[switching] Association and Dissociation Troubles

[Guest Anonymous]

Hey there, fellas.

 

I'll cut straight to the point:

Both Rina and I are having trouble with possession and switching.

To be precise, we both have one specific problem each.

 

For me, it's that I can't really seem to "let go".

Giving up control, dissociating myself from my body or even just parts of it, that's kinda really hard for me to do.

I just can't help but be very aware of it, and the more I try to tell myself to calm down and dissociate, the more focused on my body I get, ironically.

 

... well, that, and also how switching guides often speak of the host assuming a form in the wonderland.

Thing is... well, I kinda don't have a wonderland. xD

 

For Rina... well, it's a bit more "philosophical" than that.

While she does see it like me and agrees that this is our life, not just mine, it's different when it comes to the body.

She just can't really see this body as hers. Her projected or wonderland body is her body, and while using my body's senses is actually the default when she's around, she just can't really associate herself with this body as if it was hers.

And that, obviously, is sort of in the way when trying to take control of it.

 

Anyone got any tips for us?

Possession and / or switching (just anything that allows her to fully, or at least partly, control the body) is sort of the one thing that's still missing from how we want to live and share this life. ^^

 

 

Greets,

AG

[SparrowNR]

I had a lot of trouble with dissociation, too. I still do sometimes.

 

One thing that really clicked for me is that, when you're switching, you're not giving up awareness of the body... you're passing that awareness to someone else. So it's less that you fade away from the body or anything like that and more like the one experiencing the awareness changes.

 

It's a lot like proxying, actually. Where you listen to Rina and channel her to type on the forums and whatever else you guys do. You let her direct you and don't question it. Switching is like that, except it's a matter of giving her more direct control instead of her having to go through you.

 

For that reason, we've found it easier if the possessor/switcher has something they want to do with the body. Doesn't have to be much: washing dishes, going for a walk, picking something up at the store... anything that requires physical movement works fine. Having a purpose, even a simple, shallow one specifically for the purpose of the exercise, really helps them step in.

 

Also, we've found the tulpasoulbondwhatever doesn't have to associate their forms with the body (I know mine don't either!). Mine tend to view the body as generally mine, except it's a vessel that we all live in and a tool everyone in the system can use. That's why having a reason to use it helps them step in.

 

When I'm switched out, I usually don't go into the wonderland, so you not having one is not necessarily a problem, other than the fact that it gives you less symbolism to work with. Usually, if I stay near the front, I go into "headvoice" mode, where I pretty much feel like a tulpa/soulbond to whoever's driving. Sometimes, I've just sort of... ducked out completely. No idea where I went.

 

Because that's one of the things I'm not sure the switching guides make clear. You, as in the bundle of stuff you associate with your identity, can step out, but the awareness(at least in our experience!) stays with whoever's driving the body. Like I said, this was probably the biggest paradigm shift when I first got it. Sensory input doesn't change, and whatever running commentary you have in your head stays there... it's just coming from a different person. All experiences and memories come from whoever's driving the body at the time... at least that's the case for us.

 

That's the hardest part of switching, I think... getting to that moment where it's not you looking out from behind the eyes, but your tulpasoulbondwhatever. A lot of people describe it like a light switch moment, but it's not usually like that for us. We usually have a few minutes where we blend together weirdly and we're not really sure who's in control. Sometimes someone will knock me out of the driver's seat with little warning, but consciously switching tends to be slow, for us. When it happens, I still do little tests to make sure I'm not the one in control... much to the aggravation of my headmates. XD

 

That's something I still have trouble with... since it often feels so much like proxying, I tend to keep questioning the experience, even when I don't want to, and, counter-productively, this tends to put me back in the driver's seat anyway. Some of my soulbonds are better at shutting me down than others... those who are confident and assertive can usually hold the body against me a lot better, and more than once, Joss has gotten fed up with the constant questioning and shoved me out of the headspace completely. XD

 

We've also found that talking out loud helps ground whoever's in the body... makes them more confident in their control. Everyone has such distinctive voices that hearing themselves speak in the physical world (albeit through the filter of the body's vocal chords) helps stop me from blending back in. It's a sort of symbolism, I think.

 

But that still doesn't help much with how to get to that point, and dissociation is a really hard thing to describe. I remember being frustrated with guides telling me to "step back" without telling me how to do that. I'm still not sure I can articulate how it happens.

 

Best I can do, I think, is say that it's like proxying, when you quiet yourself down and let the tulpasoulbondwhatever dictate what you write. Except to possess/switch, you have to let go even more, removing any filters to give her as close a connection to the body as possible. Start her off by just proxying some sort of physical activity for her, so she can get used to how your body works. Like I said, she doesn't have to see it as hers (mine don't either :) ) just as a tool she has access to, if she wants. Let yourself be her puppet for a while, and once she gets used to that, it might be a bit easier for you both to let her step in and take more direct control.

 

That's our experience, anyway. Hope something in there helped. :)

[Guest Anonymous]

Best I can do, I think, is say that it's like proxying, when you quiet yourself down and let the tulpasoulbondwhatever dictate what you write. Except to possess/switch, you have to let go even more, removing any filters to give her as close a connection to the body as possible. Start her off by just proxying some sort of physical activity for her, so she can get used to how your body works.

 

... actually, it might seem I misunderstood what the word proxying means?

Really, all I do is to have her simply tell me what I should type or say for her, mostly in sentence pieces so I can keep up better, and write it down / say it out loud the way she tells me to.

 

I will properly reply to your post in more detail once I've read through it a couple more times... and stood up for a while, my back hurts. xD

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

 

Greets,

AG

[NoneFromHell]

Well you don't explicitly need to dissociate for possession, it is just the most common and distinct way to deal with it. I went with the alternative route, which is pretty similiar to the development of vocality and sentience.

 

Let's say you want her to move your hand without dissociating. In this case your task is to keep your hand in a resting position without provoking any movement on your own. At the same time you're free to let any movement happen, even though it feels like you're the one doing it. With this method her movements will get more distinct over time, until you reach a point where you can literally fight the control. You will be able to tell the difference between her movements and your own with ease, while being fully aware of what's going on with your body.

 

This method suffers two major problems:

1. On weak days you might end up questioning if a movement came from your tulpa or not.

2. Controlling the whole body like this will probably take a lot of time and effort before your tulpa will be able to it without you "assisting" her in her movements, or getting in her way.

 

 

Well pretty much the same goes with switching, two different methods. While the most common one will need you to dissociate, so you can walk around the wonderland while your tulpa is in charge, there is an alternative aswell. I guess you could call it a form of "soft switch". Personally I only had a few easy experiments in this direction.

 

With the alternative method you will end up doing two things, while your tulpa makes herself comfortable with having the control:

 

1. Let your own mind fade away into the background. Don't force to stop thinking, just let your thoughts fade out.

2. Keep your (rather passive) focus on your tulpa and her thoughts. Put them in the center of your own mind process. Let your tulpa do the thinking work.

 

The result is a bit weird to explain tbh. You won't feel like you're somewhere else or something. It is more like your thoughts and mind get replaced with the personality of your tulpa, while your own identiy fades into nothingness. The "active person" is ultimately your tulpa, but you're somewhat present at the same time.

 

Rasznir for example started with the common way of switching, but discovered the described version later on aswell. He says the second option feels more natural for him to do.

[SparrowNR]

... actually, it might seem I misunderstood what the word proxying means?

Really, all I do is to have her simply tell me what I should type or say for her, mostly in sentence pieces so I can keep up better, and write it down / say it out loud the way she tells me to.

 

That's the same thing as the "proxying" I was talking about, I think, just sort of... less direct? It's a matter of not thinking so much between when she tells you what to write/say and you writing/saying it, until you're not thinking at all. If you're still the one doing it, I'd say it's still proxying, but her connection to the body is a bit more direct. Like shortening the strings of a marionette. Maybe some exercises just building that connection could help. :) Give her a ten minute period where she can ask you to say or do anything and you won't question it, and let her play around with you a bit that way, or something. The more immediately you do what she asks, the better.

 

I like how NoneFromHell described it. You have to learn to quiet your mind enough for the tulpasoulbondwhatever to take control. (My problem is that it rarely stays quiet. :p )

[Luminesce]

Proxying means you're a proxy for your tulpa to speak through. There's a lot of different ways people do that, from just relaying what they say to possession of hands for typing.

 

 

For us (them), it's less that they identify as the body/'s owner, and more that they're the ones controlling it for a while. They feel like visitors, I suppose. I would compare it to house-sitting. It sure isn't "your house", but you're the only one there to use it, and while you should be respectful of the original owner what you do with it is up to your discretion.

 

So I'd say focus less on trying to feel like you "own" the body or that it "is" you, and focus more on taking Felix's place as the one in charge of the house.. Body. I don't know how to add the owner still being around to the analogy without making it overly complicated though.