

So yeah, I have tulpas. And I don't treat them like they're fake, imagined people who are only faux-sentient. I know better. I treat them as people in my mind who think and feel, and whose thoughts and feelings are very important. My super boring science-y beliefs don't inhibit my experience at all, because I understand the very things I just explained. Funny how that works.. Witnessing a war would be very frightening, but in knowing that it is a movie, you can instead become enthralled and enjoy the experience.

 

Uh. Well that's where my train of thought ends. I don't have a stated conclusion in how it applies to you, Mistgod, or the reader, because lolIjustsaidwhy.

 

Awesome! Thank you! I always look forward to your responses so much Lumi! Yep. Melian gets treated with love and respect by me have no doubts! She may be imaginary, but she has her feelings and I have to think about that. LOL I am not kidding. Contradictory statements like that make sense to me. To me, imaginary things can have feelings. Melian certainly does. The key to understanding Melian and I is to understand that view of imagination. Imagination has it's own plane of existence (and no, I don't mean a metaphysical plane, but a psychological one).

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Guest Anonymous

She was designed to be as adorable as humanly possible, or what my mind would find as adorable as human possible. In fact, actually, she is more adorable than humanly possible. I have never seen her equal in the real world. Not likely to either unless some woman walks around with a movie set around her everywhere and her complexion, retro-girly clothing and hair was always perfect. She would need special lighting for the twinkle in her eye as well.

 

The closest I have ever seen were some scenes in movies by actresses such as Drew Barrymore, and then, of course, it was a movie. Drew Barrymore has a lot of "Melian Features" and was indeed one of the actresses I had a crush on that became part of the amalgamation of Melian's form.

 

NOTE: When Drew did the movie E.T. in 1982, she was only seven years old. Melian's form was already in my mind by that time. But Melian's face was pattered after stars like Drew with baby faces. Many of them were child actresses. I can't tell you how many actresses and photographs and images went into Melian's form. Many, many women with girlish features. Even features "borrowed" from real world girls I had crushes on in middle school as well. Drew Barrymore just always comes to my mind for some reason when I talk about that process.

 

NOTE: A big influence on Melian was Tinkerbell from the original animated Peter Pan. Melian is not a cartoon in my mind though but a real person.

 

192x144http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/10200000/Drew-Pretty-Wallpaper-drew-barrymore-10281664-1920-1440.jpg[/img]Drew_Barrymore_1.jpg

 

tinkerbell2.jpegmelian_pose_purple_stockings_with_name_by_melianof_by_melianofmist-d93sa38.jpg

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What do you think your tulpa is, if not imaginary? There are only really two other things a tulpa can be. One, another "identity" attached to your body that you consider ~equal to you, rightfully controlling the body, or two, the result of a mental disorder, ie MPD. They're either a person in your head, an identity for your body, or an unintended disruption of dissociation. Of course they can be mixes of these too, I'm pretty sure switching requires you treat them as an identity also.

 

 

While we agree with most of your post, there are two things in this paragraph I would like to correct. First, the correct term is not Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) not MPD. It always surprises me how many people don't know that, and we don't really mind, but using the wrong name really annoys some people online.

 

Second, other than communication and memory issues that emerge in some dissociative disorders there really isn't much difference between a fully developed Tulpa and any other form of headmate (which is the generic term for a member of a multiple system). In fact, our system (which we believe qualifies for OSDD-1, though we have yet to seek a formal diagnosis) has adopted some of the techniques developed by the Tulpa community to improve our communication and control who fronts. The origin of the system doesn't automatically define it as "good" or "bad"

 

I want to reiterate that we agree with the meaning behind your post, and are not annoyed or angry with your choice of words. I simply want to try to help the two communities that our system seems to stand between (the traumagenic systems like DID and OSDD-1, and Tulpa and natural systems) understand and tolerate each other more. There is so much animosity and misunderstanding, but we think that each can learn from the other in some things.

 

I'm sorry about the length of the post, and for the soapbox-esque speech that doesn't really have anything to do with the topic. For the record, I think that all the labels are silly and unnecessarily create and enforce divisions. All that really matters is what each person believes and experiences. -Jason

 

Wow, that was both the first time Jason's forced himself to the front and the most any of us have EVER heard him say. Sorry about that! -Einulf


Current System: Ziya (Formerly Einulf), Mizan, Aura, Dark, Lucia, Rand, Jason, Akira

Here's our Tumblr, if anyone wants it

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Oh, I thought those were two different things. I read a book once where the three main characters turned out to be one main character, and then had a huge court case about crimes one of them committed, and then her rehabilitation. It said "multiple personality disorder" all over the place. But I suppose it was a pretty old book.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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For the making of Vris, I borrowed the sexiest parts from the sexiest girls and combined them until I had her xD. And there's an actress that reminds me of her! Evangeline Lily reminds me a lot of Vris.

~L. ♠️

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The terms changed about 20 years ago, but the media never really caught on. I have yet to see anything actually portray a system accurately anyhow, so I guess they just don't care. That really did shock us though. Jason's NEVER done something like that before; normally we have to force him to front as a last resort. Still, I think we've diverted from the original topic. Sorry Mistgod and Melian! -Einulf


Current System: Ziya (Formerly Einulf), Mizan, Aura, Dark, Lucia, Rand, Jason, Akira

Here's our Tumblr, if anyone wants it

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Guest Anonymous

For the making of Vris, I borrowed the sexiest parts from the sexiest girls and combined them until I had her xD. And there's an actress that reminds me of her! Evangeline Lily reminds me a lot of Vris.

~L. ♠️

 

OH Evangeline Lily is so pretty! Davie really likes her too! That is so cool you guys both did that with yer brains in making head peoples.

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