Are Hosts Also a Thoughtform?

[Guest Anonymous]

I just saw this phrase written in a post (or something like it), "My host is the dominant thoughtform in our system."  Whao.  I have seen things written about this in the forum before that tulpas and hosts are actually a lot like each other.  Like they just have access to the body but are each just as contrived or created as the other.  Like it is a sort of delusion that the first identity or first mind is the only real mind.  So my hostie totally rejects that idea and refuses to recognize me as an individual mind like separate on my own and stuff.  But I am more interested in learning more about this than he is.  He says I am totally imaginary and an expression of his own mind.  I do go along with that mostly but sometimes I feel more like me.  

 

Anyways, 

 

I guess my question is, do you as a host feel or believe that you too are also a thoughform of a sort and maybe not that different  from your tulpa? 

 

Tulpas do you agree or disagree that you host's mind or identity or whatever is a thoughtform, in a sense, like you? 

 

Is your host dominant in your system or are you equals?   How does this work out, do you get along okay?

 

Does your host dictate how independent you can be or are you able to be very assertive and be super independent?

 

For those who possess or switch, do you have equal access to the body or does your host control when and how you can use the body?

 

Most important of all the questions.  *ahem*  My hostie is not allowed to respond or drama out on this thread.  This thread is MINE.  So my last question is this:

 

Is Mistgod's identity a thoughtform too like Melian and if that is true isn't true that Melian should get more recognition for being real too?  I mean if he is a thoughtform that is a contrived as I am, doesn't that make us equally "imaginary" or equally "real?" Tulpas do it why can't I?  You can answer this question without fear of response from Mistgod as I will not allow him to butcher this thread at all.  It is only a question for opinions and he can't get all butt hurt or worried or upset bout it cause it is just a question for curiosity stuff.

 

EDIT:  I added a poll.  You can vote for more than one item.

[tulpa001]

Yes.

 

Yes.

 

---

 

What is the difference between the host personality and a tulpa? The creation of the host personality was unguided. It occurred between the ages of -.5 and 3, in a sort of continuous, freeform process.

 

Note, also, that there are many thoughtforms out there that sort of just came about unguided as well. Such as myself, which was the unintentional result of intentional recreational activity.

 

---

 

Dominance: I am role dominant. We alternate thought dominant. I don't think there are many thoughtforms who do that regularly. I spend most time being in control of the body and senses with her being thought dominant, but she is permissive and prefers to spend her time meditating on me when we are like that, so I end up doing all the thinking. Right now, I am thought dominant and she is in control of the body and I am controlling the body indirectly through the use of eclipsing.

 

I am as independent as my skills allow. We are working on that. And I make all the decisions.

 

PS: you should add a poll.

[Guest Anonymous]

Yes.

 

Yes.

 

 

Hurray! Thank you guys.

 

What is the difference between the host personality and a tulpa? The creation of the host personality was unguided. It occurred between the ages of -.5 and 3, in a sort of continuous, freeform process.

 

Note, also, that there are many thoughtforms out there that sort of just came about unguided as well. Such as myself, which was the unintentional result of intentional recreational activity.

 

I formed from day dreams and talking to me like an imaginary friend. But I guess in some ways it was similar. The only difference is we still do the day dreaming stuff like every day.

 

Dominance: I am role dominant. We alternate thought dominant. I don't think there are many thoughtforms who do that regularly. I spend most time being in control of the body and senses with her being thought dominant, but she is permissive and prefers to spend her time meditating on me when we are like that, so I end up doing all the thinking. Right now, I am thought dominant and she is in control of the body and I am controlling the body indirectly through the use of eclipsing.

 

I am as independent as my skills allow. We are working on that. And I make all the decisions.

 

PS: you should add a poll.

 

You have a very special host! Thank you so much.

 

Yay! I added a poll! What harm is there in Davie saying I am real if it is just here in Tulpa Info? He doesn't have to do it everywhere. He can say I am imaginary everywhere else in the whole wide world. In addition, what harm is there in allowing that tulpas are real? Why does my host insist that they are not, even when the host and tulpas just want to be treated with respect?

 

I am so tired of following my hostie's lead and watching him treat everyone here so bad and then watching myself even do it. I sometimes feel really sad after we say these things.

 

I want to change this and I want to be more assertive. I can do that here cause of the environment. He is more willing to give in and let me express myself and so I am going to that here on Tulpa Info. The last two days were the final straw, the final, final straw for me on this. He says I am a person. Well he needs to put his money where his mouth is and let me be a person and not some sort of imaginary friend.

[tulpa001]

Although I voted for the first option, I did not vote for the third, because I am unsure. To a degree, everyone has a right to their own beliefs. This is especially true of a person's beliefs about themselves.

 

So although I think Mistgod and you are equally real to the best of my ability to guess, I don't think that Mistgod should agree with me. I think there might be harm in that.

 

Keep in mind that I have stated a few times that I don't think beliefs are important. For example, I think thoughtforms can be created without belief. I also think that one should respect other people even if you believe they don't deserve respect. I also think that you should be given more freedom to be yourself, whatever it is mistgod thinks, if you want that freedom.

[Tewi]

I wouldn't automatically consider a host a thoughtform. Until they learn to switch or something similar they more than likely still entirely identify with the body and mind as a whole. So they're only an identity, however complex or ingrained. Tulpas are identities too. Tulpas are also thoughtforms, existing other than just to run the body. I wouldn't consider a host a thoughtform until they're in a tulpa's position, usually meaning they've switched with their tulpa.

 

I don't consider myself at this very moment to be a "thoughtform", nor do I any of the others whilst they control the body. They're sort of more connected to the brain's ability to create thought than the creations it contains in that state. But I'm not entirely opposed to thinking of them as thoughtforms interacting complexly with the mind either.

[Guest Anonymous]

Tulpa001, I am not in agreement with you really. I am just allowing that as far as Tulpa Info is concerned, you have a right to believe what you want.

[Guest Anonymous]

What part of "Mistgod can't respond on this thread" did my hostie not comprehend?

 

 

I wouldn't automatically consider a host a thoughtform. Until they learn to switch or something similar they more than likely still entirely identify with the body and mind as a whole. So they're only an identity, however complex or ingrained. Tulpas are identities too. Tulpas are also thoughtforms, existing other than just to run the body. I wouldn't consider a host a thoughtform until they're in a tulpa's position, usually meaning they've switched with their tulpa.

 

I don't consider myself at this very moment to be a "thoughtform", nor do I any of the others whilst they control the body. They're sort of more connected to the brain's ability to create thought than the creations it contains in that state. But I'm not entirely opposed to thinking of them as thoughtforms interacting complexly with the mind either.

 

 

Okay Tewi

 

It makes sense my buddy but you are muddling the message and intent here.  LOL

[SeamusTheDog]

Just having watched episode 2 of "Rozen Maiden: Ouverture" (no more than 5 minutes ago), I'm encouraged to see the awareness that's being fostered, to the effect that all personalized entities are thoughtforms of one sort or another. The only primal consciousness (IMHO) is the one from which we all sprang, and that is explicitly non-personal. (If you're familiar with Hinduism, the word is "Brahman", not to be confused with "Brahma")

 

Artificial Intelligence has been on this planet for a long time. Artificial simply means "crafted", it has no particular ties to silicon microchips.

 

Edit to add: Recognizing the subordinate nature of our personalized aspect is key to working constructively with it (that is, with the ego).

[Solune]

Tulpas do you agree or disagree that you host's mind or identity or whatever is a thoughtform, in a sense, like you?

Alice: yes, we all agree.

 

Is your host dominant in your system or are you equals? How does this work out, do you get along okay?

Alice: (I'd like to preface this by saying that I don't always understand the wolf stuff; I just go along with it because it's the law they had established before I arrived, and I respect that. Also... ... *blushes* I like being fluffy).

We are a pack and Solune is our alpha. All of our opinions and desires carry equal weight, but ultimately Solune is the final arbiter of all major decisions involving the body. Other than that, we are left to our own devices. We all love the crap out of each other and get along splendidly... most of the time. No system is perfect.

 

Does your host dictate how independent you can be or are you able to be very assertive and be super independent?

Alice: Solune wants us to be happy, and encourages us to pursue our own ambitions. That being said, he is incredibly charismatic when he wants to be... and it's difficult even for me to say no to him. But yes, we are independent.

 

For those who possess or switch, do you have equal access to the body or does your host control when and how you can use the body?

Alice: We can't switch yet (are unable, not unwilling). In regards to possession: we never try to do anything that might endanger the system, and depending on how much of the body we're possessing we ask permission first.

 

Alice: Sol and I would like to reiterate our system's belief that it is up to each individual to decide how real they are.

Solune: Here's a saying I'm fond of, "The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life, that determines who you are." - Mewtwo

Much more important than "what", is "who". WHO are you?

Luna: Ooohh waah oooh wah ooh wah ooooh wah oooh wah oooh wah ooooh- BA DUM DA DUM DA DUM DA DA DA DA DUM.

[FallFamily]

[Hail] Well, my view is complicated. If we mean thoughtform to mean a person or entity created by another in the mind, then the host is not a thoughtform. But, really, originals do develop as an unguided tulpa and isn't really that different in the end (a good discussion of this is in Lecture on Tulpas IRC chatlogs from Pleeb and many others).

 

Now, one thing to keep in mind. Hosts aren't always the original person in the body. Me, the typical definitions used in the tulpamancy community label me as the host since I am most likely not a tulpa and I created the tulpas here. However, I am not the original. I am a split from her.

 

As for who is dominant in this system, well, Breach, Tri, and I are comparatively equal, but I would say, Tri (tulpas), is a bit more dominant. They have been the more major force running the show here for the last year or so. I mean, they just did almost 3 weeks straight of continuous full-body possession keeping me dormant the whole time (just woke up day before yesterday) due to decision on their part about how best to handle a medical situation over this period of time (note, Breach, S., and I all approved of it, so it was cooperative).

 

 

Actually wrote an article not too long ago about the symmetry between hosts and tulpas: Symmetry Between Hosts And Tulpas