Wonderlands: Am I confused, or are you?

[Circa]

Hello everyone, I'm new here, as you can see with this being my first post. This may be a bit of a longer post, so skip to the TL;DR if you don't feel like reading this. I'll start off by saying that I've been interested in tulpae and the creation process for roughly a year or so now. Also I'd like to give some background info on myself as to better help you understand my perspective. I'm a 23 year old guy who has almost always been interested in all facets of the metaphysical and spiritual worlds, whether I was actively researching, practicing, or unknowingly experiencing it. Even so, I always approach things from more of a rationalist point of view, looking to logic to answer many problems. I practice mindfulness and meditation and have also had an interest in lucid dreaming for a few years, as I'm sure some of you do as well considering I've seen one or two names here I've recognized from such other forums. I've decided to post here semi-reluctantly because this community(not this forum specifically, but tulpa in general) doesn't seem to be filled with many people I would consider like-minded to myself. I'm not saying I'm the most mature individual and I don't necessarily have anything against animated ponies, but I feel like anyone reading this must understand what I'm getting at here. Now, I have just begun the creation process of my own tulpa 3 days ago and something that has really thrown me for a loop is how nonchalantly wonderlands are spoken about here in this community. I have read nearly every single guide up and down on this site and many off, and I haven't stumbled across anything that comes across to me as a true understanding of what a wonderland is. Do I know what a wonderland is? In theory, and as it's described in these forums, yes, but to me it seems that every member and anyone who has decided to create a wonderland is throwing themselves into altered states of consciousness at will. The reason i prefaced this statement with all that I did is because I'm 100% sure that not every word written on these forums is a fact and not everyone is going to tell the truth 100% of the time even if that means exaggeration. I'm not the greatest at visualization, but I can consciously create an environment and visualize my tulpa there, but I am left feeling that I am seriously missing something. All the posts I see talk about wonderlands like another world full of surprises and things that are obviously not of their conscious creation. The closest thing I can relate this to, in my knowledge is a lucid dream, but that doesn't seem to be the case. So what am I missing here? I'm not even sure what question to form to make myself understand. Am I lacking the willingness to accept that a wonderland is just simply a hazy daydream? Are all these others speaking of wonderlands simply more imaginative than I am? Is there something more to wonderlands going on on a conscious or sub-conscious level? I feel like I just need wonderlands to be explained to me from a different perspective, with more fitting nomenclature to my understanding. And yes I know that wonderlands are completely optional, but it seems the way they are described if you don't have a wonderland your tulpa is simply drifting in a void? Hope this doesn't come off as condescending or anything, I don't mean to offend anyone and appreciate any type of response I can get.

 

TL;DR Are wonderlands altered states of consciousness? Do others exaggerate their wonderland experiences or make them seem more vivid than they actually are? Without a wonderland, where does that leave your tulpa?

[Doctorfoxwolf]

The brain is a highly complex chemical computer, and like any sophisticated enough computer, it can simulate environments. That's pretty much what a wonderland is.

From what I know, making a tulpa without a wonderland just results in them feeling, hearing, smelling, tasting, and seeing what you see.

[Vampire]

Coming from another 23 year old metaphysical leaning tulpamancer with 3 tulpa, welcome to the forums. Feel free to ask us anything anytime.

 

Wonderland vividness varies by how far immersed into them you are. I myself can peek into mine at any time but I am not immersed. On a good day I can heavily meditate and get immersed in enough to interact with objects and walk around.

 

As for wonderlands having things not of conscious creation, on one hand it's just how it works, and in the other hand you also have the Tulpa changing it once they are capable. If you want to write this up as the subconscious creating what it deems should be there you can.

 

It is essentially an imaginary world that is the same every time unless altered consciously. The experience is subjective so it varies from person to person. I wouldn't say anyone is lying about theirs. Ours personally is decently large but some aren't.

[Circa]

Thanks for the responses, I truly appreciate them. I think my problem with wonderland vividness/immersion is a combination of the facts that my visualization skills are presumably much less than most established tulpamancers and also since I've just begun creating my wonderland, I've just gotten it to the point to where I "peek in" that the world is already established and I can focus much less on the actual conscious creation of it. Hope that makes sense(if it does I think I am understanding more), but after meditating and forcing for about 2 hours I'm feeling much more confident and I think the more I dive in to this experience that is foreign to my brain it will become much more natural, clear, and understandable.

[Arcanis]

For me, Wonderland is something between imagination and lucid dreaming. I start with imagining, that I am there, I am looking around, walking around...and after a time, I forget about reality, I forget about my real body - similar to a dream. But of course, I can call back reality at every time and I can feel or hear everything that happens in real life. I just fade it out if I want.

Maybe you can summarize it with imagination in combination with a neglection of reality.

[Luminesce]

Well, I thought we had a relevant post from a few days ago, but I think it makes less sense than Lucilyn thought it did.

For "imagining"/daydreaming, you immerse yourself in the scenarios, so "you" and tupper-type characters are pretending (or you're pretending) you're actually in that reality, with all its circumstances. Wonderlanding tho is where you're aware you're just imagining, like when we do stuff in our wonderland, it's not a daydream it's just us imagining ourselves elsewhere elsewhen. Though whoever's fronting usually gets immersed enough they forget about the outer environment, it's not like we pretend we "actually" live there or anything. Maybe it's a little hard to explain and you just have to experience it.

 

There's some sort of difference between wonderlanding and visualizing for us. I can visualize a lot of stuff casually, not super detailed (my visualization is poor either way) but fluid and detailed enough. But wonderlanding is harder. Even though we have a static environment that never really changes, it's much harder to get details and make things work fluidly. From what I can tell, that's because we're actually putting our sense of presence in that place. It's not just a visualization or imagining of something, it includes actually feeling like you (and generally your tulpas too) are there. For us. Lots of other people have little difference in their wonderland and their random visualizations, but a lot of people have the same difference as we do. Generally speaking, a wonderland is just a consistent persistent imagined environment that aids in tulpa creation by giving you a sort of "base of operations". It's not necessarily more or less real by default. But for some people it is.

[Hyouga]

I'm a new comer here and not sure about the Wonderland (It shows 404 when I click the link)... however it is intresting to see different idea from someone in the forum. I have only briefly invoved in metaphysics, but I hope the process would go normally and follow the theories I believe. Just wondering how your Tulpas work out base on your knowlege?

[Abvieon]

For me, Wonderland is something between imagination and lucid dreaming. I start with imagining, that I am there, I am  looking around, walking around...and after a time, I forget about reality, I forget about my real body - similar to a dream. But of course, I can call back reality at every time and I can feel or hear everything that happens in real life. I just fade it out if I want.

Maybe you can summarize it with imagination in combination with a neglection of reality.

 

The fact that you are able to easily immerse yourself in wonderland and ignore your physical body's senses should make switching easy for you (If you have a tulpa and want to try it, that is) Most people have significant difficulty with what you can easily do.

[Arcanis]

 

Most people have significant difficulty with what you can easily do.

 

Okay, I was not aware of that as I do that since my childhood. I can recommend so called "dream voyages" - audio books that lead you to some imaginary scenarios. Here, it is even easier for me to let reality go.

[tulpa001]

I'm not saying I'm the most mature individual and I don't necessarily have anything against animated ponies...

Ooh, burn. :p

 

To answer your question, you are confused. For a wonderland is entirely of the mind. And also filled with all those magical things people speak of. (with a few suspect exceptions). It comes from daydreams. The same as lucid dreams come from night dreams.

 

Except in the case of people who believe in paracosms, other worlds we connect to when we dream. (I think that's what they're called). Wonderlands are just daydream constructs powered by our experiences and our internal random number generator.

 

Altered states of consciousness may indeed be involved in visiting a wonderland, same as any other daydream.

 

(It shows 404 when I click the link)

I don't see any link here...