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Killing (Murdering) a Tulpa (Rage Warning)


Guest Anonymous

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Guest Anonymous

I just read through the "Is it wrong to kill a tulpa?" thread, and let's just say things posted by some people upset me and unnerved the shit out of Rina, just making me more upset in the process.

 

My viewpoint on this is simple.

I think there's something inherently wrong to it.

 

Why?

Well, I know a tulpa doesn't have a physical body. It doesn't have any actual, physical presence in the real world, but it's still a living being in that it's sentient, right?

 

You can, for example, easily make the philosophically, ethically and scientifically absolutely valid argument that "sentient life" could mean something completely different to other alien lifeforms on some other planet.

Who knows if all sentient life in the universe even has a body?

 

That's my point here: Just because something doesn't have a body, that doesn't mean it has any less right to live. Who are we humans to judge beings we deem "lesser" in the first place? Or, rather, who are we to deem them "lesser" to begin with?

 

And let's also get this straight, one of the things all the guides really try to get into your brain: You made that tulpa.

There's some responsibility there when you create an actual conscious and autonomous mind, a "living" being. Would you give your baby away if you came to get bored or sick of it? I know, that's different, but you get what I mean!

 

That's why these guides tell you that making such a decision without thinking it over carefully is a bad thing. It's not a decision you wanna regret, ever.

 

And if someone tries to argue against me on the basis that I haven't been here for long, then NO, I'll shut you down. (Sorry, like I said, sorta upset here.)

This has nothing to do with someone having days or weeks or months or years of experience with tulpas. This is about a fundamental philosophical chain of questions.

 

1) Is a tulpa truly a sentient consciousness?

- My answer is yes. At least I can say Esterina is, but I heard many tulpas are never truly sentient, or at least not in the beginning.

I'm a person who listens to his head, not his heart or guts, but there's no way I could imagine all the "proof" for her existence to have come from myself. That's just ridiculous.

 

2) Is a sentient mind without its own physical representation in the real world still life, and has the right to live?

- My answer, as should be clear, is yes here. Of course this is something that can be disagreed on, but I firmly believe that, yes, life like that has any right to live that we humans and animals with physical bodies have as well.

 

3) Is it okay to kill, or erase, a tulpa? End its life / existence?

- My answer to this is a clear "no, unless it wants you to". And if the previous two questions got a "yes" from you as well, then the answer should be clear here: No, it's not alright.

How COULD your answer to 3) be "yes" if the answers to 1) and 2) are "yes"? How?

 

Also - I know, she's an "unusual" tulpa, came to be through "unusual" circumstances, I get all that, but I still think her input on this has some general weight here.

Hell, it might have weight exactly because of that, because it might be a viewpoint that's not usual for "her kind". (We can't judge that, not having talked much to many other tulpas yet.)

 

So I got Esterina to agree to putting in her two cents, even though she seems uncomfortable about the subject matter. ^^

 

The idea of dying is unnerving to me. As Felix and I read through that thread, there were points when I felt just plain uncomfortable. All I can say is that I definitely don't want to die or disappear.

 

So, yeah.

That's my ranting done,

and Rina's two cents done.

 

Sorry if I sounded a little bit "rage-y", but I think a lot about such philosophical and psychological matters, and the idea of taking a life without a clear request to do so (like from a terminally ill person in pain) just... it really disgusts me.

 

But still, I wanna say: No offense to anyone here, and sorry if I came off quite rough.

I know this is an at the very least partially viewpoint-based and very philosophical and ethical matter, so I can at least accept that there's people who disagree or simply see things differently than I do. There's enough people who don't even think tulpas are sentient or alive in the first place, for that matter. ^^

 

Doesn't make things better when I get waves of "this shit is freaking unnerving" from Rina here either... so, again, sorry if I was a bit... blerch. ^^

 

 

Greets,

AG & Rina

 

 

The thread in question:

https://community.tulpa.info/thread-is-it-wrong-to-kill-a-tulpa

 

 

PS: I typed this down as a reply to the thread in question, and only copied it over and then Rina and I edited some grammar and added the bit at the top.

So I'm not as upset anymore as I was initially.

 

I'm not that unnerved by it anymore either. I wasn't actually angry to begin with. He was.

 

Not "was". I still am. Just less than before. ^^

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I want you to consider something: What would you do if Esterina was a really malicious being (without you wanting that of course)? If she would try everything to make your life hell? Terrorizing you while asleep and while awake?

 

Unlike a human being you can't lock it away, or to be more exact locking it away would pretty much turn out as a kill (like you give a prisoner no food and water). I generally agree with your post, BUT of course there are exceptions on that matter. You can't keep a monster that keeps destroying you in your head, just because it has a right to live.

 

Beside that I agree.

Tulpa: Alice

Form: Realistic Humanoid/Demonic Creation

She may or may not talk here, depends on her.

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Guest Anonymous

Let's not use the word kill here. Say it for what it is: murder.

 

Y'know what? Added.


I want you to consider something: What would you do if Esterina was a really malicious being (without you wanting that of course)? If she would try everything to make your life hell? Terrorizing you while asleep and while awake?

 

Unlike a human being you can't lock it away, or to be more exact locking it away would pretty much turn out as a kill (like you give a prisoner no food and water). I generally agree with your post, BUT of course there are exceptions on that matter. You can't keep a monster that keeps destroying you in your head, just because it has a right to live.

 

Beside that I agree.

 

That's something entirely different then.

The first thing to do would be doing everything in your power to ignore such a horrible being.

And if that doesn't work, then yes, there would be cases where I'd say that being has to die to save yourself.

There ARE points where a living being can trade off its right to live by trying to destroy the life of another. Simple as that.

 

Though I can't even follow the thought process of such a person. But I think I agree.

 

 

Greets,

AG & Rina

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Guest Anonymous

I think murder is a bit of a strong term. I have known at least one person, who let his tulpa fade away and ended them for reasons he felt were very personally important. Others perhaps do so because they stop believing in tulpamancy or lose interest. I think I would hesitate to label such individuals murderers. In time, they may return to tulpamancy. I am not in a position to cast judgement on someone when it comes to their own mental well being or what they do with their own mind. If you say that killing a tulpa is murder, there must be a murderer and that gets us into some frightening territory.

 

Killing a tulpa may be unethical to most of the membership of this forum, but it does not rise to the level of murder as in equal to murdering another living human being. Let's be careful here with the terminology.

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I think murder is a bit of a strong term. I have known at least one person, who let his tulpa fade away and ended them for reasons he felt were very personally important. Others perhaps do so because they stop believing in tulpamancy or lose interest. I think I would hesitate to label such individuals murderers. In time, they may return to tulpamancy. I am not in a position to cast judgement on someone when it comes to their own mental well being or what they do with their own mind. If you say that killing a tulpa is murder, there must be a murderer and that gets us into some frightening territory.

 

Killing a tulpa may be unethical to most of the membership of this forum, but it does not rise to the level of murder as in equal to murdering another living human being. Let's be careful here with the terminology.

 

A lot of science fiction struggles with a similiar question about A.I. that reached a certain level of sentience. It is a question of morality, which can't be solved easily. Everything sentient has a right to live, we just happen to enter one of the grayzones here.

Tulpa: Alice

Form: Realistic Humanoid/Demonic Creation

She may or may not talk here, depends on her.

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Guest Anonymous

That's how I see it.

It's really that simple of a "logic chain" for me.

"End the life / existence of a sentient being" -> "Murder"

 

Like I said, I accept people disagreeing with me on that, but I'll still call it how I see it.

 

 

Greets,

AG

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Guest Anonymous

There are murderers in this very forum then, because I do believe there a some members who have ended tulpas in the past. Be careful in labeling someone something so drastic is my suggestion. Not everyone believes tulpas are truly sentient beings. About twenty five to thirty percent do not believe they are (based on a tulpa info poll). For such individuals, ending a tulpa is not killing anything and they may actually be right. I have no way to know what is in their brains.

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Guest Anonymous

Yes, and it's my intent to let them know that I don't label them as murderers then.

They didn't do anything they deemed as murder. So calling them murderers feels "off".

Thus, I won't do that.

 

 

Greets,

AG

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There are murderers in this very forum then, because I do believe there a some members who have ended tulpas in the past. Be careful in labeling someone something so drastic is my suggestion. Not everyone believes tulpas are truly sentient beings. About twenty five to thirty percent do not believe they are (based on a tulpa info poll). For such individuals, ending a tulpa is not killing anything and they may actually be right. I have no way to know what is in their brains.

 

You're right, but that doesn't really change anything. As long as you perceive tulpas as real sentient for yourself, you may could label everyone who killed a tulpa as murderer. You're allowed to think that. There is nothing wrong with this at all. Surely you shouldn't brand someone because of it until you have a proof that tulpas are REAL sentient.

Tulpa: Alice

Form: Realistic Humanoid/Demonic Creation

She may or may not talk here, depends on her.

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