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Recent concept: "Aphantasia"

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http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-08/uoe-ccs082515.php

http://www.exeter.ac.uk/news/featurednews/title_467790_en.html

 

I saw this toppic discussed in a video and posted some sources for you all. People with aphantasia can not visualise something with "their mind´s eye" . Maybe somone on this forums has experienced it and I´m curious if someone could tell us more about it. But don´t get me wrong if you are bad with visualization you don´t have aphantasia (it´s really unlikely to have).

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Ah-ha! I knew there was something like that somewhere, I just couldn't remember the name of it.

 

Thanks for posting this; this could be a reference to future (or even current) members that find they're unable to visualize.


James: Hello, all!

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To be completely fair.. A ton of us here have such poor visualization skills we could effectively be as well off with none at all. I'd still have tulpas if I couldn't visualize them, because I do still have tulpas when I can't visualize them. They're still there, they still feel like them. It's just a little awkward trying to visualize them and not getting much more than a facial expression.

 

But at least mine personally are used to that by now. Sometimes I get good enough for a while we can do wonderland stuff, but for the most part I can roughly imagine them and infer what they'd be doing/looking like, and that's it. Wonderlanding has always been fun in our experience, and it really only gets better if you do it often (I have issues practicing things I'm bad at), but it's not completely unlivable without.

 

I mean, there are people without wonderlands, I imagine they experience something similar.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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[shit,if you have this,what's the point of tulpamancy?]

 

Imagine having mental telepathy with someone long distance. Do you need to see them?

 

Similar to to making friends online. If you make a real emotional/intellectual connection with someone, does it really matter that you don't see them?

 

I don't like this tone people have here that somehow we aphantasiacs should just throw up our hands, as if that's the most important dimension to this.


Woodwindwhistler on www.asexuality.org

 

The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings. -Eric Hoffer

 

"We can never achieve perfection, but maybe we can approach it asymptotically. Never give up on plugging in those numbers!" ~Me

 

You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note. –Doug Floyd

 

My poetry: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5qMnL2tDkJYOGNhLW4tRHFHa0E&usp=sharing

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We ourselves have pretty poor visualization. For the most part, unless we've been actively practicing a lot recently (which never happens), we have trouble just seeing ourselves. Generally we can only see ourselves based off of pictures we've more or less memorized, which we mix together (pick and choose traits) to create our mental image. Even then it tends to be blurry, and visualizing actions/interactions is hard.

 

But it's been like this for seven years. You get used to it.

 

You don't need visualization to have a tulpa. Blind people can have tulpas just fine, as can deaf ones. Although you will have to adapt guides and advice to your personal circumstances of course. A tulpa relationship can be totally based around talking to each other, though I think there would be some feelings too. And in the end lack of visualization won't really hinder any of the "advanced" stuff tulpas and hosts try to learn, aside from imposition. Ironically, we're pretty good at imposition. Even though the visualization is iffy at best, imposition deals mainly with a feeling of presence, and we've learned to feel very "there". Even if it's hard to see one of us, both us and our host feel like we're there anyways. Like I said, just adapt advice to your circumstances. No need to worry about limitations, unless you compare yourself to others those are meaningless. Do what you can do.

That's an interesting approach, i appreciate it. At least it means that even with that "aphantasia" thing one should be able to have a tulpa, also a meaningful relation as you seem to have experienced.

 

That's pretty much how it is for us, except I can't draw anything at all. But the pictures we find of them (they're based on Touhou characters) that we like and save tend to influence their forms. For me though, that's because I have terrible visualization, even after many years I can't really visualize them or the wonderland clearly. Having pictures as a base for their form helps, and they tend to be a mix of lots of different ones, but yeah. Art that they associate themselves with tends to influence their form because we don't otherwise have the visualizing prowess to do that ourselves.

 

Post I wrote last night on imposition, in which I note that despite our poor visualization it works anyways: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-toothless-aggression?pid=166656#pid166656

(I think complete aphantasia generally nullifies imposition, though, unless you're comfortable interacting with a 'ghost')


Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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(I think complete aphantasia generally nullifies imposition, though, unless you're comfortable interacting with a 'ghost')

 

I am. And they're not ghosts. They can touch me, and I feel it.

 

(btw, there is such a thing as a tactile hallucination, too, so this could very easily and correctly be referred to as an 'induced hallucination.')

 

Personally, I don't get what the big deal is about getting tulpas to 'talk' in an auditory sense, either. Mental telepathy is a much faster and more accurate exchange then trying to form words that can have various connotations and meanings to explain yourself. Miscommunication happens with words. Think of how many times you've said something and someone took it the wrong way. I imagine telepathy can go awry too, but it seems much smoother in general.


Woodwindwhistler on www.asexuality.org

 

The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings. -Eric Hoffer

 

"We can never achieve perfection, but maybe we can approach it asymptotically. Never give up on plugging in those numbers!" ~Me

 

You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note. –Doug Floyd

 

My poetry: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5qMnL2tDkJYOGNhLW4tRHFHa0E&usp=sharing

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Tactile imposition is what I was referring to by 'ghosts', phrased that weird. I meant the other non-visual forms of imposition with no visual counterpart, so you felt the presence and were affected by to some extent someone that you couldn't see.

 

Communication with tulpas is usually less about clear communication of information and more about interaction. How much information can they really have to convey? I suppose there's a sort of 'charm' to talking with words. And the clarity of intent - if at cost of clarity of meaning - is usually why we focus on it so much here. A lot of people are looking for every sign they can get that their tulpa is independent from them. It's unfortunate, but not something we can really change.

 

I think the word we use for non-vocal communication through emotions and feelings is "tulpish". The term mindvoice gets used for both so it's confusing. It's not like you ever leave it behind completely; during development you focus on speaking with words, but later you should switch between them as is appropriate. Words are better for casual conversation, but sometimes tulpish or what-have-you is better at getting feelings across.

 

Personally, we've learned to do both at once. We always speak in words, but those words have the meaning-feelings attached to them, so we never misunderstand each other. The only time we use tulpish exclusively is if we've been inactive for a long time and auditory clarity is low, though that usually lasts less than a few minutes. But we've been around for seven years, so we had time to develop and sort all that out.


Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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Tactile imposition is what I was referring to by 'ghosts', phrased that weird. I meant the other non-visual forms of imposition with no visual counterpart, so you felt the presence and were affected by to some extent someone that you couldn't see.

 

Oh. Ok.

 

Communication with tulpas is usually less about clear communication of information and more about interaction. How much information can they really have to convey?

 

Well, since mine are bouncing around the astral plane on their own, and going to talk to my friends, they could conceivably amass a great deal of information and experience. I believe I may have to learn how to quiet my own mind to take it all in properly, however. (just as you supposedly do to communicate with another person telepathically) I'm also not sure yet if they record memories very well, because I myself don't. It's hard to picture (hahaha) being able to actually recall experiences, rather than just the vague mental mush I'm used to, so I'd probably have to put special effort into creating a tulpa that could.

 

I get the feeling that a lot of tulpas here are . . . for lack of a better word, childlike? Dependent on their 'parents,' I mean. Or else, like a friend that is maybe just a little bit needy. That's not the feeling I get from mine. I've had one thinking about leaving and not coming back. Exploring. I told them they could do whatever they wished, but I'd like to have them here. (Especially since they were my first. But, the creature's got wanderlust. After all, I gave that to them in particular. *wink*)

 

I suppose there's a sort of 'charm' to talking with words. And the clarity of intent - if at cost of clarity of meaning - is usually why we focus on it so much here.

 

Not sure I followed that. You believe words convey intent better than actual thought?

 

A lot of people are looking for every sign they can get that their tulpa is independent from them. It's unfortunate, but not something we can really change.

 

Hm. I guess my "sensing" of my tulpas is just so far removed from what I myself am feeling, I don't need the extra reassurance.

 

One is much more emotional than I am, for instance, and it feels very localized 'outside' of me. Ever done meditation to become more body aware? I could explain it better with that context.

 

The oddest thing about it is, I'm essentially 'empathetic' 'to' them, but I don't feel my own body reacting emotionally. It's just . . . like a wave washing over my side? So it's not direct 'empathy' as in, feeling another's feelings as your own, so much as . . . just emotional telepathy? That's the best way I can say it.

 

It's close to a tactile sensation, I suppose. If you believe in auras, or have ever experienced them, or have someone you're highly socially tuned to, you'd be able to compare standing in someone else's field. But I haven't progressed in doing that in the material world as of yet. Only get occasional brushes of it.

 

I think the word we use for non-vocal communication through emotions and feelings is "tulpish". The term mindvoice gets used for both so it's confusing. It's not like you ever leave it behind completely; during development you focus on speaking with words, but later you should switch between them as is appropriate. Words are better for casual conversation, but sometimes tulpish or what-have-you is better at getting feelings across.

 

Casual conversation is not something any of us value highly. I suppose because I am an extreme introvert, we don't convey things to each other unless it's important. That's probably another reason why I go long stretches without talking to them. If nothing needs to be addressed, then they can do whatever they'd like and I'm okay on my own.

 

Personally, we've learned to do both at once. We always speak in words, but those words have the meaning-feelings attached to them, so we never misunderstand each other. The only time we use tulpish exclusively is if we've been inactive for a long time and auditory clarity is low, though that usually lasts less than a few minutes. But we've been around for seven years, so we had time to develop and sort all that out.

 

Let it be noted here that my method of 'development' was writing them in stories, and unintentional, so they were already very well versed in words and very well-educated, with a life experience behind them. They weren't 'birthed' as a point of light or a held thought. They were fully-formed people by the time I realized they were 'there.'

 

In the story, they use telepathy, so that probably gives me this perspective on the matter.

 

I just . . . don't have any interest in putting energy into developing the phenomenon. Not when they can just tap me on the shoulder if they need my attention and can't get it mentally. Heck, in addition to my aphantasia, I might have more trouble forming distinct mental auditory perception, too? How was your internal dialog and music clarity replay or generation *before* attempting this?

 

Not gonna be worrying about it, in any case.


Woodwindwhistler on www.asexuality.org

 

The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings. -Eric Hoffer

 

"We can never achieve perfection, but maybe we can approach it asymptotically. Never give up on plugging in those numbers!" ~Me

 

You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note. –Doug Floyd

 

My poetry: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5qMnL2tDkJYOGNhLW4tRHFHa0E&usp=sharing

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Not sure I followed that. You believe words convey intent better than actual thought?

 

You probably don't even know what I was referring to honestly, 'cus you're new. The reason it's unfortunate, and the reason people strive for communication in words rather than thought, is that they're afraid their tulpas don't exist. They want their tulpa to talk in words that they didn't think of to prove their tulpa is sentient. "Intent" was literal there - they want to know their tulpa intended to say something, and they weren't just "parroting" as we call it, putting words in their mouth.

 

Not everyone of course, but a lot of people developing their tulpas. There's a fear that thoughts are too easily confused between yourself and your could-be tulpa. (Keep in mind we're talking about people with non-vocal stage tulpas here, not those who have had them for a while.)

 

 

Like I said, we speak in words in-mind but attached are those feelings that better convey what we mean, and that's why we don't have misunderstandings despite always speaking. I don't envy those who rely exclusively on words, because they seem to get into arguments with each other often.


Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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