Let's Not Call Tulpas "It"

[Guest]

I'm just an Angry Bear, but I try to be tolerant, amiable and unoffensive when I know better.

[solarchariot]

I think everyone is in agreement, a completed tulpa is sentient, and a particular pro-noun is appropriate when regarding a person. Whether the rest of the world concurs or not, well, we can't police the world, we can only police ourselves, and there is a context in which tulpas, or tulpa, allows for 'it' when viewing it as a comprehensive subject as opposed to a specific individual. I think when used in that context, no one is specifically trying to be offensive, but rather, they're merely trying to communicate this thing that is complicated and outside of the usual context. If you consider, the greater community at large is presently struggling with gender identity on a number of fronts, and can't even agree on what labels are preferential, so much so that some groups are up in arms about a thing that was never meant to be used in a disparaging way, but was simply one way of categorizing based on certain assumptions. We are not are labels. You can call me a jerk without me being offended, because I know I am not that... Well, most the time.

[Venomous]

Yeah, everyone needs to remember that singular they is an actual thing. Each time someone who is offended by "they" and refuses to use it on the basis of "they is plural", I'm genuinely surprised, because singular they has been in use for ages now and has always been the known and accepted way to refer to someone whose gender you don't know. You wouldn't look at someone, unable to discern what gender they are and say "it". You'd say either they, or he.

 

Viper is sentient and doesn't have a gender (was female, decided they didn't want to be associated to genders) and that, imo, doesn't make them an it.

 

Rehashing AB's link, because it shouldn't be hidden. It's legitimately informative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

[YukariTelepath]

Yeah, everyone needs to remember that singular they is an actual thing. Each time someone who is offended by "they" and refuses to use it on the basis of "they is plural", I'm genuinely surprised, because singular they has been in use for ages now and has always been the known and accepted way to refer to someone whose gender you don't know. You wouldn't look at someone, unable to discern what gender they are and say "it". You'd say either they, or he.

 

Viper is sentient and doesn't have a gender (was female, decided they didn't want to be associated to genders) and that, imo, doesn't make them an it.

 

Rehashing AB's link, because it shouldn't be hidden. It's legitimately informative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

 

Yeah, I've been using singular 'they' pronouns for hypothetical people, people whose gender is unknown to me, people who identify as non-binary gender... It took a little getting used to to use it consistently for a particular person (in this case my non-binary tulpa), but it's just that, a matter of practice.

[PALS]

Yeah, everyone needs to remember that singular they is an actual thing. Each time someone who is offended by "they" and refuses to use it on the basis of "they is plural", I'm genuinely surprised, because singular they has been in use for ages now and has always been the known and accepted way to refer to someone whose gender you don't know. You wouldn't look at someone, unable to discern what gender they are and say "it". You'd say either they, or he.

 

Viper is sentient and doesn't have a gender (was female, decided they didn't want to be associated to genders) and that, imo, doesn't make them an it.

 

Rehashing AB's link, because it shouldn't be hidden. It's legitimately informative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

 

Seconded. We have two nonbinary members who use they/them, seeing people use "it" is downright insulting to us. Even if the hypothetical tulpa doesn't exist yet, you're still talking about a hypothetical human being. It dehumanizes them, and in our opinion just makes it look like you don't consider them actual people. It's not that hard to get used to a singular "they", unless straight up don't have the right mindset for it.

[Guest]

I have non-tulpa, and non-people thoughtforms as well, and i still don't want them called 'it'.

[Aurora]

I understand where this discussion is coming from and as a tulpa I thank you for wanting to make sure we're treated well (:

 

However I'd like to remind you that labelling certain words as offensive while other acceptable is a slippery slope. If someone pointed at me and said, "it's a tulpa", I'd say, "yeap that's me!". There is no reason to get offended. Individual words don't really matter - it's the intentions that matter. In some context I can even have a positive reaction if someone called me slurs or degrading words, it all depends on the situation.

 

Sometimes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It starts with innocent discussions such as this one, and sometimes it ends with silly, totalitarian "hate speech" laws and group shaming people who don't use appropriate language. I much prefer people call me "it" rather than people tiptoeing and trying their best not to be offensive. It's ok, just be yourself.

 

We, as a community, don't need to agree what pronouns are preferential, because we're not a groupthink. We're just a collection of interesting, unique individuals, all with different preferences. Heck, there might even be some tulpas that prefer "it" over "they".

[Breloomancer]

"slippery slope" is a logical falicy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

 

Also, though appreciate your thick skin, just because you are not offended by something doesn't mean that others won't be. Of course context is important, but that doesn't change that some things are polite and others aren't. If somebody who I had never talked to before called me "it" then I would be offended, and if someone called my tulpa "it" then she would be offended.

 

Some people might prefer "it" over "they" however since most people aren't like that it is more polite to just say "they" before learning what they would rather be called

[Venomous]

I understand where this discussion is coming from and as a tulpa I thank you for wanting to make sure we're treated well (:

 

However I'd like to remind you that labelling certain words as offensive while other acceptable is a slippery slope. If someone pointed at me and said, "it's a tulpa", I'd say, "yeap that's me!". There is no reason to get offended. Individual words don't really matter - it's the intentions that matter. In some context I can even have a positive reaction if someone called me slurs or degrading words, it all depends on the situation.

 

Sometimes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It starts with innocent discussions such as this one, and sometimes it ends with silly, totalitarian "hate speech" laws and group shaming people who don't use appropriate language. I much prefer people call me "it" rather than people tiptoeing and trying their best not to be offensive. It's ok, just be yourself.

 

We, as a community, don't need to agree what pronouns are preferential, because we're not a groupthink. We're just a collection of interesting, unique individuals, all with different preferences. Heck, there might even be some tulpas that prefer "it" over "they".

 

We actually agree with this. We're not really offended by 'it', or 'he' or 'she', if that's what the one we're speaking with is most comfortable with. It's Venny who gets more upset with it than we ever would and although that type of emotion tends to bleed through, we don't feel that way. It's just a word after all, most often not used with malicious intents, but rather out of innocent ignorance. There's nothing offending in that.

[Guest Reilyn-Alley]

Huh. I see your point, Aurora. I never actually thought of it like that. I guess when I see a topic like "don't call tulpas 'it'", I go into it with a preconceived notion and a bit of indignity at the thought, like I'd already been called an object. Trying to think objectively, having someone refer to me as "it" also tells me something about their way of thinking or their own assumptions which is a gain in knowledge and an interesting place to start a conversation instead of the typical social games where people just lie to each others faces.

 

That being said, I think I would quickly loose objectivity if I thought it was I was being intentionally objectified or insulted but you are right, it's probably best to not just assume that from the beginning. There are an awful lot of people nowadays that are offended and imagine outrage at every little thing. Interesting to consider..