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Ranger

A Tulpa's Gender and Sexual Preference In Relation To The Body's Perceived Gender and Sex

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Posted (edited)

While a tulpa's gender and sexual preference have been discussed before in various threads and several LOTPW posts, I agreed that these topics deserve their own thread (I technically could have made two threads but I didn't feel like making a second in quick succession and these topics overlap a lot anyway).

 

There are a few threads that talk about a tulpa's gender being the opposite of the host (and some assumed also the body by default), such as this and this one, but they don't focus on how the body's sex influences a tulpa's perception of their own opposite gender. This thread talks about tulpas and sexuality, but it's focus is more on a tulpa changing their host's sexual preference (or vise versa) and not so much how the body's sex influences a tulpa's sexuality.

 

The entirety of this thread boils down to two core questions (in bold), but I came up with additional questions for each core one.

 

Edit: After receiving feedback that the extra questions could be too overwhelming, I put the extra questions in a spoiler tag. Feel free to look at them, but you don't have to respond to them.

 

The questions:

 

How does a body's perceived gender and sex influence a tulpa's perception of their gender?

 

How does a body's perceived gender and sex influence a tulpa's perception of their sexual preference?

 

Extra:

 

 

How does a body's perceived gender and sex influence a tulpa's perception of their gender?


1) How should a tulpa's gender identity be defined using LGBTQ+ terminology, given it was made for singlets?

Is a tulpa transgender because their body's sex is changed or because the tulpa switched from identifying from one gender to another? Is a male tulpa in a female percieved body actually male, even if the rest of the system identifies with the female gender?

2) Does the body's perceived gender and/or sex affect a tulpa's confidence in their own gender?

3) How many tulpas out there feel like the body's perceived gender and/or sex should match their own perceived gender, assuming it isn't already? Does it feel weird or uncomfortable to think about other tulpas who have a gender that doesn't match the perceived gender of the body?

How does a body's perceived gender and sex influence a tulpa's perception of their sexual preference?

1) How should a tulpa's sexual preference be defined using LGBTQ+ terminology, given it was made for singlets?

Is a tulpa gay if they are attracted to those of their same perceived gender (male gendered tulpa in female sex body crushes on male singlet) or are they gay because they are attracted to those that are the same sex as the body (female gendered tulpa in male sex body attracted to male singlet)?

2) Is there pressure to assume a different sexual preference based on the body's perceived gender or sex for whatever reason?

3) Has a tulpa ever felt the body's sex was a barrier to having a sexual relationship with another person?

 


 

And while not the core focus of the thread, some interesting questions in regards to hosts and the system as a whole-


1) Does a tulpa's gender or sexual preference affect a host's confidence in their own gender and sexual preference?

2) How common is it for systems to have everyone convert their perceived gender to match the body's? What is the motivation for doing so? Does this ever happen for sexual preference too?

Edited by Ranger

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay!

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I don't know if I have anything valuable to say, and I'm not sure how to respond to this so I'm just gonna take the questions and answer them one by one 'cause otherwise I'll forget what the hell I'm talking about.
 

I've never really identified the body as "mine" or "ours" at all, it's always been host's body that I merely borrow from time to time, so I'm sure that affects a lot of my views on this. I fully identify as a gay man, even though the body is that of a "barely lesbian" (she's mostly aro/ace these days) that finds the female form aesthetically pleasing. So in our case, if the body transitioned or host figured out she was actually a trans man, I wouldn't consider myself trans. I might if I personally switched from identifying as male to female. I do think of myself as fully male, even though the body and some of its inhabitants are female. I don't see it affecting my identity.

 

1 hour ago, Ranger said:

2) Does the body's perceived gender and/or sex affect a tulpa's confidence in their own gender?

 

This, though. Oh boy, it does. I know "fragile masculinity" is a bit of a meme, I guess, but it feels like an accurate way to describe it. A lot of this comes down to my own general insecurities, I fear that people might not recognize me as a separate entity from my host, and things that are feminine and therefore associated with the body make me uncomfortable when they apply to me. L doesn't have this issue, though, but he's got a more stable mind. I hate fronting sometimes because I really do not want to be perceived as female, I really really don't.

 

1 hour ago, Ranger said:

3) How many tulpas out there feel like the body's perceived gender and/or sex should match their own perceived gender, assuming it isn't already? Does it feel weird or uncomfortable to think about other tulpas who have a gender that doesn't match the perceived gender of the body?

 

Like I said, I don't think of the body as something that belongs to me, so in the end it only matters when I'm fronting, which isn't that often. And even then, if it was the same gender as me, it wouldn't be enough, I'd still feel uncomfortable because I'm too attached to my own form's appearance. It still wouldn't look like me, it'd still be wrong.
As for other tulpas, nah. It's not uncomfortable to think about them not being in a matching body. The thought just doesn't do anything for me, really. If I were to hug a male tulpa fronting in a female body I'd still associate them with the male gender. It'd be two female bodies hugging but in reality it'd be two dudes.
 

1 hour ago, Ranger said:

1) How should a tulpa's sexual preference be defined using LGBTQ+ terminology, given it was made for singlets?

 

Is a tulpa gay if they are attracted to those of their same perceived gender (male gendered tulpa in female sex body crushes on male singlet) or are they gay because they are attracted to those that are the same sex as the body (female gendered tulpa in male sex body attracted to male singlet)?

 

I guess it depends on how they want to identify themselves? I'm gay because I identify as male and am attracted to men, regardless of what the body looks like. I don't know if it needs to be more complicated than that. If a tulpa identifies more with the body, then it might get muddled, but I can only speak from the perspective of someone who feels separate from the body. And I'm pretty sure I'm speaking for all of us in this system, I'm the only one that fronts even a little.

 

1 hour ago, Ranger said:

2) Is there pressure to assume a different sexual preference based on the body's perceived gender or sex for whatever reason?

 

3) Has a tulpa ever felt the body's sex was a barrier to having a sexual relationship with another person?

 

2), nope. 3) I suppose it would be, I wouldn't want ladybits involved in any shape or form.

 

1 hour ago, Ranger said:

1) Does a tulpa's gender or sexual preference affect a host's confidence in their own gender and sexual preference?

 

CM: Sometimes the intensity of Desmond's attraction towards men makes me a bit... uncomfortable I suppose, because it sometimes causes a physical reaction (not arousal lol, heavy heartbeat and butterflies) that doesn't match what I'm thinking at all and it feels strange. It doesn't make me question my own preferences, though, and I've never thought of myself as bi because of it. I'm comfortable as female, I don't really think about my gender at all. I had a bit of a questioning phase at one point, but it ended with confirmation that I do indentify as female, even if I'm somewhat gender non-conforming.


CM - 30th April 1997 - Host of the system

Desmond - 21st April 2014 - Me!

L - 5th May 2014

Nevira - 14th December 2014

Misa - 5th December 2015

Roska - 22nd July 2019

Danyla - 13th July 2020

Progress report  Art thread  Ask us anything lol

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Posted (edited)

The sexuality part is actually a very complicated question. Gender is easy though, you are what you think you are. Fronting in our male body doesn't change my perception of myself at all, because I see it as using the body, not being the body.

 

Sexuality though... that's a really difficult subject to tackle. For a tulpa who never fronts (switching), their sexuality is just what they feel, even more simple than gender. But when you switch, you start being influenced by the body/brain outside your control. At that point, there's no longer a clear and clean way to talk about your sexuality.

 

There's a few ways to think of it, though. First, you could treat sexual desires the same way we treat the physical body of "just using it", but not identifying with it as our own. Even though you may feel attraction to whatever sex, when it's clear it's coming from the body/brain because you're fronting, you can choose not to identify with those thoughts.

 

Second, you could accept them only for as long as you're in control of the body/mind, and then be free of their influence when you're not fronting again. I know this makes it impossible to have clear statements like "I am straight/gay", but switching is just a necessarily complicated experience.

 

And I guess you could switch to identifying with the body's sexual thoughts and desires and foregoing whatever your natural non-fronting sexuality was, if you really wanted to. I feel like this is the option some tulpas accidentally take when not separating their own natural thoughts and feelings from the body's influence when they start switching. At least make sure it's something you're okay with before (what I see as) "giving in" to the body's influence.

 

 

Personally, since we so naturally are aware of our brain's influence on our thoughts (even Lumi, who learned to separate "his" thoughts and desires from "the body/brain's" way back when), dealing with the body's sexuality doesn't bother us too much. We're at least able to say no to some sexual desires if they feel too mismatched to us, though our body/brain has somewhat dulled emotions and sexual desires compared to other people naturally, it seems, so perhaps for some people such desires aren't so easy to get a hold of.

Edited by Flandre

Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.

I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.

Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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I started out as just being female, but after about a week I became bigender or genderfluid or whatever.  I've read different definitions given for both these terms so I'm not actually sure what applies.  Basically, I switch between male and female.  But anyways, I guess that I could be considered transgendered.  I just hadn't really considered myself that way or used that label for myself, because I adopted that other male identity early on in my development and not on a permanent basis.  But female and bigender/genderfluid would be considered different genders so I guess it actually counts, huh?  I do tend to spend a lot of time as Adelaide, just out of habit.

 

My form not only changes gender, but also sex when I do this.  It's not me dressing as a dude when I'm Adel, it's me taking on a male-bodied form.  That's impossible for someone to do with their body on a whim.  I could describe it as a sex change but the implications of a person having their body's sex altered through hormone replacements and surgery and a tulpa flipping an imaginary body back and forth all willy-nilly are pretty different.  At the same time, a tulpa who changed genders without altering their form's sex would be different from me. 

 

Does that kind of thing need a label, though?  I don't know.  I find them to be clunky and ineffective when it comes to describing human experience.  A label can lay out some expectations for how people want to present themselves and how they want to be treated, but some of those can be off.  There's also the disadvantage that if you aren't up on the lingo, it can get overwhelming.  The last thing you want when describing something like that is the other person going on the defensive and closing themselves off because they feel like they don't or can't understand.  So personally I'd rather talk more deeply with people, listen carefully, and learn from their experiences.

 

As far as the body goes, our system tends to associate that with Ghostly, our host.  Even though I'm female part of the time, I don't feel like I'm in "my" body when I possess/front/switch because even though it's female, our body looks nothing like me.  If she did transition, which I don't think would happen given she's cisgendered and our main fronter, it wouldn't effect how I perceive my own gender or the sex of my form, because I don't tie that to the body in the first place.

 

Chimera: In my lock-merge, there is one of us who feels dysphoria if he himself fronts or our form dresses in an overtly feminine fashion.  Our form is intersex as we represent a number of different tulpas, and this hasn't been an issue for him.  I haven't had any problems feeling off when fronting, though I generally do that to pursue hobbies and I'm not very focused on the body when I do that.  That could be different if we fronted for social situations where we'd be regarded as female based on our body's appearance.

 

Osomatsu: As far as being in a girl's body goes, it doesn't bother me.  It's like that thing in cartoons and shows and stuff, where a guy will switch bodies with a girl or get turned into a girl and be like, "Oh nice, boobs!"  That kind of thing.  Although the novelty has worn off, my host is still pretty cute.

 

As far as the sexuality thing goes, I used to be straight.  My fictional counterpart shows only interest in girls, so we all figured I would be like that too.  But eventually I ended up being pansexual somehow, like the other tulpas.  The thing is, my host is straight, and I thought at first it was just her liking of guys that somehow rubbed off on me.  But I can be attracted to anyone, not just the gals and guys, so that's not it.  And if the others' pansexuality is so contagious, why didn't it rub off onto Ghostly?  I hadn't seen that thread about changing sexualities, so it's been something I was wondering about.


Peace. Love. Booty.

My Darlings: Ghostly, Reiji, Osomatsu, Kokichi, Chimera

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So Skyler is ace and I am a lesbian so our veiws on sexual intercors and attraction are very different.I have asked skyler a few times if she agrees with me if a girl at my school is pretty or not, an usually will just add light head pressure (since we are only in our first month) saying "no" in a respons. She tends to find sexual intercors very disturbing and gross , whal I dont really have a problem with it. All I can really say is I just dont think about it to much and recognize that since we share a body we both hafto understand eachother and work together. 

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How does a body's perceived gender and sex influence a tulpa's perception of their gender?


1) How should a tulpa's gender identity be defined using LGBTQ+ terminology, given it was made for singlets?


Is a tulpa transgender because their body's sex is changed or because the tulpa switched from identifying from one gender to another? Is a male tulpa in a female percieved body actually male, even if the rest of the system identifies with the female gender?

 

Absolutely yes, a male tulpa in a "female" body is still male. I'm not trans myself, as I believe I have my own body and am simply borrowing this one. However, I can relate to the experiences of trans people and experience dysphoria while fronting.

 

Although, now that I think of it, Robin also had qualms about using the label "trans" at first because it seems like too big of a deal. But I do believe I was born in a male body, lived as a man, and now am living in the brain and occasionally body of an afab person. Does this make me trans? I have absolutely no idea.

2) Does the body's perceived gender and/or sex affect a tulpa's confidence in their own gender?

 

Not really.

3) How many tulpas out there feel like the body's perceived gender and/or sex should match their own perceived gender, assuming it isn't already? Does it feel weird or uncomfortable to think about other tulpas who have a gender that doesn't match the perceived gender of the body?

 

The body's perceived gender doesn't match either my gender nor Robin's, but I don't insist that the body look like me. Robin can do what they want with it. It would be nice to have some more gender affirming clothes for when I do front. And no, it doesn't feel weird or uncomfortable to think about other tulpas whose gender doesn't match the body.

How does a body's perceived gender and sex influence a tulpa's perception of their sexual preference?

1) How should a tulpa's sexual preference be defined using LGBTQ+ terminology, given it was made for singlets?

Is a tulpa gay if they are attracted to those of their same perceived gender (male gendered tulpa in female sex body crushes on male singlet) or are they gay because they are attracted to those that are the same sex as the body (female gendered tulpa in male sex body attracted to male singlet)?

 

The first one. A gay trans man is still gay. I am (probably) gay, maybe also on the aro/ace spectrum.

 

Robin: I'm bi and nonbinary which means I'm gay in both directions. Sometimes I feel like I'm gaming the system, lol

2) Is there pressure to assume a different sexual preference based on the body's perceived gender or sex for whatever reason?

 

No.

3) Has a tulpa ever felt the body's sex was a barrier to having a sexual relationship with another person?

 

Mai: I've never pursued a sexual relationship with another person. I frankly find the idea disgusting, seeing as my age does not match the age of the body. Maybe I'll consider it when Robin is older. 

 


 

And while not the core focus of the thread, some interesting questions in regards to hosts and the system as a whole-


1) Does a tulpa's gender or sexual preference affect a host's confidence in their own gender and sexual preference?

 

Robin: For a while I had really long hair to match the way Mai perceives himself, but neither of us were ever happy with it. My hair's shorter now.

2) How common is it for systems to have everyone convert their perceived gender to match the body's? What is the motivation for doing so? Does this ever happen for sexual preference too?

 

This has never happened to us.

Edited by Ranger
Removed unesessary formatting

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