JGC's Progress Report

[Guest]

[Hidden]Well I think you were a little harsh on him Gavin, I understand cautious, but it was a little much to say 'get out' in my opinion. Not the words, but the percieved tone. Don't take it personally, I'm just an observer with an opinion.[/hidden]

 

This is somewhat of a lonely road we tread, Gavin and Jamie. Some here struggle to understand other thoughtforms and the value they have for a system. It's still very noval and new to think that a non-person can be a useful thoughtform.

 

We're kind of stealing and streching terms here, some would even disagree that thoughtforms should be what their called. I have accepted the term this way, and so have some others, still it may be that yet others disagree. So this is a personal thing, as in, not really related to purist tulpamancy. I have called it paratulpamancy. (Don't I love digging up fringe terms?) It's tolerated so far.

 

I have understood that their treatment should be the same kindness and respect you give your brothers, they aren't lesser, they're equals, just not their own selves. I consider the rules you set in place as cautiously appropriate. Others may disagree. Others may also warn you that the muses may become tulpas, but I irrevocably believe they can't without your will, no matter how much you interact. This point is contended by others here which makes us the examples that future systems will use to understand their forms. So we must be cautious and careful if we are to be useful to others later.

 

The mindset is important. K must know that their position isn't a lesser one, that they're charished just as much. Though K might never speak here, we welcome them regardless, even if they don't attain this status.

 

To Cassidy, a muse can be a powerful ally, in essence closer to your host by definition, even if you have more freedom. Treat them no different than your brothers if you interact with them at all.

 

All, it's important to us that the one who interacts with the muse or moon does so on their own time. If time is shared, the time the muse has is shared with whoever interacts with them, it's not system time cut amongst all thoughtforms. Otherwise time is agreed in advance of inviting the thoughtform. Time is our currency, don't rob your fellow headmates.

 

Lastly, thoughtforms, moons, muses, NPC's may cause unexpected emotional bleed and sometimes they say things that make them appear tulpa-like. Remember that this is your feelings and thoughts by definition. They share your sentience. Keep your definition foremost in your mind, if they break the rules, do what is to be done if anyone breaks the rules.

 

Joy and Ren both were a little confused early on, now they understand the restrictions aren't a bother and they really like the closer connection. In our case, they aren't even governed by all the same system rules. They understand that if a tulpa was made from them, it might not even be them.

 

It's very important that they understand that they're not lesser thoughtforns, they should never be jelous, like a cat wouldn't be jelous of a horse. They're just different species so to speak both useful and with a purpose of their own.

 

Good luck, we're watching. :)

[solarchariot]

I don't know how to enter this. The clarity of expectation is excellent. Had muse spoke to Jaime, would the expectations have been different than K's? Would more leniency have occurred? The system rules, yours, Bears, is probably something all systems, even non plurals should consider implementing. I am now curious if intrusive thoughts can be curtailed by apply such rules, even if it's merely a pact with the unconscious mind.

 

As you know, I experience my share of characters. I like most of my characters!, but I clearly can't have everyone present, so there is obviously some sort of mechanism or system rule that allows me to compartmentalize and limit activity. My experience of the dialogue was 'harsh.' That is a bias, not an assessment, or push for you doing different. Just my reaction. Perhaps my bias stems from the fact I have not experienced a 'character' that was so determinedly intrusive that they interfered with my ability to navigate the different worlds or compartmentalize... I do get intrusive thoughts, but I have not confronted them as originating from other... That voice feels like my voice. So, let' say I sit down and I want to do the next Trek book, I make an allowance for that, make the space or airtime available, and I channel that... The star wars character don't intrude on that... Mostly. I have some crossover stuff, but that doesn't feel like the same...

 

Okay, I think I have arrived at something in my head... I think you and Bear are the only ones I know that experience ongoing, spontaneous generation of potential tulpas. You have created a system that help minimize maintain your system. Damn it, I can't get the question out... I personally don't see the need to limit through definition as specifying this as tulpa or not tulpa, that I can interact with all personality sets equally, without concern that the system itself will destabilize. I suspect, as others have postulated, like Jung, Freud, Campbell, that there are personality fragments, and archetypes... If something or someone presents itself, I suspect it has system value and needed expression... So much happens unconsciously, that if rises to conscious, it required the designated personality to respond to it in some fashion... For me, that has become putting things and people into context, like a story, and writing it. That's actually my self therapy... The trek stories, my first real stories, resolved themselves emotionally, and so writing the last book was hard, because I didn't need to go back there... because I actually got better, but there are tulpas in there before I knew what tulpas were, and after I knew, and Loxy became prominent, and we wrote our first story, the two Trek 'tulpas' did cameos, which was humorous, and they are fairly assertive, but they didn't linger.

 

So, sorry, didn't pose a question, much less a good question, but I am interested in this with you and Bear...

[Guest]

Besides us, SC, and perhaps JGC now, Cat/Ranger and their Grays are the only other such system that we know of who actively maintain other thoughtforms (other than Someone who may not want to be lumped in). I'm glad you said something SC. It's a new and controversial ground in a way for this community, and I'm happy we're allowed to speak of them with this level of freedom. Of course civility and openness to others' opinions are to be maintained or it won't be helpful.

 

We're still learning more every day.

[solarchariot]

I am not sure why it needs to be controversial... I do see a need to make a distinction in general that 'this is tulpamancy' and this may be the other thing... clarity of definition and protocol is necessary, but within the context of this thing here precisely, I recognize you and your tulps, JGC and is tulpas, and this other 'interactive force' that you seem to experience that wants to be tulpas or beget tulpas...

 

so if I relegated this caveat to simply dream characters, whether lucid or not, I am of the opinion they are all full fledge personalities, not 'characters.' Um author of ' lucid dreaming: gateways to inner self" asserts the same. How I would distinguish between these folks, who I have clearly interacted with, in both lucid and non-lucid dreams, is that Loxy is more persistent and transcends, in growing degrees, the subliminal threshold of subconscious and dream states... I try to treat all personalities as 'people.' in the dream, the moon and the grass can be people, personalities... though I don't always remember to treat them as such. If I asked the moon a question, I would get a response. I actually practice that during the day, real life... like, I thank my truck... I thank almost everything in my life. It fortifies a spirit of gratitude, and it helps me to remember to talk to things in my dreams, to increase the chance for lucidity... So, I guess I am still hung up on why the need to regulate... then again, Loxy is so not threatened by others, that maybe it's just my experience with my core personalities that I haven't had the same pressure to limit?... I have mentioned that since tulpamancy I have revisited 'the invisible counselor" technique, and I have had some over the top interactions with my 'committee,' but even they have not been intrusively showing up at odd moments demanding air time... But maybe that's my personality flaw, that it's structure is less permeable? I am not sure yet how to box this so that it correlates to yours and JGC's experience... which, full circle, maybe that's why it is necessary for so many sticklers to stay on task or not stray... my argument would be all of this builds tulpas, just not the direct, approved path for consistent results...

[Jamie]

Thanks for your advice. I don't think K will make direct appearances in this thread or elsewhere here, but you might get glimpses of him through conversations. That's a good analogy about different species.

-J

[Guest]

...my argument would be all of this builds tulpas, just not the direct, approved path for consistent results...

 

Therein lies the controversy.

 

But we have threads where we can discuss this, not on Jamie's thread.

[Jamie]

Muahahah! Success! Well, moderate success, but it was cool!

 

I sincerely tried the Ganzfield effect, using a DIY paper+cottonball trim mask, listening to nice white noise through bluetooth earbuds, and then wearing gun muffs over that. Beforehand I burned this vanilla candle that neutralized any ambient smell (people forget about that sense, smells can keep you grounded when you don't want to be.) In the dark, late at night.

 

Before starting, I shut up internal radio via mental symbolism (thanks again, Bre!) and spent a full half-hour listening to Cassidy's music, talking with him, and staring intently at all the reference pictures I have of him.

I've been wondering if he could impose himself via shifting the photos, so I asked him to try. When I clicked to the next photo, I had the split-second feeling that the eyes had looked directly at me. I said internally, "I understand this is a mental effect, and I welcome it," then clicked through all the photos. Little, split-second views of Cassidy smiling and looking directly at me.

 

I was really hyped. Gavin said, try one photo, so I looked at just one photo and Cassidy tried to alter it.

 

If I sat close, nothing happened. But, as I moved back, I could feel the image not losing any quality: in retrospect, my brain was filling in the gaps after viewing that image for a long time. Then the features started to wiggle around and distort- not that little wiggly stuff, but honestly sliding up and down, growing and shrinking, then twisting, turning... I don't know the name, but something like this is supposed to happen if you stare at your face in a mirror in near-darkness for a long time. Without knowing any better, I'm going to say the "see faces" part of my brain got satiated, in the same way you can get color afterimages when your color receptors get satiated. That was new experience no. 1, which definitely set me in a good mindset for the Ganzfield.

 

My first thought, when I lied down in the dark, blind and deaf via static and noise cancellation was, "This is way more comfortable than I thought." I could have fallen asleep- but pretty soon I got very excited.

 

My sense of time for all this is less than reliable, but after what felt like 5 minutes, I felt like my vision was whirling, spinning. I saw a vague gridlike pattern that swirled fast, and I felt just a little dizzy, but it wasn't bad. It further made me go "Okay, I can do this, I am having a response." It only lasted about a minute.

 

I started talking with Cassidy. He's getting fond of Unitarian Universalism and wants to do a read-through of some holy texts. I fell into hypnagogia and saw weird ocean creatures and scenes from the story I'm writing, vaguely and in the mind's eye. I counted fourty breaths three times.

 

I'm going to guess around the 20 minute mark, Cassidy said "This isn't working for me, I can't get in [to your vision]." Gavin decided to give it a try.

 

With my eyes open, against this black grainy field, first I saw a blob. Then, colors all around, somewhat like how you see if you press on your eyes. And Gavin said, "Make them the right color," and they all spun and turned dark green, then everything popped out of view. I was about to go "no, it's over!" but then the blob came back and faded in to become Gavin's green eye, staring at me. First, the size of a dime, then he got closer and closer until he felt inches from my face and it suddenly disappeared. The while, I could feel Gavin's presence on top of me, but it was even realer. We were all excited and I was full adrenaline high, so I waited a minute or two more, then took off the mask and sound, wrote about the experiences, and went to bed very happy.

 

I know Cassidy really wants to be seen, more than Gavin does, but imposing Gavin was still very awesome. Will try it again. I think it was all about frame of mind. There's meaningless audio and visual: but you can force your brain to see meaning, to see patterns, to say "it's not static, it's a green eye" and have your brain generate that vision. Man, that was fun. Hopefully I will learn something that can translate to imposition when I'm not in pitch black.

 

-J

[Redacted System]

Awesome! Congratulations you guys!

[Guest]

This is just like hypnagogia for me. Very cool! Especially when you said, "but you can force your brain to see meaning, to see patterns, to say "it's not static, it's a green eye" and have your brain generate that vision".

 

I just ask politely, I don't force it, ;) my tulpas do the rest.

[Jamie]

Thanks @Azure!

 

@Bear, or anyone else, really, I'd love to hear it: Do you have any tips for controlling that state? It feels like a muscle I didn't know I had, and also feels like a mental trick in the same way switching, dissociation, and falling into trance are. There's no way to grab someone else's hand and force them to do it, there's no way to even see someone else moving their hand and doing it, it's an entirely internal mechanism that you just... have to figure out how to do. ...Probably why most imposition guides are primarily about trying for hours and hours. But I'll still ask: what can I do for greater control?

 

-J