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Trippy questions about switching (sorry if I am supposed to know already)


Guest Anonymous

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Guest Anonymous

When switched with a tulpa, can a tulpa possess the hosts body while the host is unaware or unable to perceive what the tulpa is doing?

 

Is the host still aware of the real world and able to perceive it while switched into the wonderland?

 

Can a switch become permanent deliberately or on accident?

 

Who is actively imagining the wonderland during a switch, the host or the tulpa or both?

 

Is there memory loss or blackouts for the host associated with switching, similar to fronting in DID?

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All of these answers will be based on my own experiences. Keep that in mind and compare them to any other answers you get.

 

1. The definition of switching would be the tulpa controlling the body while the host is dissociated/in wonderland, so yes, the tulpa can control the body. If what you're asking is "Are hosts unaware of the body during a switch?" then also yes. While in wonderland I don't know what's going on unless I'm told by whoever is switched in and in control of the body.

 

2. See above answer.

 

3. On accident, no, I don't believe so. The body would eventually snap you out of dissociation as the level of dissociation required to remain dissociated in the face of extreme external stress is relatively unobtainable, at least to me. I'm sure theoretically it's possible, but I highly doubt anyone will ever reach that point here. As to deliberately? I'm not sure. I'd say it's more likely than accidental by a wide margin. It would require effort on both parts, however. The tulpa would need to actively be staying in the body, and the host would need to actively attempt to stay dissociated. And when the body sleeps? That's probably when the permanent switch would be most likely to fall apart, in my opinion. In our experience, sleeping in the body as a tulpa usually kicks you back to the wonderland, but that could always just be a self-imposed thing I'm unaware of doing.

 

4. I would assume the host is, since it's his/her brain.

 

5. Yeah, sometimes, but not always. More often at the beginning of dissociation there are blackouts/memory losses, but as you get more and more used to it, it happens less often.

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Guest Anonymous

Thank you Joshua. It is clear to me that what you are doing and what I am doing with Melian are on two entirely different levels. LOL It gives me a lot to think about. I am curious what others are going to say.

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[Tri]

 

When switched with a tulpa, can a tulpa possess the hosts body while the host is unaware or unable to perceive what the tulpa is doing?

 

Is the host still aware of the real world and able to perceive it while switched into the wonderland?

 

Yes. That is actually the definition of switching. It is hard to achieve for two reasons. One, the host has to get fully inside or black out. Two, the tulpa has to be able to control the body in that state (not lose too much processing power or control when the host blinks out). Since switching means a complete disconnect from the bodily senses, the host would be unaware of what is going on outside unless they are told, sync memory (in the case of memory sharing), or decide to reconnect to the bodily's senses.

 

Can a switch become permanent deliberately or on accident?

 

Yes to both, though one must be careful about one's definition of permanent - how many years is permanent? There are a few examples within this community. In our own system, a similar (or possibly identical) thing happened on accident. Hail, our host, was not the original here. She was either a split or a tulpa from an early age (not known which, which is why we say "similar or possibly identical"). She and the original ended up doing a very gradual switch over a couple years which was essentially permanent (S, the original, didn't attach to the senses or control the body again for over 15 years). This was accidental. Another example in this community would be kerin and kevin. Kerin ended up switching with kevin for about a decade on accident, as kerin describes at RE: My host killed himself... #11 and kevin describes at RE: kerin - Experiments in Progress #19. If it can happen accidentally, it can surely happen intentionally. We think we have read about a few systems in the wider plural community where a system member who would meet the definition of tulpa deliberately permanently switched with their host (voluntarily by both parties).It certainly can be done by force. If a tulpa is strong enough to do dormancy possession (full body possession where the host goes dormant and can no longer think, despite being aware) indefinitely without accidentally re-activating the host when various things happen (or can suppress the host when they reactivate), it is just a matter of keeping the host dormant for long enough for them to fade away. Shouldn't take more than a year or two, probably would take less.

 

Who is actively imagining the wonderland during a switch, the host or the tulpa or both?

 

This is a very complicated question. It would seem to be symmetric, in that if when the host is controlling the body, the host is imagining it, then the tulpa would be imagining it when they are controlling the body. An important question - does the wonderland and the people in it exist in an active state when the person in control is not interfacing it? If that is the case, then whoever is controlling the body is the person imaging it. If it can be imagined by someone inside, then whoever is inside is the one imagining it.

 

Is there memory loss or blackouts for the host associated with switching, similar to fronting in DID?

 

Yes, there can be. Depends on the memory sharing. The reason some systems have problems is that switching sometimes happens unexpectedly combined with no memory sharing and no ability for people to be conscious at the same time and pass on information by telling each other. Tulpamancy systems generally can stay conscious at the same time and pass information on and often have a degree of memory sharing. But this is not always the case.

Tri = {V, O, G}, Ice and Frostbite and Breach (all formerly Hail), and others

System Name: Fall Family

Former Username: hail_fall

Contributor and administrator on a supplementary tulpamancy resource and associated forum, Tulpa.io and Tulpa.io/discuss/.

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Guest Anonymous

It is all a whole lot simpler if you discard the idea that tulpas are true sentience. That is where the most complicated weirdness comes from. You have got to be kidding me. Guys sometimes I just shake my head at this stuff. I am really sorry. I am trying ot get it but I have to leave off with full switching. I will live and let live and give others the benefit of the doubt as best I can. But, I cannot fathom how switching really happens. That is just so friggin out there. I understand how the things I do with Melian happens, it seems pretty straight forward. But switching, to me honestly, seems like trippy hippy way to much acid trippy. The last few days I have been geeking out on it all, but I am ready to move past it and just ignore switching from now on.


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Guest Anonymous

I am pretty new to all this and have never switched, but my significant other explained it to me pretty well. He isn't involved in any of this, but I've explained what I do to him and asked him if he thought the concept of switching could be explained scientifically. I thought there was no explanation other than metaphysical phenomenon, but he surprised me.

 

He compared it to sleepwalking. Your body is doing something you are not aware of, but in your mind (what you recall when you wake up) is something completely different. In your mind you could be doing anything.

 

It made sense to me, as I've definitely sleepwalked before and had no recollection of that, but of the dream I'd had.

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Guest Anonymous

Someone, somewhere is confused about something. It may be me, but I am not so sure about that.


Can you drive to work and do your job while sleep walking? That is the level we are talking about. Switching is not being described anything like sleep walking.

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Guest Anonymous

Sleep walking explains that your mind can be unaware of your physical body and experience something different. The assumption with switching is that the tulpa taking over is as sentient as you, or can at least access the same reasoning/knowledge you have to complete the tasks.

 

Without sentience or access to the host's knowledge/brain I don't see how switching to that extent would work. Just my two cents though, as I have no experience with this.

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Guest Anonymous

Either tulpas are really sentient and full switching of this type is possible or tulpas are not real sentience and it is not possible. They would have to be sentient for it to really work, as far as I can see. I will leave it alone at this point because it is totally beyond my capacity to grasp. I just don't want to go there anymore. LOL

 

Today is the last time I discuss it EVER as I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or upset anyone. I am just flat confused by it. I tell you what though, tulpamancy is definitely not what I originally thought it was. It just isn't.


There is another possible explanation for my confusion and failure to understand or accept switching. It could very well be that what I am doing with Melian is fundamentally different than what others are doing. If that is true, it would explain why the idea of switching feels wrong to me but right to others. I have to consider that possibility. Melian may not be independently sentient, but that doesn't mean that other tulpas aren't either. I have to just accept what people are telling me without applying it to myself necessarily. What is going on in another's person's mind is impossible for me to assess.

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Either tulpas are really sentient and full switching of this type is possible or tulpas are not real sentience and it is not possible. They would have to be sentient for it to really work, as far as I can see. I will leave it alone at this point because it is totally beyond my capacity to grasp. I just don't want to go there anymore. LOL

 

Even if you assume tulpas don't have true sentience, you could still assume switching is possible. If you assume tulpas don't have true sentience, I'm guessing that would require you to reach a state of unconscious puppeting to explain the tulpas existence and seemingly sentient state. If this is true, why is doing an action while believing you've switched such a far swing for you to take? It would seem likely to me that if tulpas aren't truly sentient, switching could be explained as doing an action under the impression that you are the tulpa, then convincing yourself that you've switched and falsifying memories of the wonderland.

 

Note that I don't believe this is the case.

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    • By testing
      Reformatted version: here
       
      This is the shortened version of the guide that only shows how to do possession and switching, the other guide has information on how to merge, and additional information such as more details on the process and a questions section. If you want to read that guide it is here. This shortened guide also has a pastebin if that is more convenient for you here <3
      This guide is simply a shortened version of the guide that is shortened to 5 of the 13 sections taken directly.
      A personal note, i have been switching for a while now and have used many different techniques, the one below is the one that i have found both effective and easy to explain compared to what the other things are. This is Version 1.0, and will be edited if need be. Im posting it because i have had a few people get good results with it.
      Disclaimer
      This guide requires a rather well developed tulpa, as it does put some strain on the host and tulpa. They should be sentient vocal and have had sufficient time to be comfortable in their own bodies before they use anyones besides theirs. Additionally do not attempt movements that put you or your tulpa at risk such as walking fast around your house at least until you are confident and trained that you can control the whole body. It is advised to train on your bed as well so if you fall you wont be injured as much
      There is no set time that this guide and process will take, i have sped it up but it can be your first try (such as me) or it could take weeks who knows
       
      Introduction:
      I will first assume that you are aware of what switching is but in case you dont, it is when the tulpa can use the hosts body as if it were her own and the host is moved into a temporary mindform. This guide is made to allow for the host and tulpaes to switch much easier and smoother and also learn an easy method of possession following the same tecniques. If you are not at all willing to give your body to your tulpa temporarily, or permanantly as Koomer has done, then sadly this guide will not work for you. We do recommend reading Oguigis possession and the other switching guide as well, to increase your understanding of the processes involved with said methods. That being said the rest of the guide will be the real method
       
      The Shortened Tulpa Guide to Easy Switching
       
       
      Definitions:
      Mindvoice: What you and your tulpa speak in to yourselves and each other
      Possession: When a tulpa can control the hosts body
      Switching: Switching places with the tulpa so the tulpa is in the place of the host and the host is in a tulpa state
      Merging: In this version, it is when both tulpa and host as dominant with the mindvoices and can both control the body. Others refer to merging as merging wntire forms, usually permanently, as believed. This is not the merging described in the long version of the guide
       
      Begin Switching
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      Step 1 Switch whos thoughts are dominant
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      Please note the following
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      >Switching mindvoices does not mean you use her voice and the tulpa uses your real voice, it is switching places so that the tulpas is dominant, and is mentioned twice because it is important in this guide
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      Step 5 Undoing possession, switching, and merging, the most important step
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    • Guest
      By Guest
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    • By Jamie
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    • By Cat_ShadowGriffin
      Ranger and I were talking to people on Discord and anon brought up the concept of an internal narrator. I'm struggling to understand what he's talking about, mostly because we never considered anything like that as being part of how we work to begin with. I then realized if both of us have very different ideas for what "you" is made up of, then that explains some of the confusion about switching.
       
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      -The guy standing in wonderland speaking in mindvoice (aka my Gray form)
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      1) I can stand in wonderland and be reacting to what's happening with the body at the same time, so the first two parts are separate. Even though I am more experienced at managing this separation than Ranger and the Grays, they have also experienced this separation.
       
      2) In a temporary integration attempt with Ranger, he tried to absorb all of me. I was mostly absorbed into him to the point where Ranger realized he was an integration for a brief moment in a dream he had while taking a nap. However, Ranger felt there was still more of me to absorb and he couldn't absorb it, despite his best efforts. Given that Ranger absorbed the other two parts, we concluded that this third part is separate from the other two.
       
      3) When merged with Ranger, we have found that I can break merges if I feel the pressing desire to do so. Again, the first two parts are absorbed, so we assumed that this piece is separate from the former two. The only exception was our first merge, Aziraphale, where he neared the point of blacking out when he thought of us as separate entities, so we concluded that this piece of me was at least partly absorbed into that merge.
       
      Part of the annoyance is identifying what the third part is. Referring back to reason 3, it's the part of me that's directly connected with the body and does in fact relate to consciousness. I believe this is a critical piece of "you" that needs to be switched out during a switch, but others have disagreed.
       
      Rejecting the idea it is a part of me would be problematic. We would have to accept that our possession is switching and it will not change the fact Ranger will still experience all of the same problems of losing body control to me or blending with me as part of being "switched out". In other words, we would be agreeing to a model that assumes the host and tulpa are unequal and the host has power over all of the tulpas indefinitely. I feel like calling this part the body OS will have the same results. It still falls on the model that the host is superior since the "body OS" just prioritizes the host, and the tactic to accomodate that is to barely make the host active at all and hope that the tulpa can express themself the majority of the time to minimize issues with blending and confusion.
       
      The model we believe in is the one where a tulpa and host can trade positions, so a tulpa can gain the unequal leverage a host normally has and give it back, thus making a tulpa fundamentally equal to a host. Our model assumes only states of consciousness are designed on unequal footing, the "host" and "tulpa" positions, but not the tulpa and host themselves.
       
      However, I made a lot of assumptions regarding what fundamentally counts as you and what doesn't. It's possible that the piece of me in wonderland for example is less of me than I originally thought. In fact, is it a piece that I should even be considered as being me?
       
      Here are some other questions I thought of:
       
      + Is mindvoice really you, or how Ranger put it, are you your words?
      + Is your presence you, or is it a label, like a name?
      + Are you your form? What is symbolism and why is it used as a guide during switching?
      + Are you your emotions? Are emotions like a tool, just like language? Does the body force you to feel things or are emotions always generated by the identity?
      + Are memories you? Is the "I" label the only reason why the identity is yours, or is there more to it than that?
      + Is your thought process you?
      + When you dwell on your thoughts, is that you reacting to a collection of thoughts and memories sitting in short term memory? Is that a process shared by everyone in the mind or just you?
      + What is an internal narrator? Is it mindvoice or is it a thought process? Why is it you? Is it parallel processing if there are multiple of these?
       
      This is far from a complete list, so if you believe there are missing or redundant parts feel free to call them out.
    • By Apollo Fire
      [align=justify]When waking up or going to sleep, we very often enter a state where our thoughts are random, disorganized, sometimes nonsensical, and often difficult to remember. I don't know if this is common but I'm assuming it is.
       
      Something we've noticed lately is that when we are trying to switch, sometimes our mind will enter that state. It's like our brain is trying to go to sleep, just without any tiredness. Does anyone else experience this? We've been playing around with it as a potential means for host dissociation. Might be useful, might not.[/align]
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