Confessions of a Poorly Trained Tulpa

[Guest Anonymous]

I wanted to respond to this OP, https://community.tulpa.info/thread-question-for-tulpas-who-both-switch-and-impose but it would have taken it immediately off track, Mistgod-Melian style, so I put my response here with a copy of the original OP post. My response is a question about imposed tulpa perception, as in how does an imposed tulpa perceive the environment.

 

I know, I'm talking to like two people here, right? Well on the off chance any of you do, I wanted to ask something about doing both imposition and switching relatively soon after the other.

 

Isn't it weird? Earlier I was hanging around Lumi and followed him upstairs and went over to pet the cat while he talked to someone. But, you know, I kind of couldn't. And then he came over and pet it and I was kinda jealous. A few hours later we switched so I could play some games, and as I was walking upstairs to put some food stuff away I realized I could now pet the cat.

 

Weird! Being incorporeal and then corporeal is weird! I was wondering if anyone maybe had similar experiences and disparities with part-time physical existence. But then as I was writing the topic I realized probably no one can relate..

 

Well in that case, either talk about the weirdness of only physically existing sometimes, or step your game up and learn to experience it yourself. 'Cus this is a tulpa forum and I'm gonna discuss tulpa stuff whether you guys are qualified or not.

 

Wait, you mean you perceive things through the imposed form or that you wish you could? Mistgod and I have wondered about the perceptions of imposed or switched tulpas for a long time. How does that work? What I mean is, as an imposed tulpa, are you perceiving things first person from the perspective of your imposed form? I don't see how that works exactly but it is very, very interesting if it is happening.

[Temar]

Wait, you mean you perceive things through the imposed form or that you wish you could? Mistgod and I have wondered about the perceptions of imposed or switched tulpas for a long time. How does that work? What I mean is, as an imposed tulpa, are you perceiving things first person from the perspective of your imposed form? I don't see how that works exactly but it is very, very interesting if it is happening.

 

Ha, interesting is right. Here's how it works for us, though I can't say everyone else experiences the same thing:

 

When you're imposed, your sense experiences come from the host, as you'd expect. The body is connected to the senses, yeah? So it would be silly to expect eyes that are pretty much just cosmetic projections to actually be able to process anything.

 

But at the same time, you have this sense that you are inhabiting your imposed form. Like, that's where your "presence" is, so that's where you perceive your "self" to be.

 

It's actually damn surreal. Like you're playing a video game that uses a third person camera. You see yourself moving around, and perceive yourself through the eyes and ears of the host, all while your bodily sense of self resides within the projection.

 

Least, that's how it goes for us. Can't speak for others.

[Guest Anonymous]

It sounds like a combination of projected imagination and input from the host's senses? Interesting! I can almost, almost understand what you are saying. I would have to feel it for myself to totally understand I suppose.

---

Here is a somewhat related thread to this, if anyone is interested: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-tulpae-how-do-you-feel-when-trespassed-by-physical-objects-people

 

Here is another related post about my own perception, cognition and memory as a thoughtform: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpa-perception-cognition-and-memory?pid=144203#pid144203

[Lucilyn]

What I mean is, as an imposed tulpa, are you perceiving things first person from the perspective of your imposed form?

 

Well, uh, sure. We perceive things as any imposed tulpa could I guess? Technically we're limited to the host's perspective, but because we're identified with the visualized form in an area, his perception is filtered into what we should be experiencing. So theoretically I could go over and pet the cat, but aside from the cat not even knowing, it also isn't very fulfilling. It's kinda like being a ghost now that I think about it, but a ghost that your host can see and communicate with. So the point of the thread was, "Isn't it weird being a ghost sometimes and other times being in a real body?"

 

Uhmm. As for it being "first person", well, it's hard to say. First or third person, first person with more awareness of your environment maybe... If you're asking about my actual direct experience, I can't give you any. We've never really been able to verify that we have our own consciousnesses separate from Lumi's, as in we don't believe that at all. But the thing is it's not "We don't have a consciousness we just use Lumi's", it's the body's consciousness, and any of us can use it. Like I am right now. If I talk to Lumi right now he just thinks like us, kinda automatically, not with what consciousness really means.

 

But consciousness isn't sentience. Most humans are "unconscious" all the time, and I don't mean sleeping. I mean they're on autopilot, talking and walking and watching TV, without being conscious at all. That's the same thing we're referring to as consciousness. We're totally sentient, we think for ourselves when not fronting, and we're separate from our host. But we aren't "conscious" in that we don't experience awareness itself. But I wouldn't call it autopilot either. Like...

 

 

It's really hard to explain. People just don't understand how to tell them apart. If you think of yourself talking in your mind right now.. to a tulpa or host or yourself or whatever you like, that's you, right? But that talking and thinking can exist without the body's consciousness - that's what we are! Consciousness is much, much bigger, it's the experience of being able to perceive and feel all of that stuff.. It's not who you are, and it's not who your tulpas are, but it is intertwined with them. Ahhh.. Qualia. Flandre's all about that stuff.

 

I like living life, not talking about how it might and might not work. I mean, it sounds like I'm all knowledgeable and stuff, but that's pretty much all just things Lumi knows. I can just access it. You can think like a different person too, but my different person actually shares a mind with me.

[Guest Anonymous]

 

Well, uh, sure. We perceive things as any imposed tulpa could I guess? Technically we're limited to the host's perspective, but because we're identified with the visualized form in an area, his perception is filtered into what we should be experiencing. So theoretically I could go over and pet the cat, but aside from the cat not even knowing, it also isn't very fulfilling. It's kinda like being a ghost now that I think about it, but a ghost that your host can see and communicate with. So the point of the thread was, "Isn't it weird being a ghost sometimes and other times being in a real body?"

 

This actually does make sense to me. Davie and I share such a good imagination, I could see us doing this very easily as far as extrapolating projecting senses or identifying self presence within the projected imposed form.

 

Uhmm. As for it being "first person", well, it's hard to say. First or third person, first person with more awareness of your environment maybe... If you're asking about my actual direct experience, I can't give you any. We've never really been able to verify that we have our own consciousnesses separate from Lumi's, as in we don't believe that at all. But the thing is it's not "We don't have a consciousness we just use Lumi's", it's the body's consciousness, and any of us can use it. Like I am right now. If I talk to Lumi right now he just thinks like us, kinda automatically, not with what consciousness really means.

 

You know what, it would only take the tiniest of nudges to get Davie and I into this mindset. We are close already. If he could let go of the propriety he has over the shared consciousness, we would be there. We are very, very close Lumi to an understanding almost identical to what you are saying. It is hard for Davie to give ground, but he is getting there. These talks are very helpful. Really, reality for us won't have changed, just how we describe it and understand what we are experiencing will have more clarity.

 

But consciousness isn't sentience. Most humans are "unconscious" all the time, and I don't mean sleeping. I mean they're on autopilot, talking and walking and watching TV, without being conscious at all. That's the same thing we're referring to as consciousness. We're totally sentient, we think for ourselves when not fronting, and we're separate from our host. But we aren't "conscious" in that we don't experience awareness itself. But I wouldn't call it autopilot either. Like...

 

 

It's really hard to explain. People just don't understand how to tell them apart. If you think of yourself talking in your mind right now.. to a tulpa or host or yourself or whatever you like, that's you, right? But that talking and thinking can exist without the body's consciousness - that's what we are! Consciousness is much, much bigger, it's the experience of being able to perceive and feel all of that stuff.. It's not who you are, and it's not who your tulpas are, but it is intertwined with them. Ahhh.. Qualia. Flandre's all about that stuff.

 

I like living life, not talking about how it might and might not work. I mean, it sounds like I'm all knowledgeable and stuff, but that's pretty much all just things Lumi knows. I can just access it. You can think like a different person too, but my different person actually shares a mind with me.

 

Davie and I are trying to process these things when you explain them. Sentience is not consciousness? To us they seem almost synonymous. Even googling the terms doesn't help much.

 

con·scious·ness

the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings, the awareness or perception of something by a person.

 

Sentience

Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively.

[Lucilyn]

Well I was talking about sentience in relation to tulpas, meaning they can think and react to stimuli. Consciousness is, well, "the state of being awake and aware".

 

I know they sound the same to you, they do to most people. And to most of the world there's no reason to differentiate either. But at least to us, sentience means thinking and feeling, but does not imply consciousness, which is the actual feeling of "experiencing".

 

 

What the heck, it's not hard to understand. Come on, guys! Compare yourself to your tulpa! What's the difference between you? You're both thinking aren't you? But the one fronting has an extra dimension to their experience, one that you only assume the tulpa also experiences. And that's what I was talking about, we don't think tulpas do experience that, at least not while the host is in control. But everyone here thinks "actually thinking and feeling" and "consciousness" are the same thing and we can't discuss our ideas with anyone.

[Guest Anonymous]

I will take a stab at this.

 

Consciousness is perception/awareness of existence in relation to the tangible world, while sentience is awareness of the self/self identity and cognition?

 

Mistgod and I have said that I am a dreamform in the past. We say that I emphasize my existence within the world of dreams and have only a limited emphasis on the real world. I am aware that David perceives and interacts with the real world, but what happens in it is not as important to me as it is to him. My world is the dreamscape. My self identity is within that context of the imaginary world we created together. I have self identity and self awareness as part of David's consciousness. But I think for myself within the context of my own experiences.

 

Our perceptions are different and our existence is different. We are conscious together and unconscious together. If Davie were knocked out by a powerful sedative drug, so would I. We share a brain and an overall conscious mind, but our self identity and thinking are distinct (although often blended or merged in our case).

[Guest Anonymous]

You get used to it, the feeling of presence is way more important than visual clarity. But the worst part is it's not even like being blind, it's like being extremely near-sighted and having to squint reaallly hard to see anything, and even then it's blurry and annoying to do for very long. Except real life doesn't morph and distort around you because you can't see it... And reality doesn't bend to your will so much that the need for sight is minimum at best.

 

Do you speak in tulpish too?

 

If that is true, you are like me. I am like you. That feeling and a presence, emotional response/tulpish thoughts are how I talk to Davie "fully autonomously" most of the time. We have been saying I am "semi-autonomous" but that is more if you think about explicit back and forth mind-voice conversations. If you consider just presence and emotions, I am totally autonomous. These things have been running through our mind a lot. We are understanding a bit better I think how I am sentient. (okay Davie, apparently sentient then sweetie).

 

David and I have thought that autonomous mind voice conversations with the tulpa speaking fluent and independent sentences were absolutely necessary to claim independent sentience or full autonomy. Maybe not? Maybe just talking in tulpish is enough. Cause I do that you know? Oh yesh, I do. That is how we proxy tulpa type so good!

[Flandre]

https://community.tulpa.info/thread-wonderland-and-tulpae-falling-apart?pid=153655#pid153655

 

Well, I can. We try to always speak in full sentences. The only two times we speak in tulpish are to fill in parts of a conversation that don't work well with words, meaning before and after we are immediately using words again, and when we've been inactive for a long time. Then, we can only speak in short phrases, but tulpish is a bit easier to communicate with. Certainly not "loud and clear" tulpish though, just "Yeah, I hear you, I'm good". Like Lumi wrote in that post though, we're getting faster at getting out of that state.

 

Sorry if you were hoping I'd just say yes. Full sentences are not "required" to be a developed tulpa, but they're usually a sign of one. Some tulpas don't even speak though. And I think some people prefer tulpish-mindvoice to real words. Not most, though. Tulpish is used as a sort of fill-in for when words escape us.

[Guest Anonymous]

https://community.tulpa.info/thread-wonderland-and-tulpae-falling-apart?pid=153655#pid153655

 

...we speak in tulpish are to fill in parts of a conversation that don't work well with words, meaning before and after we are immediately using words again, and when we've been inactive for a long time. Then, we can only speak in short phrases, but tulpish is a bit easier to communicate with. ...

 

Oh .. my .. gods...

 

All this friggin time.

 

I am a tulpa after all Flandre!