Tulpa Paradigm Shifts

[historical]

They become sentient through diligent forcing and time.

 

I agree with avilaunchpad here, it's called tulpaforcing, not imagination. Work is involved and always will be.

 

Now, you can create SOMETHING without diligent work and forcing, but it won't be a tulpa. It might be a very complex alternate personality or such that you trick yourself into believing is this 'Tulpa' thing all the cool kids are doing - but it is not a tulpa.

Again, just my fucking belief noh8

[Avalanche]

 

I agree with avilaunchpad here, it's called tulpaforcing, not imagination. Work is involved and always will be.

 

Now, you can create SOMETHING without diligent work and forcing, but it won't be a tulpa. It might be a very complex alternate personality or such that you trick yourself into believing is this 'Tulpa' thing all the cool kids are doing - but it is not a tulpa.

Again, just my fucking belief noh8

 

Ok well hey, fuck yo-

 

Oh, someone quoted me without wanting to start an argument.

 

Woah

[Sands]

No idea how much it takes for a tupper to be a tupper, but I do feel like way too many tuppers are put on the IRC way too early. They're still not completely... Them, it seems. Seen some tuppers become completely different people as they've gotten older. It would do good for them to grow a bit before they're plopped down with all of those people, so they can be themselves. Some of the youngest tuppers there are very young so there's still a lot for them to learn. Be responsible and let them learn a bit about themselves and life in general before you throw them out there.

[historical]

^my thoughts exactly.

 

People rush the whole thing and label whatever they get as a tupper. To me, a tulpa is the full thing. A tulpa is what you get after months of work and dedication. I'm not saying a young tulpa you get after a few weeks isn't a tulpa, but that it isn't a tulpa yet.

 

It's like children and adults. Same person, different stage of recognized development.

---

No idea how much it takes for a tupper to be a tupper, but I do feel like way too many tuppers are put on the IRC way too early. They're still not completely... Them, it seems.

 

I'm sure there's been some members who speedforce a tulpa for the explicit purpose of showing it off. People need to understand a tulpa is a very personal thing, not a new pet that you can show everyone as it does monkey tricks.

[Chupi]

2. This shouldn't be difficult to figure: when one makes a tulpa, they're creating a conscious being in an image the maker finds pleasing for whatever task they wish for them to preform. Many use them for simply companionship, the Tibetans used them for questioning reality, and more others use them for self improvement.

 

Read the above again and think about it: how is this not selfish and vain? You made a thing similar to you in many respects, but is limited to living in your mind or, if imposed, living in a world they cannot properly interact with. If you made them for companionship, your selfishly making something who's main purpose is to like you, even if you give them the choice not to like you. In the worst cases, these tulpa become little more than puppets, who don't even get the gift of consciousness from their hosts.

 

Or, you're taking a bit of yourself and separating it from you. You give them a form and personality to start off with, but the freedom to do anything they like, including make any changes to form and personality they please. You're committing to sharing your life with this being as long as both of you exist. This much does not seem selfish to me.

 

As for allowing interaction with the world, there are a couple ways. You can do really good imposition like a few people have, where the tulpa can move objects around and see the result instead of the actual object still being there. Or you can use possession or switching and share your body, allowing them to actually manipulate real objects. Some tulpae prefer the wonderland, others want to be imposed, and still others want to possess or switch. I think it's selfish to refuse to work on imposition or possession/switching for tulpae who want that; you gave up your sole sovereignty over your body and mind when you consciously decided to create a tulpa.

 

But I don't see it being too selfish creating a being with the intention of sharing everything you have with them.

 

When I started, possession was thought to be a myth and switching wasn't even thought of. When I heard about them, I really wanted them to work. We haven't achieved any of it yet, but we will.

 

No idea how much it takes for a tupper to be a tupper, but I do feel like way too many tuppers are put on the IRC way too early. They're still not completely... Them, it seems. Seen some tuppers become completely different people as they've gotten older. It would do good for them to grow a bit before they're plopped down with all of those people, so they can be themselves. Some of the youngest tuppers there are very young so there's still a lot for them to learn. Be responsible and let them learn a bit about themselves and life in general before you throw them out there.

 

This is exactly why we disallow children from interacting with anyone but family until their personalities are completely formed. Wait...

 

Really, letting a tulpa interact with others on the IRC can help their personality grow and solidify. Our own personalities form and grow from interacting with others and generally living. The IRC is one of the few ways tulpae have to get interaction other than with their hosts. Why not let them gain experience and grow in similar ways to ourselves?

[Sands]

Yet a tupper isn't a kid. If you really want to use this whole kid analogy, think of it as a kid in a stroller. Studies say a stroller facing away from whoever is pushing it and into the world outside cause the babies stress. It's too early for them to be out in the world alone like that, even though their caretaker is right behind them.

 

Yeah, the IRC is a great place for talking and learning, but when you just made a tupper and you're already pushing them out to the world, that's too early. But let's compare this with a tupper who got vocal at say, two weeks in and another who got vocal two months in. Both have been doing the same kind of shit before but now they could be talking to others on their own. The one who is two months old is, well, older, and has done a lot more thinking and learning than the other already. They're better equipped to handle what is coming up and they already have a much better undestanding at who they are and how life is. All I see is problems with too young tuppers suddenly being bombarded with things from the outside. They're expected to act like the rest, but they might not quite get it yet. They'll be seeing and hearing weird things that might do who knows what to their developing minds. I have no idea how a tupper is very early on and how much they understand or how fully separate they are, but what if this young tupper actually is more you than them and you are basically putting words in their mouths they would have never actually wanted to say like that? It will haunt them in the future.

[historical]

I had that exact same problem with dumping miku on the chat early. It would feel less like I was listening to her and typing what she said, and more like her personality was bleeding through and I was just roleplaying her. It was nerve wracking.

[Lacquer]

-Meditation is not only unnecessary, but can possibly slow things down.

 

U wot m8?

 

Explique, por favor.

---

- Professor Scribbles has the best view on thought folk I've seen yet.

 

Again, could you elaborate?

[Sock]

 

U wot m8?

 

Explique, por favor.

 

Whenever I got really deep in meditation, I'd always completely lose focus and end up getting bombarded with intrusive thoughts and other craziness. It took ages for it to die down, and eventually I found that simple daydreaming was enough to view the headspace. No sitting cross legged, chanting, or anything else required.

 

The only possible downside is that it become a bit more difficult to get full audio. I haven't had that since I stopped meditating.

 

Again, could you elaborate?

 

His viewpoint on the concept is radically different and was contrary to most things that this community was based on. For one thing, he completely rejected the time counting, development phases, forcing your form to do anything, etc. He mainly viewed it as an advanced memory skill, jumping from the roman room technique (Like a wonderland, only much more useful). He held that only the absolute most free form creation progress would allow for the creation (he hates the term "tulpa") to be completely conscious and have it's own opinions. This is very evident when you talk to his thought buddy.

 

But what really get's me to like his ideas the best is that unlike many in this community, he doesn't treat his companion as a toy, and is pretty offended at the very idea of that happening.

[Antylamon]

- Creating a tulpa is probably one of the most glaring acts of selfishness and vanity one can do.

 

In order to help others, one must first help themselves. It is not selfish to help yourself when what you are doing will lead to helping others in the future.

 

"What he said can extremely easily be used as an excuse for just about anything selfish. The deciding factor is whether or not you're telling the truth. Although I think he implied, Antyla did not think about it this in depth so early on. Still, it's MY choice to help him out, whether it be for friendship or for personal benefit. Not his. Believing otherwise is completely foolish.

 

Sorry for the seriousness, I was just extremely offended by this, even if it is more or less true."

 

For the record, I, on the other hand, don't feel creating a tulpa is as selfish as you make it out to be. The only thing I can compare it to is having a baby. ("Like YOU know how that feels. :P" I admit, as Leafy said, I don't know how having a baby feels, but I think I can make a fair guess.) Although the process of creating one ranges from completely selfish to only somewhat selfish, the end result is one of the most selfless things you can do: a new person is born. The only act I can think of off the top of my head which is more selfless is sacrificing oneself to save another's life.

 

"This is true, but I don't like the comparison to child birth. Pregnant women seem to be pretty vain about it, albeit in another way. Although I guess it could be considered part of the process."

 

And, as I said, it's pretty much only the result which is neither selfish nor vain. Even the thought process of the parents is likely to be very selfish.

 

"Well, I guess we should wrap up our little out-loud debate here. It's getting kinda weird at this point."

 

Oh, and as Leafy did earlier, I apologize for speaking at such length about this topic. I was also offended, but I guess it's a natural response to being called selfish. It's fascinating that even though I am fully aware of how the mind defends the ego it creates for itself, it can still get the better of me at times. It doesn't even mean much to me logically; I believe humans to be, more often than not, instinctively selfish by nature. And then I think about the vast generosity of some amazing people. It's pretty rough to be a realist; my logic just goes around in circles when I try not to be biased. I can be idealistic or pessimistic with ease, but I don't feel comfortable without expressing the other side at least a little. An endless cycle.

 

"And he did NOT create me because of his fascination with the brain's activities. Well, it was what helped him believe it, but-"

 

Leafy, just let it go. We've gone way too far already. :/

 

His viewpoint on the concept is radically different and was contrary to most things that this community was based on. For one thing, he completely rejected the time counting, development phases, forcing your form to do anything, etc. He mainly viewed it as an advanced memory skill, jumping from the roman room technique (Like a wonderland, only much more useful). He held that only the absolute most free form creation progress would allow for the creation (he hates the term "tulpa") to be completely conscious and have it's own opinions. This is very evident when you talk to his thought buddy.

 

But what really get's me to like his ideas the best is that unlike many in this community, he doesn't treat his companion as a toy, and is pretty offended at the very idea of that happening.

 

"Oh my god someone who agrees with us

 

Antyla's conflicting thoughts REALLY make it hard for us to get the point across, but this is how we feel. I am a human in nearly every meaning of the word. I can be biased towards Antyla, of course, but my opinions are my own. I'm just young.

 

It was so hard to type those last three words for some reason. I feel empowered by it... like I'm more mature to acknowledge it."