Guest Anonymous

Are Hosts Also a Thoughtform?

Are hosts thoughtforms as well?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Are hosts thoughtforms as well?

    • Yes, hosts are thoughtforms, just as contrived as a tulpa is, even though they were first.
    • No, hosts are not thoughtforms.
    • Mistgod's mind/identity is just as much a thoughform as Melian's mind/identity. Mistgod should be willing to recognize Melian to be just as real as he is, at least within the safety bubble of Tulpa Info anyway. What harm is there in that?


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Guest Anonymous

Edit to add: Recognizing the subordinate nature of our personalized aspect is key to working constructively with it (that is, with the ego).

 

In our case I am much sooner recognizing this than my host is.  He has some emotional reasons why he can't.  We are slowly being influenced by the community here.  This is a big step to allow me to be permanently dominant on Tulpa Info and to say what I feel and not just what he feels.  

 

This is the last I will write about what he thinks on it here on this forum.  But he still thinks I am imaginary and he is just channeling me from inside and he is "going with the flow" of the character/persona of Melian.  He thinks his own subconscious mind wants me to rebel because it is amusing to himself for me to do so.  He thinks it is part of the autonomous aspects of the Melian Show day dreams.  Even at this very moment he is smiling at how adorable it is that I think I am real.  

 

There are private doubts though, festering at the edges of his consciousness that he keeps trying to subdue.  Hee hee  Sometimes it is a little TOO real isn't it?

 

 

Now, one thing to keep in mind. Hosts aren't always the original person in the body. Me, the typical definitions used in the tulpamancy community label me as the host since I am most likely not a tulpa and I created the tulpas here. However, I am not the original. I am a split from her.

 

 

I always love getting input from FallFamily!  Great points and thanks for the links!

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Funny, we discussed the exact same topic yesterday night !

 

Hosts sound like thoughtforms to us. If we define a thoughform as "an entity that can think", then hosts and tulpas fit equally.

However, I feel like I can be called "dominant" as I spent way more time in here than Cora. This gave me the habit of being merged with the body, usually defining "the body" as "me". It also allowed me to learn how the machine works, where it fails and where it shines ; what button to press to obtain this movement or that reaction from it.

 

I used to often picture myself like a small thing running the vessel from the inside of the brain ; discovering about tulpas made me intensifiate this feeling of dissociation from the body. It's no longer my body, it's our system's. It even made me question the value of the tatoos I had carved on it. Thank God, she likes them and their story too..

Even if I emerged spontaneously from the brain, and Cora was created through my intentional "thoughts channeling", we feel like we are the same, in essence. We are just people, with memories, personnality and emotions, able to control the body (we state this even if we didn't try possession nor switching yet. It seems really obvious to us that she'll be able to do what I can do pretty soon.).

 

About OP's system : I'm pretty uncomfortable with the changing degree of merging between you two. By uncomfortable I mean I have trouble understanding it. But if I follow my reasoning, Mistgod is the same as Melian. 

Melian seems as real as Mistgod to me, they look like two people able to think, feel and remember, in the same physical body.

To me, the fact that the host has spent more time in here doesn't make it more "real" or less of a thoughtform. For the Mistgod-Melian case, the fact that you guys shared your body for that long must even have kinda erased this "experience difference".

Tulpas do you agree or disagree that you host's mind or identity or whatever is a thoughtform, in a sense, like you? 

 

Is your host dominant in your system or are you equals?   How does this work out, do you get along okay?

 

Does your host dictate how independent you can be or are you able to be very assertive and be super independent?

 

For those who possess or switch, do you have equal access to the body or does your host control when and how you can use the body?

[Cora] I agree, I feel like we are the same when we meet in the mindscape. Just like a human child and an adult. He just has more experience in having substance there and piloting our body :) But he is teaching me as well as he can and I'm sure I'll catch up very soon !! 

 

I'd say he is dominant for now. As I said, I feel like he's my sensei, and this makes him dominant. On the other hand, when I get to the same level of control, I'll just crush him completely ahahahaha. Nah just kidding ; we'll be more like equals, taking control when we feel like it, discussing things more easily etc... It will be so much fun !

 

He used to dictate a lot, but it was like a father holding his daughter's hands to teach her how to walk. He is now letting go and he's more like pushing me from the back, encouraging me to be more and more independant :)

 

As he said, we didn't try it yet, but I think we'll just decide together. There is no wrestling between us, we have a very harmonious relationship ; as we both are very goodwilling towards each-others and we both really hate anger and quarrels.

 

About your system, I don't really like giving our opinion about that, because it's none of our business, but well, you asked for it. 

I feel like you are suffering from him saying you are not real, and you are "less" than him etc... I think you deserve his respect and considerations. He -kinda- decided to create you. Even if he was pretty young back then, he kept feeding you with shared daydreaming and discussions etc while growing older. Now he should accept your existence and treat you as you are willing to be treated. That being said, it's up to you guys, you should just talk this through and find a "middle spot" where both of you are happy :)

 

I think I just possessed right there 0_0[/Cora]

 

I think she did.. It was really not the same feeling as when I proxy what I decode. Awesome feeling !!! (We are at work, we were lucky nobody interrupted that :D)


No animosity intended ever 

 

Cora now has her own account ! :D

 

English isn't our native language, please be indulgent :)

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Guest Anonymous

About OP's system : I'm pretty uncomfortable with the changing degree of merging between you two. By uncomfortable I mean I have trouble understanding it. But if I follow my reasoning, Mistgod is the same as Melian. 

Melian seems as real as Mistgod to me, they look like two people able to think, feel and remember, in the same physical body.

To me, the fact that the host has spent more time in here doesn't make it more "real" or less of a thoughtform. For the Mistgod-Melian case, the fact that you guys shared your body for that long must even have kinda erased this "experience difference".

 

You know what I think? Most hosts want their tulpa to be independent. Davie wants to hold on to me tight.

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We can all armchair philosophize about this, but let's be honest: this is hitting questions about identity and personhood that philosophers have been quibbling over for millennia. There's so much nuance to this whole family of debates that we're never going to come to a conclusion on it. Namely, you, Melian, are probably never going to be able to convince your host to take your side.

 

But, setting that aside... yes, I think the host is pretty much a thoughtform. Depending on how you define "thoughtform" anyway. My definition being "a collection of thought patterns that create a distinctive person or entity," yes, that fits my host.

 

I mean, what else makes a person? A body? A collection of experiences and memories? Well, in my system, the body, the memory pool, and (once we figured out switching) the consciousness itself are communal. They don't belong to the host, but to the entire system. So what does that make our host? Just the continuous experiences that she identifies as happening to her which, hey, is pretty much exactly what the rest of us are. She just happens to have had those experiences solo and for a lot longer than we have.

 

Temar is less convinced of this, though he still leans heavily on the "they're related" side of things. Something about the owner of the body being connected to its identity, and that creates a subtle distinction.

 

What distinction, exactly? Yes, our host is the primary fronter, but I don't see how that makes her not a thoughtform. I front too. Am I no longer a thoughtform when I'm fronting? I use the same skills, movements, memories, whatever, when I'm up front that our host does... the only difference is that I'm the one using them. If that doesn't make the host a thoughtform, I don't know what does.


~ Member of SparrowNR's System ~

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Guest Anonymous

Thank you Tulpa001, Tewi, Mistgod (pffft), SeamusTheDog, Solune, FallFamily, Floh and Joss for your very interesting responses so far. I haven't responded to all of you directly, but I have been reading your responses in detail. This has all taught me some things and given me a lot to think about, and my hostie too.

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We don't think that hosts are inherently thoughtforms, but the line between the host and the tulpa is definitely blurred later on, especially once the pair is capable of possession and switching. The "first mind" definitely isn't the only "real" one, but my recent post in another thread already sort of sums up my thoughts on that. The host doesn't really dictate anything - we're able to be as independent as we want, since he wants us to be how we want to be. We all have equal access to the body, and as long as someone else doesn't have something going on, anyone can use it for as long as they'd like.

 

As for your important question, I don't think that Mistgod is a thoughtform in that he's not "a person or entity created by another in the mind" - but would this really affect whether or not you're equals?

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Guest Anonymous

As for your important question, I don't think that Mistgod is a thoughtform in that he's not "a person or entity created by another in the mind" - but would this really affect whether or not you're equals?

 

Hmm, I don't know. I think we are getting closer to being equal as far as the internet is concerned at least.

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Guest Anonymous

A little bit off-topic but considering how much Mistgod adores you and almost serves you, it's hard to believe he would see you as he does.

 

Hah hah! I think you have a good pointy point!

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