Tulpae and mirror neurons.

[Ricochet90]

While searching for more resources to help with the development of my tulpa I found an interesting pastebin talking about the possibility of tulpas being the result of a highly "trained" mirror network.

 

Here is the pastebin:http://pastebin.com/Xu4kDrfa

 

This is important because according to what it says it could be necessary to change the definition of tulpa,instead of being "another conscioussnes within the mind of the host" it could be more like "a imitation of the host's mind" or "the conscious result of the stimulation of the mirror neurons resulting in the mind thinking that there's another living being in the host's brain".

 

While I'm sure that some of you must know about this pastebin I still want to know your opinions.

 

What do you think about this theory?

 

(oh and sorry if this is not the right place to talk about these things)

[Fintan]

First of all, if you want to be really scientific about it, what you have is technically a hypothesis, not a theory. But nit-picky language aside, I'm not so sure. I just looked up "Mirror neuron" on Wikipedia, and looking at the areas of the brain that are claimed to be stimulated, it doesn't seem to be the whole picture. Mirror neurons are said to only talk to the parts of the brain which involve touch and movement, so basically learning new skills involving various types of body movements. That explains very little of what tulpae are capable of. Plus, there's some speculation that issues with mirror neurons may be correlated with autism, but there are autistic tulpamancers out there. Then again, mirror neurons aren't well understood, but there's no point in speculating about mirror neurons existing in other parts of the brain if we have no evidence for them.

[Pleeb]

I talk about something similar in my lecture on tulpas a while ago.

 

I think while the mechanisms could be started by use of mirror neurons, I still think the end-result is closer to a unique and separate consciousness (for the reasons given in my lecture).

[left blank]

Nice!

 

I would wager a guess that the mirror neurons (possibly in tandem with the temporal lobes) are employed as a vehicle for an aspect of the subconscious, which is already experienced as autonomous by the conscious mind.

 

Presumably this is part of the circuit that goes haywire in psychosis as well. Conditioned, induced or accidental, electrochemical boundaries are dissolved, leaving the brain more vulnerable to its cryptic operations.

[Ricochet90]

First of all, if you want to be really scientific about it, what you have is technically a hypothesis, not a theory. But nit-picky language aside, I'm not so sure. I just looked up "Mirror neuron" on Wikipedia, and looking at the areas of the brain that are claimed to be stimulated, it doesn't seem to be the whole picture. Mirror neurons are said to only talk to the parts of the brain which involve touch and movement, so basically learning new skills involving various types of body movements. That explains very little of what tulpae are capable of. Plus, there's some speculation that issues with mirror neurons may be correlated with autism, but there are autistic tulpamancers out there. Then again, mirror neurons aren't well understood, but there's no point in speculating about mirror neurons existing in other parts of the brain if we have no evidence for them.

 

That pastebin is not mine btw (I just found it the other day) but I think that it can be considered a theory because it provides as support things that are well known to be true (like the fact that mirror neurons are like a "simulation camp" for the brain that have a big influence on what we call empathy,that is not a hypothesis,but a fact proven by fMRI studies at least in chimpanzees).

 

The pastebin says that based on empirical evidence on the fact that mirror neurons play a big role in empathy and based on the fact that tulpas and hosts sometimes "share" emotional responses it could be that tulpas themselves are product of a "over-trained" network of mirror neurons (just maybe).

 

If that's true it should be necessary to change our present theory of the mind.

 

I'm not saying that the theory of the pastebin is true,but it seems to make sense with what we know about mirror neurons.

 

It's nice to discuss these things,maybe some day we will be able to analyze the brain of a tulpamancer with a fMRI.

[left blank]

I would argue that it's still a hypothesis, albeit a fair one worth investigating.

 

It's nice to discuss these things,maybe some day we will be able to analyze the brain of a tulpamancer with a fMRI.

 

Well, there's always this.

[Nobillis]

There's the theory of neuron agency http://www.meltingasphalt.com/neurons-gone-wild/ which proposes tulpa as an "agency in the brain ... person-like agent".

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There is also Ryonaloli's lecture on the neural basis for tulpa http://pastebin.com/QVXqpgUH from about 17:14:52 (and lots about neural structure before that).

[Ricochet90]

There is also Ryonaloli's lecture on the neural basis for tulpa http://pastebin.com/QVXqpgUH from about 17:14:52 (and lots about neural structure before that).

 

 

This one is really interesting,but very controversial at the same time.

 

If this is true it means that making a tulpa is essentially another form of Multiple Personality Disorder caused by ourselves and that the memory recall ability of tulpas is just an illusion.

 

I don't know what to think now...

[left blank]

If this is true it means that making a tulpa is essentially another form of Multiple Personality Disorder caused by ourselves and that the memory recall ability of tulpas is just an illusion.

 

I'm still largely in agreement with this perspective. The voluntary (for the most part) 'possession' and 'switching' that I see on here appears to be almost identical in presentation to the involuntary fugue states and alter-shifting of DID, and tulpas themselves seem to be projected alters, or personality components.

 

I'll try to elucidate with a personal anecdote.

 

Even when I first starting dabbling with 'tulpa' meditation in isolation from--and total ignorance of--related internet communities and conjecture (as Nobilis posted above), I intuitively felt that I was inducing the kind of personality fragmentation seen in a few psychiatric disorders.

 

At the time, I knew far more about DID and similar conditions than conjuring sentient phantoms, and I made note of the striking parallels in my progress. There was always the looming fear of maladaptive dependency and a degradation of self awareness. As a result, my tulpa refused to "possess" me, and I agreed that it seemed potentially damaging to do so.

 

Still, the whole affair made me uneasy due to its implications. Ultimately, I tried to put an abrupt stop to the craziness because, despite many changes for the better, I was afraid that I was on the cusp of encouraging unnecessary depersonalization or inducing frank delusion. Instead of concluding as planned, a freak sequence of events took place that caused me to reconsider, so I'm still trying to find a compromise.

 

Now I conduct my tulpa interactions with a carefully moderated, mindful approach. I'm not always successful, but I try to keep my thought-forms confined to meditation sessions and dreams. I use them to learn about myself and assist others, rather than indulging in escapism, altering my persona, or creating a surrogate partner as a coping mechanism.

 

I think what generally separates my current experience from the dissociative disorders is, not only awareness, but discipline and a lack of episodic dissociation ('possessive/switching'). I'm primarily interested in parsing my innate multifariousness for the purpose of self growth, balance, creativity, and, hopefully, science.

 

So, modus operandi may be the key difference. I've seen a few others on here who seem to be taking a similar tack and apparently enjoy positive outcomes. I would bet people who struggle with neural connections, like in the autism spectrum disorders, would benefit greatly from therapies built around tulpa forging. I hope it's implemented someday.

[Nobillis]

If this is true it means that making a tulpa is essentially another form of Multiple Personality Disorder caused by ourselves

 

Pleeb's rant about minds and crap essentially agrees:

 

> I see no difference between a tulpa and an "alter" from a DID-case.

 

Even so, this seems to represent a change in perspective in this site since I first came here a year ago.

 

But to me, the biggest difference is one of choice. Tulpas essentially require two things to become as I see it (my opinion): The choice to have a personality, and the effort in creation. Sometimes, the choice is tacit as in a writer having a long term character that "takes on a life of their own" (there's already enough links to the white paper on this).

 

Myself, I just say "Tulpas are a shamanic practice originating in Tibetan meditation practices and are therefor' exempt under the current definition of DDNOS."