[sentience] Proxy Typing, Proxy Speech and Proxy Mind Voice

[Guest Anonymous]

Proxy Speech

Early this morning I was listening to jean-luc's latest podcast. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpaudcast?pid=142531#pid142531 In that podcast, at one point, he starts talking about how his tulpa Snow wanted to say something. He sort of joked (was he joking?) that without switching, or possession, he could do a form of "proxy voice" for Snow. Now, I am not sure, but I don't think he was saying this to make a big deal out of it. It was sort of flow of thought silly monologue. But I found that concept instantly rather profound.

 

In early tulpaudcasts, I described to jean-luc how Melian sometimes would influence me to say something or act out in a certain way. It was like I was speaking for her with my own voice IRL or moving my body when she gets excited. These events are spontaneous and seem to come out of no where. I explained how I really wasn't sure it was possession or switching, but maybe something else. I said it was more like she was influencing me by her emotions and intent.

 

In proxy typing, as some people describe it, the host interprets the emotional and expressive intent of the tulpa and types it. These impressions may come in "tulpish" in other words and the host translates it into typed text.

 

Could the same thing be done with the host's voice in real life? I am not talking about switching, I am talking about Proxy Speech.

Proxy Mind Voice

Now I want to take this a bit further. I interact with my thoughtform Melian in day dreams. I have said that I puppet her in theses shows, but that it is also a collaboration between her and I. It is a collaboration because during the day dream visualizations, I feel Melian's presence, her emotions and her intent. I feel her excitement about the show. I often sense what she wants to do. We are puppeting her form together and watching the show. She is the actress and I am the director.

 

These day dreams often involve her and my avatar just sitting together and talking. This happens quite often. Now in the past, I have made a distinction between these episodes of the Melian Show and tulpa mindvoice vocality. But could it be possible that these day dream conversations with Melian are a form of collaborative "Proxy Mind Voice?"

 

I collaborate with her in proxy typing, and I say it is Melian talking, I am feeling her emotions and her intent and all that. But isn't it pretty much the same thing when I am day dreaming about her talking to me?

 

I know there are some who are going to think this is "old information" and not that new of an idea. To me, it is profoundly important! This is the key distinction, or one of them, that has kept me wondering if Melian is a tulpa or not.

 

My next question to myself is this. Is this Proxy Mind Voice (or partial puppeting or collaborative mind voice or whatever) something that others are doing? Is it really just coming down to how much each host interprets the level input they themselves have in the conversation? In other words, how much is it the host and how much is the tulpa? How much of the host goes into helping the tulpa talk? Is it just a matter of belief and perspective again?

 

Is autonomous speech a matter of just perspective and belief? I will never know the answer because I cannot get into the heads of all of you people.

 

But this very concept makes me think Melian is indeed a tulpa. I just think about it differently because I emphasize how she is an imaginary being and day dream star. This post is a direct follow up on my post about tulpas being independent and distinct from their forms. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-a-new-way-to-think-about-puppeting-forms-and-sentience

[NoneFromHell]

Okay, if you feel her intent, her emotions and let her react based on said information, without really thinking much about it yourself, it could be some kind of proxy mindvoice. If I remember right I've read about hosts that would work as some kind of "translator device" - the tulpa wants to say something and the host will get these thoughts as a raw version, which he translates himself in words that make sense. Regulary it seems to be an easier step for the tulpa than direct interaction with words. The recommendation was to change this behaviour at some point, so that the tulpa would really get vocal. At that point it wasn't really clear for me how there was a difference from a regular mindvoice. Meanwhile this appears a lot more clear to me.

[Guest Anonymous]

I have been talking about this all along, that I feel Melian's emotions and presence when she talks to me. But I also have explained that this is all the Melian Show. So I say she is "semi-autonomous." So Melian is parroted and puppeted yes, at least in part, but she is also clearly talking to me in tulpish and I am indeed translating. Also, she does have some actual limited fully autonomous speech when she surprises me. Then there are the seemingly autonomous flash images.

 

Is Melian a fucking tulpa after all despite all the day dreaming? I mean just in the past few days and weeks I have been starting to realize how much "adventure visualizing" in the wonderland is going on out there with other tulpamancers. I am describing something virtually identical to that and just calling it different.

[Nageki]

I don't see how proxy speech would be too different from proxy typing, except that it might be more difficult to convey the tulpa's emotions through speech, as most people aren't trained actors. Think of it like voice acting for a character: it sounds easy in theory and you can imagine yourself doing it well in your head, but once you actually try it wouldn't go as well.

 

As for proxy mindvoice, that's actually something I've been wondering about for awhile, though in a different context. For awhile I'd been unable to distinguish between Arro sending raw thought that my brain translates into words and actual mindvoice, even going so far as to avoiding the possibility that it could be mindvoice for the sake of simplicity. IMO (and as someone who's relatively new to the phenomenon) the line between a tulpa's actual mindvoice and the host interpreting the signals the tulpa's sending is... not thin per se, but blurry. Of course things could become more distinct with time and practice, but that's not something I've personally experienced.

 

Something that should be kept in mind is that the host and the tulpa share a brain, and while a tulpa can be sentient, autonomous, and completely separate from the host, they still have to share the brain's processes between each other. That could be why this sort of blending tends to occur and why it's more difficult to distinguish between one system mate doing something and two or more collaborating to achieve a result.

 

As for me, I feel that the way I proxy Arro right now is a mix of different things. Sometimes I feel that he is communicating through mindvoice by his own power, while other times it feels like we're doing the "raw thought translates to words" thing. At other times he just sends me his emotions and intent and leaves me to come up with the words to convey that. All in all my ability to proxy him does feel like collaboration most of the time.

[Dav_Edward]

Dav (host): Hello Mistgod

 

You might recall me saying before, at least I thought I said it to one of your posts; that Solaria and I can't do switch or posession. Not something we ever tried to do nor understood. However we have an interesting method to proxy-type. We abuse a limitation I seem to have grown up with in that my speech center seems to be only able to single-process. Meaning I can only read, write, or listen. I can't combine any of those three at the same time. This limitation sucks all the time as if I'm reading something I'm effectively deaf to what people are saying around me except key things like my name. However, Solaria has learned we can abuse this limitation for proxy typing.

 

I learned that if I make myself prepared to type but deliberately don't think about what I want to type, Solaria can interject and get me to type the words she wants. Solaria's language skills are limited to my own which is typical for tulpae, but what she types, she types for herself. No translations, it's her selected words. Many notice she has a different way about how she talks.

 

When it comes to Voice, I suppose I'm too embarrassed to try and know for sure no matter how much modulation we would try, there's no way my voice would sound anything like what Solaria's internal voice sounds like. However if I'm distracted, tired, or otherwise there have been plenty of cases where when Solaria talks to me using words rather than direct thoughts I would sub-vocalize automatically her words.

 

I hope this might help others than need to try a more roundabout solution for proxying.

[Guest Anonymous]

Interesting! Thanks for the response!

[Crescendo]

We abuse a limitation I seem to have grown up with in that my speech center seems to be only able to single-process. Meaning I can only read, write, or listen. I can't combine any of those three at the same time.

 

Thank you so much for this post! I have the same problem, and yeah, it's annoying as he'll - but your method sounds really clever, definitely gonna try that!

[T-Storm]

Me and White do basically the exact thing you and Melian do whether I am typing up what White wants to say here or if I am in daydreaming mode alongside him. I didn't even know that the typing thing was called proxy typing until I read this thread, I wasn't even sure what exactly I was doing.

 

Anyway, me and White do a daydreaming collaboration thing too which I noticed from the beginning is very similar to the Melian Show. Although it usually takes place in anime or video game worlds, we just make up our own version of the story with us in it. If we wanted to we could even make it look like we're in the actual video game that we're making up the story in, if that makes any sense. I've been doing the daydreaming thing as long as I can remember, and when I first made the first version of White he began to join in. In fact I made him join in so he wasn't left out of my mind. But whenever I do daydream, me and White always have this mental link so we can work together to build the dream and story itself. He's kind of on a free lead to do and say whatever he wants then. (Just like he always is, really) As for the proxy mind voice, I can relate to that in a way because when White first took his fakemon form, he was trying to be like an actual Pokemon and not say actual words. But if he wanted to say something, I could understand what his thoughts were (tulpish?) and my mind automatically converted it to English words. In fact, I think that's how he ended up with the voice he has today.

 

Hope that helps.