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[Misc] The child philosophy
Cjero Away
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#1
 
The child philosophy

Disclaimer
Tulpamancy is a heavily subjective phenomenon where there are no set right and wrong so the written content may not be useful or applicable for you. There are usually exceptions to many things and when reading a blanket statement it is likely to keep the text short and sweet. If any claims are made it is likely based off of personal experiences and interactions of others. Please enjoy your read!


The Child Philosophy
Written by Cjero with the help of Linkzelda and Sock (thank you very much!)


Foreword
This philosophy comes down to to understand that a tulpa is much like a child in the regard of development and that patience is required and for the most part will focus on neurology as its basis. It is also more focused on changing the mindset of the host to aid the development of their tulpa rather than outright treating them like a child (though there are elements of the latter). In addition this philosophy is focused on young tulpas and new hosts that are not sure on how to progress (although not strictly for). It will also help

The Philosophy (in general)
A tulpa is initially much like a baby or child in regards of development that how you interact with them will reflect on their growth as an individual. A human child takes years to develop speech and become ‘vocal’ through ceaseless narration; a tulpa much less because they can utilize your experiences. It takes a while for us to grow the strength and muscle memory to properly maneuver our body; a tulpa needs time to connect with the body to ‘possess’. Be patient. As patient as whoever raised you was by feeding you and cleaning your diapers.

When raising a tulpa you should be considerate of how you interact with them, for example if a tulpa is exposed to too much violence they may grow jaded or even consider it normal in the future. If they are babied and never told no they might grow spoiled. Neglect them and they might grow distant or asocial. When you create a tulpa with a preset personality they can still greatly deviate depending on your interactions with them since the human brain keeps developing until your late 30’s so it is important to treat them properly; it’s a tightrope.

The only shortcut to developing your child/tulpa faster is to interact more and consistently. In other words force them*. What many tulpamancers seem to do is usually sit behind their computers doing little with their young tulpas; show them the world! Having them learn from memories is the same as comparing sightseeing when actually present to simply viewing an image so take the liberty to allow your tulpa to explore the outside world because what may seem redundant to you might be exhilarating for them.


*but really forcing just means interacting

The Environment & First Times
It is important to be aware that the environment of your tulpa is the mind, even when imposed in the physical world. Your tulpa does not have a physical body that will process sensations for you so initially you will have to do it for them (referred to as sensory-imposition or simply imposition). A quick example: circle your index finger on your palm a couple of times then stop the act, then use the memory to simulate the sensation and keep it going. This will allow for more way to interact and potentially (relatively) better methods for developing your tulpa.
The reason it is important to be aware of your environment (aside that being aware of your environment is always beneficial for a multitude of reasons) is because the environment your tulpa is raised in is crucial. They might not potentially have bad classmates as they grow up or study however they might have to deal with negative thoughts which will reflect on their growth! If you are depressed and insist on making a tulpa it is heavily incentivized to keep your mind positive with happy thoughts. You might sometime have a slip of thought that could shock your tulpa. For example a completely impulsive and irregular thought of hurting an acquaintance so it is important to keep your environment stable and clean. Although this is where it gets tricky due to having to properly balance it out! If you do not expose your tulpa to any negativity or the ‘big bad adult world’ they might be unable to handle it in the future. Similar to how a child needs to be vaccinated, they need to be exposed to a milder version at first.


To keep improving this guide I would like to hear more feedback (PM's preferable) or things to expand on. It's not finished, though I want to add what I have for now.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2016, 01:09 AM by Kiahdaj.)
07-17-2015, 09:59 AM
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Yuki Offline
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#2
 
RE: The child philosophy

I don't think a one and a half paragraph text needs a foreword and tl;dr, especially when both of those are a sentence long. You're not writing a one page assignment for school. Try to make sure any structure you put into your text actually improves it, and if you're just writing a short tip, it can just be a short tip, it doesn't have to pretend to be something else.

As I said, it's short. Too short, in my opinion, seeing as there are plenty of noteworthy things that you are failing to mention entirely. Things like not having to actually treat your tulpa like a child. You are failing to mention merits of the parent/child relationship where the parent can protect the child. Letting them socialize, sure, but especially when they are young, it's good to keep a watchful eye on their interactions. Sock is a big proponent of this, he'll have something good to say. Anyway, you're not really going into this so called philosophy, you're just giving a few short tips that amount to little more than "be patient, force more". There can be a lot more to this.

Maybe it's useful to mention the alternative option of parroting. "Tulpamancy has no shortcuts" is pretty false when it comes to interacting with your tulpa directly, seeing as you can parrot and start with communicating directly. Of course it takes the right mindset, but the way you state it is saying that narration is the only option, which it isn't.

Right now, I don't think this post will really help anyone, as like I said, it's basically saying "force more". There's a lot more to explore with this philosophy, perhaps you should think about it a bit longer and try to expand on this stub. I think that treating a tulpa more like a child you're raising is a great thing, and I try to recommend being cautious with and protective of them and taking responsibility for their development even after vocality, but this post unfortunately doesn't show those important things.

Feel free to ask me anything.
Suffering is self-imposed. Don't let it control you.
07-18-2015, 11:24 AM
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Cjero Away
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#3
 
RE: The child philosophy

(07-18-2015, 11:24 AM)Yuki Wrote: I don't think a one and a half paragraph text needs a foreword and tl;dr, especially when both of those are a sentence long. You're not writing a one page assignment for school. Try to make sure any structure you put into your text actually improves it, and if you're just writing a short tip, it can just be a short tip, it doesn't have to pretend to be something else.

As I said, it's short. Too short, in my opinion, seeing as there are plenty of noteworthy things that you are failing to mention entirely. Things like not having to actually treat your tulpa like a child. You are failing to mention merits of the parent/child relationship where the parent can protect the child. Letting them socialize, sure, but especially when they are young, it's good to keep a watchful eye on their interactions. Sock is a big proponent of this, he'll have something good to say. Anyway, you're not really going into this so called philosophy, you're just giving a few short tips that amount to little more than "be patient, force more". There can be a lot more to this.

Maybe it's useful to mention the alternative option of parroting. "Tulpamancy has no shortcuts" is pretty false when it comes to interacting with your tulpa directly, seeing as you can parrot and start with communicating directly. Of course it takes the right mindset, but the way you state it is saying that narration is the only option, which it isn't.

Right now, I don't think this post will really help anyone, as like I said, it's basically saying "force more". There's a lot more to explore with this philosophy, perhaps you should think about it a bit longer and try to expand on this stub. I think that treating a tulpa more like a child you're raising is a great thing, and I try to recommend being cautious with and protective of them and taking responsibility for their development even after vocality, but this post unfortunately doesn't show those important things.

I thank you for your critique, having read over what you have said and what I've written I can agree that there could be more to add although the things mentioned I do not feel are worth it. This is but a short philosophy, a mindset which I'd submit to the 'Tips & Tricks' board rather than a full on guide. Regarding 'tulpamancy has no shortcuts' I do not think parroting is a shortcut as much as it is simply an alternate way of forcing. Nor am I implying that narration is the only thing. Although perhaps I should contact Sock, two minds are better than one to elaborate this post. This post was more meant for referring newbies to rather than progressing those that are familiar with this phenomenon.

You'll regret it. I'm telling you. Unless you just want to role-play, then go ahead.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2015, 12:08 PM by Cjero.)
07-18-2015, 11:45 AM
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Sands Offline
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#4
 
RE: The child philosophy

Yes, length really has nothing to do with Tips and Tricks, not even necessarily guides though those are expected to be more in detail. You could potentially have only one sentence if this sentence is good enough and explains your idea properly and in a way that it could be used. I do agree that the tl;dr is rather unnecessary.

There is one issue that you might want to point out, kinda like what Yucky addressed: a tulpa is not a child. Some might be more childlike and some do make them into their "child" to play home with or something, but they technically do have access to the experiences and knowledge you, the host, have. If you're not a child yourself, this tulpa in turn isn't exactly a child. Know where to draw the line, don't treat them as something "lesser". I'm sure you as an adult or even a teen person would be rather annoyed if someone treated you like a child, right? I know that this thread isn't about your tulpa being your child (I think, based on your writings), but you might want to make that extra sure as someone might take it too literally.

It could also lead to trouble when it comes to vocality if a host keeps thinking that the tulpa is too "young" to talk, even if they aren't. I would like to see some line about how vocality could potentially come at any time but even if it takes time, it's alright because everyone's different and all that. Or something like that, I think you could write it better.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
07-18-2015, 01:26 PM
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Linkzelda Offline
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#5
 
RE: The child philosophy

I think if the OP is treated as a heuristic for others to have an alternative perspective on assessing what to do with impatience, instant gratification, and even a temper tantrum (which would probably be predisposed habits of a child) that may distract someone from contributing in developing a tulpa, it can be a useful series of analogues as tips. I’m presuming that with the edit of the OP, the addition of:

OP Wrote:However like any child they will eventually grow, some faster than the others. It is your initial duty as the host to establish boundaries what is fine and what not. Remember that tulpamancy is a heavily subjective phenomenon meaning that it will be vastly different from one individual to another and this philosophy might not be the best for you.

is a useful disclaimer to prevent future knee-jerk responses for people that may take it too literally.


Now, for examples you could expand on:

- Speaking of which, the philosophy itself, if taken as a supplement, doesn’t seem that detrimental if one could find the right attitude(s) to assess it. For instance, if we took into account of tulpas that see themselves as a child (e.g. in their form) and not necessarily having a subsequent mentality of a child, that would raise questions on whether or not the word “child,” and other words that give that connotation is too small and petty compared to the grandiose spectrum of imagination and cognition a tulpa can explore within the mind they share; I guess it's bad news for those that may want to make a Mithos tulpa, huh? It's just an existential crisis just waiting to happen, heh.

- I know a few tulpas who may react negatively in even conceptualizing themselves as adults, though, this seems to be contingent on the form itself while not affecting whatever progressive development and the ability to go through experiential learning one implies them being capable of. In other words—a tulpa may have a spirt of a child, or the heart of a child, and still strive for some existential reigning in identifying themselves more than the context with the word "child" that may objectify their existence (e.g. being thought lesser of).

- Though, to worry if a tulpa is being treated less than the host (e.g. cognitive functionality of a child) can just be as controversial when the tables have turned where the host may have the idea that their tulpa seems more advanced, or more adept to tapping into everyday cognition to accomplish quotidian stuff. And even fostering the idea of their potential and limits being solely contingent on the host’s cognition in general also raises the question on which aspect of cognition we would be talking about. For instance, if we took into consideration of something like implicit knowledge that may seem like a progressive competency, one of many factors that may pop up to supplement in answering the dilemma on who’s more/equally/less intelligible is just who can refer to whatever cognitive reservoir more efficiently.

- But even then, the collective strive for retrieving information, and referring to certain competencies is just that; it contributes towards both host and the tulpa being able to refer to day-to-day usage of cognition to flourish in some way. And rather than encroaching connotations (for those that may take the OP too literally) of “child” with the progressive strive for developing sentience, both the host and their companion can absolve the “childish connotations”, and see their relationship beyond what we would utilize to associate our relationships with others (e.g. beyond seeing them as a mother, father, significant other).

- And when it comes to ways to treat a tulpa as sentient (e.g. via narration to promote whatever affirmation someone thinks the endeavor will cause), it would seem natural for someone to utilize the child philosophy as an analogue, but as long as they see it as a heuristic, and have the capability of being able to refer to other philosophies in the future, then there’s not much to worry about.

- But if they can’t, which seems self-defeating, it would be ironic as that would be akin to a child “not being able” to conceptualize something without first going through experiential cases, and eventually growing. And if we were to talk about endeavors like possession and switching, I’m sure a philosophy such as the OP would resonate in context, especially for those first attempting possession and switching, of a tulpa going through the motions of gathering sense data, and whatever sensations implied that they’re experiencing to develop their ability of existing, qualia, and trying to interpret a knowable world and reality around them.


These ramblings are more of supplements of topics you could expand on if you wanted to find more analogues as to why the child philosophy may be a useful supplement vs. implied as absolute law to those that may have a knee-jerk response in thinking OP is intending to do that. But I digress, the philosophy itself seems like a good stepping stone for a general discussion, or whatever section promoting others to further these concepts. Stepping out of analyzing the submission as a GAT member, and more of a member, thanks for introducing the concept.


(This post was last modified: 07-18-2015, 11:13 PM by Linkzelda.)
07-18-2015, 10:51 PM
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sushi Offline
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#6
 
RE: The child philosophy

So where would this go, GAT? Articles?

This is something that I wish more people would keep in mind. Lots of the newbie questions that pop up can be answered pretty easily just by replacing the word "tulpa" with the word "child".

It's easy! Give it a shot:
  • Do I need to decide on my child's personality before I make her?
  • My child isn't exactly the way I intended her to be. Is this normal?
  • Will my child's personality change over time?
  • My child is one week old. Can I have sex with her now?
  • Should I make my child with a failsafe self-destruct switch just in case she turns evil and tries to kill me?

"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
07-20-2015, 07:16 AM
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Cjero Away
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#7
 
RE: The child philosophy

I will improve this post and make it far more elaborate but for now I am taking a short break!

You'll regret it. I'm telling you. Unless you just want to role-play, then go ahead.
07-20-2015, 10:37 AM
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Sock Offline
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#8
 
RE: The child philosophy

Since I was asked to weigh in on this subject, I've written the below notes on my own methods and acts concerning a parent/child mindfolk relationship:

-Acknowledgment that, while the creation has access to the memories of their maker, they do not have the experience of said events, and thus are missing a large facet of it.

-This is not to say that a creation will not have anything insightful to say, or anything useful on the subject. Only that if they go through a similar event, they may well be more shocked at it.

-The view that the creation needs to be taught things by the host directly, and that they will not always gain things by osmosis.

-I take an authoritative position over my companions...and its actually pretty tough to make this change in thought process. I never thought of myself as an authority figure, nor did I feel I was worthy of such. But, thanks to certain life events, I have taken the role in my system, but this does not mean I treat my companions as slaves, or as things to be downtrodden and used. Having good intentions and a sincere care for my residents is ESSENTIAL to my methods, and if I lacked that, I would be in a big bind.

-STANDARDS OF BEHAVIOR. This is a facet I am usually quiet and shy about mentioning, but this one is actually a pretty big factor of my own methods and lifestyle. I have a certain standard of behavior that I set for myself, and my interactions with my folks reflect this. As well, there are certain behaviors that I encourage my folks to run after freely, and certain behaviors I encourage them to avoid. Most hosts I see seem to give their companion near free reign on behavior with the (occasional) exception of outright malicious action toward the host, and this is something I reject.

-Relationship boundaries: Another thing I'm sometimes wary to mention, as most seem to have very few boundaries in their relationships with their creations. There are some things that I won't do with my companions, and some things I won't allow my companions to do with me. This does not mean that I deny them affection or anything, that is not the case, but I do draw a line at where we go, and how much we do.

-Kindness, gentleness: In a phrase, I handle my companions like fine china. I'm very soft and kind with them, I'm hardly ever coarse, unless it is absolutely necessary. Which brings me to the next thing...

-Discipline: This is something that I am still working out, and am still exploring. But if I notice an act or behavior that falls below standard, I will reprove my residents, if gently. If a light thing, I'll usually just ask for them to ease off. But, if I feel it is something major, I will show them the possible consequences of their action, and who they hurt and how. As I have a larger than normal system, I have to ensure that stability is kept, and that they live in harmony, which is fortunately something that seems achievable.

-Fairness: When you set a standard of behavior, make sure it is something you either strive to, or are able to achieve. My own girls will tell you that I do not demand they be able to reach a standard that I do not work daily to get to. I don't ask them to respect a boundary that I myself do not respect. I do not ask them not to get upset with someone when I am freely raging with no restraint.

-Just because I treat my companions as my children, does not mean I demean their ability, nor their insights. I don't patronize them, nor to I brush them aside when they have something to say. When they have complaints, I hear them out and act on them, and if they have requests, I do my best to fulfill them. I do not look down on them.

-In fact, my residents tend to be privy to aspects and attitudes deep within me that I am not aware of, or am too clouded in thought to know of. They can see things I can't, are able to notice things I don't, and have access to things I don't know are even there. I respect this ability in them.

Love is mandatory.
Love is mandatory.
Love is mandatory.

My purpose with this viewpoint is, to the best of my ability, create a mental environment that is peaceful, happy, and given to the growth and betterment of myself and them. My methods are still in flux, as I am still learning things, and I feel that things may be added as time goes by, and some things may be removed. I often find myself looking outside of the tulpa community for tips and tricks concerning how to foster more peaceful and hardier behavior, as well as things my residents can do for me. Its an ongoing process of trial and error for me, but I feel the result of a long-lasting and harmonious system will be worth it.

This is only one of the aspects of my overall method, as I do not focus on the basic act of creation in the above. Rather, I assume the companion is already able to communicate, and speak as if communication comes somewhat easily. I may go in to that later, though I don't plan to out right make a guide.

Peace.
07-20-2015, 03:46 PM
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Yakumo Offline
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#9
 
RE: The child philosophy

^This
I did treat my tulpa as a child in the first months and it has been a great and rewarding experience for both of us. She grew out of it way too fast and now only occasionally returns to a child-like state for fun.
Sigh...

With only a single tulpa-child that grew up really fast it surely was a lot easier for me than for Sock permanently having to care for all his mindfolk but I still gained a lot of insight from reading about his experiences. Taking them into account I believe that young tulpas do bear some analogy to young children and may be treated accordingly. This surely depends on the mindset of the host and might not be practicable in all cases but generally I think it is a very useful concept.

(07-20-2015, 03:46 PM)Sock Wrote: -Just because I treat my companions as my children, does not mean I demean their ability, nor their insights. I don't patronize them, nor to I brush them aside when they have something to say. When they have complaints, I hear them out and act on them, and if they have requests, I do my best to fulfill them. I do not look down on them.
What more is there to say? You, Sir, are a great parent!

(07-20-2015, 07:16 AM)sushi Wrote:
  • Do I need to decide on my child's personality before I make her?
  • My child isn't exactly the way I intended her to be. Is this normal?
  • Will my child's personality change over time?
  • My child is one week old. Can I have sex with her now?
  • Should I make my child with a failsafe self-destruct switch just in case she turns evil and tries to kill me?
lol
You should publish this as a series of advice books and make millions with it!
07-20-2015, 11:31 PM
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Luminesce Offline
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#10
 
RE: The child philosophy

Oo, you rewrote the post. I like it. There's less emphasis on the "replace the word tulpa with child" mentality, but Sushi pretty much gave the perfect example of that himself. But it seems like a much more thorough and thought out philosophy now, and it should be detailed enough to spur readers to think out the rest themselves, however may be relevant to them.

(07-17-2015, 09:59 AM)Cjero Wrote: What many tulpamancers seem to do is usually sit behind their computers doing little with their young tulpas; show them the world! Having them learn from memories is the same as comparing sightseeing when actually present to simply viewing an image so take the liberty to allow your tulpa to explore the outside world because what may seem redundant to you might be exhilarating for them.

This is my favorite part. My original tulpas were spontaneous, and mostly saw the inside of my room. A few years later when I created Lucilyn, I realized that she really did enjoy experiencing new things and places. I'd always assumed "Yeah, you know my memories, I've seen it all before" for my previous tulpas, and they didn't complain much. Pretty calm and simple, them. But Lucilyn was a bit more excitable, and she really enjoyed looking around our environment while possessing.

A tulpa's wonder at seeing the world firsthand for the first time is.. refreshing, is the only way I can put it. They really remind you how great everything around you is, and their sense of awe at the simplest of things is just great. So I fullheartedly agree. Show your tulpas the world, because memories are very boring in comparison to the real thing. You might even learn a thing or two from them, on how amazing the world really is. We tend to forget, as we grow up.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
07-21-2015, 07:31 AM
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