Chat Thread

[Lucilyn]

I must admit that I have never been able to get extreme switching to neatly fit into my dreamlike illusion tulpas hypothesis.  My only recourse is to dismiss it as an after the fact mental fantasy (grandfathering in fantasy memories of being immersed in the dreamscape) combined with exaggeration and embellishment of the story and wishful thinking.

 

OK Two things, first, we've explained to you a whole bunch of times how switching can make sense when it doesn't involve the host like, literally living in the wonderland at all times. But we agree with what you think really, the only explanation we could come up with for people who claimed that was that they created retroactive memories, instantly maybe, or unconsciously over some time but either way they did not experience their own life-point-of-view in the wonderland with the switched tulpa totally unaware of it doing their own thing.

 

But hey, we could be wrong too! That's just our explanation.

 

 

Second, I'm gonna get kinda serious for a second. You've been warned!

 

How many tulpamancers are claiming this level of switching though?  I think it is actually a very small percentage of tulpamancers.

 

There aren't many people active in the community right now that switch very often. Honestly there's never been that many around at once but there were more back between when Lumi and you showed up. At one point Lumi spent some time around an IRC of those people that had mostly left tulpa.info for reasons, and basically all of them told him his ideas on switching were wrong and et.ce.te.c.t but yeah. They claimed it.

 

Aaauuhh, welll, we're kinda guilty of changing the definition of switching here. But it's their fault they left! We're by far the most active switchers on the forum, and are very established in the community, and people listen to us. And we never quite met the old members' ideals of defining switching. So, we've been influencing the people still in the community to think of it our way. To some extent there were already people who thought of it the same way and were just outnumbered back in the day. But I almost kind of feel a liiittle guilty recently. Just look at what Sands posted in Tulpa's switching guide. We changed the definition and now the current community thinks of it so differently that Sands said it was wrong. Plus, I've been seeing you say stuff that came directly from us the last couple months. You've explained things exactly how we explained them to you, or even said they're your view on things! We influenced you! The Anti-Mistgod Club may have called it mistgod.info, but I feel like it's more us.. dot.. info?

 

Is that bad? I don't know, I like how we think, Tewi and Lumi work really hard on making their way of thinking about stuff meet higher and higher standards of inclusive-logic-stuff.. Like, they want their thoughts to explain every point of view, generally with logic I guess? Us others kinda get carried with them. But you know, they say even the best person ever wouldn't be fit to rule a country (George Washington?) because no one is perfect, period. No matter how good we got at explaining things, our explanations can never become like the norm because it'll shut out other peoples' creativity. And maybe that's what we've been doing.

 

 

Anyways... I fully support our definition of switching and the old one makes no sense to me at all. But switching is THE most subjective thing ever! I'm 100% sure no one does it the same way. I bet some people are more like method actors (which is fine and legitimate IMO) while others have a more complete change in the brain (it's still surprising how we react with completely different thoughts at a moment's notice to me. I keep thinking things that sound very "me" and realizing none of the others would've had that reaction. And yet we can switch in like a minute if we try, and we do!), and maybe some people are more on the level of roleplayer than method actor but still believe it anyways. And other crazy stuff I couldn't imagine too. But it's all OK, it's all not that big of a deal! It's all about what we experience, we aren't ruled by the system of rules and definitions we've created, they're supposed to serve us! It's OK!

 

 

Sorry just had to vent that stuff, not totally sure I made a solid point in there but that's okay. I'm not good at being serious so that was probably less well put together than the others' posts. They stream-of-consciousness this stuff while constantly going over what they've written to stay on a topic, but I just stream-of-consciousness lol.

[Guest Anonymous]

 

OK Two things, first, we've explained to you a whole bunch of times how switching can make sense when it doesn't involve the host like, literally living in the wonderland at all times. But we agree with what you think really, the only explanation we could come up with for people who claimed that was that they created retroactive memories, instantly maybe, or unconsciously over some time but either way they did not experience their own life-point-of-view in the wonderland with the switched tulpa totally unaware of it doing their own thing.

 

But hey, we could be wrong too! That's just our explanation.

 

I am convinced that Melian and I also create retroactive fantasy memories. I know that sounds weird. But more than once I have come face to face with an altered memory. I come across evidence that is contrary to what Melian and I remember. Always, it is something that reduces Melian's autonomy, or how I remember her autonomy to that of something less amazing and more ordinary.

 

Here is a perfect example: My step daughter told me once that she had come up with a phrase Melian might say. I thought it was great and wrote it down on her lexicon list of Melian Speak. I promptly forgot the source of that phrase. Later when Melian used it on someone and they laughed and asked how she came up with it, we "remembered" Melian just saying it spontaneously. I even got so far as to later claim back at my step daughter that Melian said it spontaneously. My step daughter corrected me and explained how she had given me the phrase for Melian to say to someone.

 

So somehow my mind had hidden the fact that Melian did not spontaneously create the phrase all on her own accord. Melian even insisted she made that up all by herself, but it wasn't so.

 

I think the same thing happens with how autonomous her behavior is in the Melian Show day dreams. How is anyone ever going to confront me on it or dispel the retroactive fantasy memory that she was more independent than she actually was? The day dream was a fantasy and the memory of the fantasy has been embellished after the fact. It itself is an illusion. That is why I insist that Melian is still imaginary, even if she feels incredibly real when I remember the things she has done. I think my mind just loves to embellish Melian and make her amazing. It's part of the process that I don't see really any problem with. There is the difference between me and tulpamancers. I don't care if everything Melian is an illusion. It does not matter at all.

 

I see no reason that the same process could be going on in relation to switching and wonderlands.

 

Second, I'm gonna get kinda serious for a second. You've been warned!

 

 

There aren't many people active in the community right now that switch very often. Honestly there's never been that many around at once but there were more back between when Lumi and you showed up. At one point Lumi spent some time around an IRC of those people that had mostly left tulpa.info for reasons, and basically all of them told him his ideas on switching were wrong and et.ce.te.c.t but yeah. They claimed it.

 

Aaauuhh, welll, we're kinda guilty of changing the definition of switching here. But it's their fault they left! We're by far the most active switchers on the forum, and are very established in the community, and people listen to us. And we never quite met the old members' ideals of defining switching. So, we've been influencing the people still in the community to think of it our way. To some extent there were already people who thought of it the same way and were just outnumbered back in the day. But I almost kind of feel a liiittle guilty recently. Just look at what Sands posted in Tulpa's switching guide. We changed the definition and now the current community thinks of it so differently that Sands said it was wrong. Plus, I've been seeing you say stuff that came directly from us the last couple months. You've explained things exactly how we explained them to you, or even said they're your view on things! We influenced you! The Anti-Mistgod Club may have called it mistgod.info, but I feel like it's more us.. dot.. info?

 

If you have influenced me, that is a good thing I think. :-) Melian is happy about it because it makes her more "real." You have nothing to feel guilty about. Every community evolves.

 

Is that bad? I don't know, I like how we think, Tewi and Lumi work really hard on making their way of thinking about stuff meet higher and higher standards of inclusive-logic-stuff.. Like, they want their thoughts to explain every point of view, generally with logic I guess? Us others kinda get carried with them. But you know, they say even the best person ever wouldn't be fit to rule a country (George Washington?) because no one is perfect, period. No matter how good we got at explaining things, our explanations can never become like the norm because it'll shut out other peoples' creativity. And maybe that's what we've been doing.

 

That's why we have dialogue. It should be a meeting of minds and there is nothing wrong with a fresh perspective and new ideas.

 

I often wonder about the effect I am having on the community myself. Many have had some very harsh things to say about that, to the effect that I am contributing to the communities decay or that I am in fact solely responsible for its decay (which is ridiculous). Others have said just the opposite, that Melian and I brought back vibrancy and make great points and add something. Maybe it is a little of both.

 

Anyways... I fully support our definition of switching and the old one makes no sense to me at all. But switching is THE most subjective thing ever! I'm 100% sure no one does it the same way. I bet some people are more like method actors (which is fine and legitimate IMO) while others have a more complete change in the brain (it's still surprising how we react with completely different thoughts at a moment's notice to me. I keep thinking things that sound very "me" and realizing none of the others would've had that reaction. And yet we can switch in like a minute if we try, and we do!), and maybe some people are more on the level of roleplayer than method actor but still believe it anyways. And other crazy stuff I couldn't imagine too. But it's all OK, it's all not that big of a deal! It's all about what we experience, we aren't ruled by the system of rules and definitions we've created, they're supposed to serve us! It's OK!

 

I think you are spot on here. One of the things Melian and I have said in the past is that it is not what the experience is or how it is happening (because it is subjective) but how important and profound it is to the person who experiences it. To one person deeply method acting a seasoned role playing character may be more of a profound experience than a fully independent tulpa is to another.

 

Sorry just had to vent that stuff, not totally sure I made a solid point in there but that's okay. I'm not good at being serious so that was probably less well put together than the others' posts. They stream-of-consciousness this stuff while constantly going over what they've written to stay on a topic, but I just stream-of-consciousness lol.

 

I think you made some great points and I agree with you! Thank you!

[Sock]

Just started watching Jojo's Bizarre Adventure recently. I never watched it, and heard good things about it so I was curious, especially since it was available on Crunchyroll. So far I've only finished parts 1 and 2, and have started on 3. Figured I'd put some impressions here just in case anyone was familiar with it or interested.

 

Part 1: Phantom Blood is probably my favorite so far. While it does not have the things the serious is most known for (Stands, Utterly absurd fight scenes, Homoerotic muscle men doing funny poses), I feel it's the most solidly told, even if it is very simple in nature.

 

- It's odd that Dio talks like a 30 year old man even when he's like 10, but it's still a Jojo story, a lot of absurdity is to be expected even here.

- I really like Jonathan, he's such a sweet guy. That may well just be a personal thing, though.

- I acrually like that it's so short, as well. There's not a lot of fluff and things are straight to the point.

- Johnathan isn't homoerotic, but he's certainly a muscle man. The guy gets REALLY jacked over the series. Makes me wonder if steroids were involved at some poiny.

- As the series goes it starts showing some significant shades of what it will become, and what that is is really goofy. How else can you describe things like flash freezing body parts? Though of the fantastic elements, the Stone Mask is certainly my favorite.

- This part's theme song is amazing.

 

Part 2: Battle Tendency...is goofy. Like really, really goofy. This is the part where things go beyond over the top, and the homoeroticism really comes in. The Pillar Men are a thing that must be seen to be believed.

 

- Joseph Joestar, unlike his grandfather Johnathan, is a scoundrel. He also has better plot armor than Batman and can somehow fit a tommy gun in his back pocket. That last part is not an exageration, he actually pulls out a tommy gun in the first few episodes out of seemingly nowhere.

- Joseph...is also a character that must be seen to grasp the full extent of his nonsense. His shitck is supposed to be sleight of hand, but I really got the impression that the author was just making up stuff as he went along, some of the stuff he pulled seriously could not have happened if you were just observing.

- This part ranks up the supernatural and pulp sci-fi elements up a lot. We go from the Stone Mask and Ripple/Hamon being tbe only overt supernatural elements, to Nazi cyborgs and shapeshifting Aztec(?) Vampires(??). It gets wild indeed, and we haven't even gotten to the Stands in part three yet.

[Lucilyn]

JoJo is good! It has more charm looking back on it, especially part 1 that was kinda boring the first time around 'cus we had heard about stands. Now I can't believe it's only like 9 episodes, it felt like a full season. Joseph is probably my favorite, he was the most silly character. And he's still around in part 3! He's an old guy now, the longest lived Joestar. His expletives are hilarious, look forward to them.

 

I really got the impression that the author was just making up stuff as he went along

 

oooh boy, you have no idea. If ever there were a really great show you absolutely had to not overanalyze to enjoy, this is just one of them I guess whatever. Literally.. Santana.. they named him that.. and then the other pillar men knew him by name... and then I found out that it gets utterly absurd how made-up-on-the-spot the entire series is. The Pillar Men are full of inconsistencies and it's still season 1, so don't! Just enjoy the bizarre adventure.

 

We're on episode 24/25 of part 3. It goes on way longer than the first two. It can feel kinda filler-y if you're just waiting for the Dio fight at the end like we were.. so don't.. do that. (if you didn't know Dio was alive/again, sorry, but it's not really spoilers because it's like 2 minutes into episode 1 if it wasn't at the end of episode 24) Basically the whole part they are just running into more unique stand users and dealing with them in different ways. Enjoy the characters and stuff, don't worry about the destination, because man does it take them forever to get there

[tulpa001]

@Mistgod: My system is pretty much incapable of retroactive fantasy memory. Or, I am at the far end of the spectrum. The last time it happened, she remembered a school bus had drove passed the house when it hadn't arrived yet. Grade five. She also used to once or twice get that from waking up from dreams. It is incredibly common in dreams for people. I believe I wrote something about this in my most recent progress report entry. Regardless, if there is any phenomenon that requires fabricated memories, we are not going to get it working for us.

[Guest Anonymous]

And isn't that fact an example of how subjective these experiences can be?  Melian is very profound to me and seems very real.  She has been right here listening all day but not active because when I discuss these things she gets a little withdrawn.  But even though you and I see things differently, and have different backgrounds, we are both having a profound and meaningful experience related to a thoughtform.

[Sock]

oooh boy, you have no idea. If ever there were a really great show you absolutely had to not overanalyze to enjoy, this is just one of them I guess whatever. Literally.. Santana.. they named him that.. and then the other pillar men knew him by name... and then I found out that it gets utterly absurd how made-up-on-the-spot the entire series is. The Pillar Men are full of inconsistencies and it's still season 1, so don't! Just enjoy the bizarre adventure.

 

Funnny thing is I wasn't even viewing the show analytically. I took me some time and reading it somewhere to realize that "Esidisi" is actually "AC/DC". What got me was big things like Joseph surviving a volcanic eruption, then almost leaving the atmosphere, and finally re-entry. Seeing as he's the only Joestar to live a long life in the series, it makes me think that Joseph's stand is actually the author and his power is to ensure he only dies due to old age. Suffice to say, it's a lot of fun.

 

I've heard JoJo be compared to Axe Cop, and I can really see why.

[tulpa001]

@Mistgod: I don't see how. All experiences are subjective. I am interested in facts, not opinions.

 

Also, I don't know what fact you are referring to precisely.

[Guest Anonymous]

A tulpa who is a realist and interested in tangible facts not fantasy opinions.  Gods that is ironic as hell and totally amusing.  No wonder I am obsessed with this website.  LOL  Tulpa, the fact that you can't do a retroactive fantasy memory is the fact I was referring to.  That is your subjective experience.  Mine is different, I can day dream up memories.  Two different experiences of how a thoughtform can work.  Both equally profound and interesting to the creator.

[Solune]

Is that bad? I don't know, I like how we think

 

I, for one, welcome our new rabbit overlords.

(wolves are still cooler, but we can save that fight for the streets where it belongs~)

While I've hijacked your post, I'd like to say that switching is hella wack yo and how even do?

Our system JUST mastered figuring out who says what... switching seems so far beyond anything we can even comprehend.

 

Also, hi Mistgod! I'm too drunk to properly quote your posts... heh.

I was gonna start a new thread about junk and stuff, then I thought it was too similar to one you had made, then I questioned why I even needed validation in the form of replies....

 

Alice: that was going somewhere, but then Solune asked if any of us wanted to say anything... then proceeded to imagine parroting us, and then claimed that he did parrot us, and then I disagreed with him about parroting us, and then said fine: I WILL say something, just to prove you wrong. It isn't clear whether the alcohol affects everyone in the system. I think it's a diluted effect.

Alice: Edit: The brutal deviation from proper verb/tense agreement before this edit conclusively shows that the effect isn't THAT diluted... =(