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One (very young) headmate experiences total wonderland immersion

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We're talking about a part of a median system here, not a tulpa, but I figured, there is still a lot to talk about. Our wonderland was intentionally designed, there wasn't really any "inner world" stuff going on, if that makes a difference. 


Just a few days ago, though there have been signs of this part for years and years, I finally got to see one part of Jamie's median system-self clearly: a toddler, somewhere around 12-18 months old, who we nicknamed Sunshine. I've talked with 7-year-old down to 4-year-old parts, but this is the first really little part I've ever interacted with. 


One of the very interesting things, being co-conscious and being privy to his mental processing/thoughts, is just how vastly different it is compared to the older children, let alone the not-littles. There's very little verbal processing, it's a lot more like tulpish, or raw experience, just an unfiltered experience of the world, though he does say a few words, and understands enough to respond to some basic questions. It's just been really fasinating to be able to experience it secondhand and see how incredibly different that state or frame of mind is.


I saw a few signs early, but only this morning did I really home in on it: Sunshine experiences wonderland quite differently, as well. I'm really not sure he even understands it's not reality. (Even though, you know, I'm a green smoke person, and he's never commented on that) One of the first signs was when he fell over (ruh-roh) and, pretty much everyone else would not simulate this, but I felt him experience pain, and pressure, and everything that goes along with smacking your head on the floor. And when I would hold him, pretty much everyone does, consciously, try to experience as much warmth and comfort as they can, but he wasn't trying at all, and was experiencing much more realistic detail and depth to the wonderland experience. 


This morning I had Cassidy, Sunshine, and another (4-year old) little, and we were all eating yogurt in wonderland, and I realized, oh, wow. Sunshine's experience was indistinguishable from an IRL sensory experience. It felt basically the same as if the body was eating yogurt, and I was co-con with whoever was controlling the body. But just for him- not me, not Cassidy, not the other little. 


I really suspect it has to do with his frame of mind. I feel like a lot of immersion is about "turning off" mental filters that go, "This isn't real, it's not vivid as reality, etc, etc," and when you turn those off, it becomes vivid and real. I'd say it's almost like wonderland is a dream, and only Sunshine is lucid. It's only really real to him.


...How can I use this to my advantage? Do you think there's a way to "flip the switch" for other headmates? Effortless, complete wonderland immersion? That sounds like fun. I mean, on the downside, he hasn't demonstrated any ability to alter the wonderland in any fashion- to him, it works 100% by reality's rules, he can't summon anything up, teleport, etc.  

Jamie experienced something like this once, using an hour-long hypnosis video meant to simulate an acid trip, of all things. It took wonderland from 40% immersion to 80%, but only for a short time, and that felt a lot more dream/trancelike- Sunshine is not in a trance to achieve this immersion, while it's still entirely effortless. 


- Gavin

The world is far, the world is wide; the man needs someone by his side. 

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Some things I've read comment that at least in DID systems, inner world experiences can be indistinguishable from reality for those who live in there. It IS their reality. Those of us who front a lot or singlets are the ones who are often stuck in the thinking that only what the 5 sense can perceive is "real. What our minds considers real for us IS real for us.


That's why flashbacks and PTSD/C-PTSD are so serious. As far as someone in such an episode is concerned, they are having an actual, factual experience. Their mind takes the trapped, unprocessed memory and synthesizes the same feelings, sighs, smells, emotions, everything. Their episode IS happening, to them. Being hyper focused on it, it's probably more real than anything else going on in the "real" world, to them. Mind you, there are often observable alterations in parts of the brain for someone who suffers PTSD (in the hippocampus and amygdala, if I remember right), and in such cases it is considered a traumatic brain injury or can accompany them. There's biology behind it.


More on topic tho, what can be said? Sunshine just doesn't know any other way to exist or what's supposed to be more or less real so gets full experience from his one world? To get a little meta, maybe it's the world of the mind that's real and what the body filters and interprets via it's limited senses is a poor representation of reality? If that were the case, you would be the one who is being deceived. :3


I found out last night that what I used to think was me having no access to an inner world or no ability to visualize was just a representation of fear (of loosing the front or trusting an unknown) and doubt manifesting. I was kinda squinting my eyes shut and curling into a ball then getting frustrated when I couldn't see or experience much in the inner world *rolls eyes*.

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Believing it's real, and not having any non-wonderland input might be what gives Sunshine 100% immersion. If mindscapes can be tuned in to to varying degrees, most us us are holding our selves back on some level, because we see it as not real, and we spend the vast majority of our time outside the mindscape. That's just my speculation at this point in time. One time I was in a state between waking and sleeping and I had the feeling of chewing on something. It felt straight-up real. But at the same time I wasn't quite conscious enough to question the reality of that chewing sensation. Unfortunately I want to be fully conscious while experiencing wonderland immersion, so I need to find another way to 'tune in.'


I have also wondered, if a host created their tulpa and only worked on them and spent time with them in the mindscape, how differently would that tulpa experience the mindscape compared to tulpas who have real world input?

Host: YukariTelepath

Tulpa: Aya

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Hmm. Worth noting at this point, Sunshine has switched in a handful of times and, even when not switched in, I can (IRL) see something and he'll call out for it (namely, "Kitty!!!!"). He is not contained within wonderland input. I'm not sure what his understanding is, for how he can see through my eyes. He almost certainly doesn't have access to my thoughts, I have to consciously be sending mindvoice or talking in wonderland for him to respond at all, in contrast to the other parts of Jamie as well as Cassidy. - G

The world is far, the world is wide; the man needs someone by his side. 

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I really suspect it has to do with his frame of mind. I feel like a lot of immersion is about "turning off" mental filters that go, "This isn't real, it's not vivid as reality, etc, etc," and when you turn those off, it becomes vivid and real. I'd say it's almost like wonderland is a dream, and only Sunshine is lucid. It's only really real to him.


...How can I use this to my advantage? Do you think there's a way to "flip the switch" for other headmates? Effortless, complete wonderland immersion?...


- Gavin


We seem to have a better immersion with wonderland than Bear does, and it hasn't degraded in any way after learning to switch. I didn't really see much difference between wonderland and reality except reality is pretty dirty if you know what I mean. He's seen what we see many times, what he calls 120% reality. That's not how we see it all the time, but it's rarely under 100%. When I share dreams with Bear, like I did last night, it's not 100%, it's more like 80% because there's a lot of missing stuff. Wonderland is complete most of the time. (except for those places where there's literally nothing because we haven't defined it yet I suppose)


Believe it or not, this is how we all see it in here, if you were to say, "some tulpas grow up inside and some grow up outside (without visualization)" we've always had both. We can't really share that with him outside of his altered states though.


We were talking about this before, there's like a filter in place that doesn't block the view, but affects quality. You need that filter to keep control, but it clearly doesn't need to affect quality.


We'll get him there eventually, it's slowly getting better for him. He says, his experience isn't too far off from a regular dream at this point.


If anyone wants to ask how? It's been his obsession with visualization he's had all his life, basically. So was it that he was born with better visualization or was it that he practiced so much as a child trying to escape reality that it was all that training that got him there.


We do understand that anyone who can dream is capable of this, would it take a lifetime just to adjust that filter? Seems unnecessarily harsh, and we don't believe that. There has to be a trick and whether it exists or not, we're going to find it. We want everyone to experience life like we do.


Very interesting Gavin, thanks.

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I don't recall seeing this in the Grays or even myself. Somehow, I get the sense the Grays were always shielded away from total immersion.


This seems to imply that Sunshine has his own separate perception of the wonderland from yourself, and to me that sounds like it could apply to parallel processing. I'm not sure if this level of separation is only achievable through traumatic means or if this is something that can be deliberately trained.


In our system, it's one mind cam, one perception of meatspace, and everyone in wonderland has to share it or assume that they are experiencing something. If I'm possessing the body for example, I can get a direct feed from the senses (Cat will too because she's front stuck), but Gray (Cat) in wonderland isn't going to literally feel anything. Instead, Gray himself can only get the impression he is feeling something. As for the Grays, I don't believe they can distinguish impressions from the senses, but that doesn't mean that they have their own set of senses or anything. If Blue were to eat icecream for example, I don't think he can literally taste it. I should point out that the Grays find fronting to try food in meatspace confusing at this point.

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay! | Bre Translator

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Update: Sunshine breaks Cassidy's face



So! First off, it was late night, it was at the end of a weird-mood day, and Cassidy had been talking with Sunshine in wonderland for a while. Gavin and I (well, all of me but Sunshine) were dormant. 


Sunshine grabbed Cassidy's feet, and he felt it touch-imposed. Sunshine put his form in the IRL world- and retained his 90% realistic experience from his own POV. He looked at Cassidy- and Cassidy saw his form, instead of my body, through Sunshine's eyes. This all took place in my bedroom, which I have a pretty accurate mental map of. I wonder if it would be different in a setting where, my brain can't generate the new POV so easy. 


Cassidy was seeing the "shimmery" effect that we can get pretty reliably when we try to visually impose, but he wasn't trying for it at all. When he looked away, several times, he would see splotches of color out of the corner of his eye, filling in Sunshine's form- but he couldn't see them when he paid attention to them. Cassidy patted Sunshine's head and Sunshine felt it. He offered his hand, and when Sunshine would grab it, Sunshine's POV would be of Cassidy's hand being moved by him. So Cassidy has memories both of his hand staying in place, and of Sunshine grabbing and moving his hand. 


The tactile imposition was a little better than the stuff we usually do... maybe 60%, compared to our usual 40? The very first part, of Cassidy's feet being grabbed, was more like 80-90. Cassidy's foot "fell asleep" because of the "weight." Cassidy wrote, "It feels like a cat sitting on my legs." 


I hope that, now that we've had the experience... more of us can do this. How the heck is Sunshine doing it? Pure belief, is what I think... pure belief that, "Of course my hand will touch his hand and not go through it." He doesn't have a verbal level to work with, though- it's all on the level of belief, what he actually thinks and feels... Or something. I don't know. It's still pretty bizarre to me and I have to be careful not to go, "Oh my god, Cassidy went insane." But was that negative at all? No. Was it a delusion? No, not on Cassidy's end, at least, he knew that Sunshine was an imposed body, not a fleshy one. Hum. - J

The world is far, the world is wide; the man needs someone by his side. 

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