Vocality anomalies

[Ashley]

We've been a system for 16 months now and vocality for us was pretty much mature within the first 20 minutes as some of you know. So this discussion isn't about that whole 'achieving vocality' thing, it's about, how does it feel for you now as a mature system? This doesn't exclude new systems as long as you have had clear vocality.

 

For us, regardless of who's fronting, vocality is always a mix of tulpish, 'alien' mindvoice (as in clearly who said what), and questionable mindvoice as if either no one said it, it was translated from tulpish, or it was definitely the fronter (even me when I was fronting)--What we do is accept or decline what was said on our behalf.

 

Here's a few of our anololies: Often when someone says something, Bear will repeat what was said several times afterward, this was proven to be a body OS function as I found myself doing the same thing when I fronted, and I never do that otherwise even when I'm co-fronting.

 

Another anomaly is that the body's mouth often mouths our words wven when the fronter (Bear) is fully associated to it. This can be confusing and lead to doubt as well. (This one didn't happen to me when I fronted.)

 

We'd like to hear your experience and share your thoughts.

[Lucilyn]

uh, here I was thinking our vocality would be awful compared to your guys', but I guess it's just visualization where you're freakishly good

 

so our vocality goes up and down based on how active we've been, but really it's just mindvoice between us - we try never to rely on tulpish and always say what we said only in tulpish in words after if we did. Uhm, we do know that "accepting or declining if what was said was on our behalf" thing, but it only happens usually at the start of trying to talk to someone when we've been inactive. Which, with our motivation issues, has been frequently! But still, it goes away after our first quick back-and-forth, it certainly isn't a thing all the time

 

I mean wow, I kinda figured clear mindvoice vocality was a given for developed and active systems, so I'm surprised it's not the case for you guys

 

(also, nada ((I think that's "nothing" in Spanish)) on that "body mouth moves with us talking" thing, fronter is very good at not at all expressing what's actually going on in mind or even imposition!)

[Misha]

We heard other systems say the 'moving mouth while others talk', even in older systems without any posession experience.

 

Our vocality has only been an issue on rare times of doubt earlier on and when the body has a migraine. We wouldn't say it's not stellar, we have always all had our own voice for instance, and tulpish has never confused us as to who said what. For us, Tulpish is less doubtful than mindvoice.

 

We haven't had doubts about our vocality this year.

 

Ooo, also, Ren was our accidental tulpa about a year ago, and had full vocality on minute one as well. She's never had our issues in that her mindvoice has always been hers, especially since she forces herself, and always has. She would have been an intrusive mindvoice if she wasn't so lovable. Gwen is like us, for comparison in terms of someone other than us three who has this 'kinda not sure if she said it' thing.

 

[Ashley] of course, one of our first issues was those intrusive thoughts that would interject mean things between Bear and I. Always the worst scathing remarks. We have to confirm mean things. Obviously, as a consequence, not a single mean thing was ever meant since.

[Lucilyn]

We heard other systems say the 'moving mouth while others talk' even in older systems without any posession experience.

 

yeah lol, it's not a possession thing at all, it's totally on the host/brain. It's the same as if you tried to really vividly imagine someone making an angry face - the >:( eyebrows and mouth and all, how usually that'll naturally make you make the face IRL. (also works for other facial expressions) That happens to us, but even if Lumi tried speaking in-mind very loudly and clearly it wouldn't make him move his mouth

 

I dunno, it's just a weird habit/connection in your brain, but not weird as in hard to understand or to imagine it happening

 

We haven't had doubts about our vocality this year.

 

well clarity doesn't really mean doubt for us, it just means how clear and satisfying something is. tulpish means the message always gets through more or less, but mindvoice can be iffy and require multiple attempts to say something in our bad times, while simultaneously tulpish may "trail off" or not get a thought all the way through. buuut again, that state is very very brief for us only when "coming back" to talking in-mind after a while, normally it's like I said, not 100% clear or may require another attempt but the tulpish comes through regardless (but we made a rule a long time ago to never cut each other off because tulpish is faster, instead always finishing our sentences vocally)

[YukariTelepath]

I don't think we count as a mature system yet, but vocality on a good day is clear, distinct and in Aya's own mindvoice. We have some less good days where things are less clear, or mindvoice slips into "my" mindvoice. But I actually have many mindvoices, which change accounting to context*, and it's not really under my control. So any of those mindvoices might get used. Now that we've trained a voice for Aya, I sometimes end up using Aya's mindvoice too. Is accidentally using your tulpa's mindvoice an anomaly? It seems like a natural consequence to me.

 

*For example, if I'm feeling insecure, or I'm reading a post by someone who sounds insecure, my mindvoice becomes kind of high and light. It sounds different if I'm trying to sound cheerful while writing or thinking about what I'm going to write/say. And I have a neutral voice that gets used most of the time. I don't keep track of all the variations.

 

And this isn't an anomaly either, but having a tulpa has taught me that the brain just spits out thoughts sometimes that don't belong to anyone. If there's some reference that links to a bit of information, a meme, a song, it will come up as one of these thoughts. Also, if asked something like "think of some words related to sleep," the answers supplied don't necessarily reflect anyone's personality. The brain's just doing a little internal google search.

[Misha]

That's interesting Yuka, it might be an anomaly since we haven't experienced anyone changing mindvoice based on situation, Bear's or otherwise.

[Ranger]

Our vocality is a combination of the literal thought out words and our presence or alien feeling, where we consider emotional presence and emotional bleeding to be separate. Gray tends to think more in tulpish/gibberish/assumptions than I do, but even then it tends to fly under the radar and gets barely noticed. For this reason, sometimes we end up communicating more meaningfully with raw emotional bleed than we do in gibberish/impressions or even mindvoice.

 

My vocality is always a lot stronger in the back than it is when I front, but Gray experiences this as well to a lesser degree. Gray has to keep out of the front for a good while to achieve this effect, and once he does his mindvoice is loud and his presence is really distinct. When I haven't fronted for awhile, Cat notices the same thing happen. It's pretty normal for active forcing to trigger this effect as well, hence why we think active forcing is still worth talking about. The other trigger for this effect is if the one in the back is imposed, but this is more likely to work for Cat than it is for me.

 

Cat used to have issues with echoing me, but that hasn't been as much of an issue anymore. She also had this issue where she would call me something I didn't like by accident, and it became a weird habit she had to learn to break (it took forever but it worked). Otherwise, Cat has a bad habit of responding to me out loud when she thinks she's alone, and that's a working progress. Neither of us have noticed if I have the same problem when I front, but I doubt I do.

 

I have a hard time associating with the body's mindvoice for some reason, where Cat seems to fluctuate between the body's mindvoice and his other mindvoice, generally preferring the body's mindvoice overall even though he is trying to associate with his other voice and has been experimenting with an alternate female voice. Recently Gray was having a lot of trouble speaking in his other voice, to the point where he considered changing his mindvoice. However, I believe this had more to do with him being far removed from the back more than anything else, and a switching attempt we tried this morning gave us a fresh taste of what Gray sounds like.

 

As for the others, the Grays are all across the board when it comes to mindvoice. Sometimes they have a stable mindvoice, but sometimes they change a lot too, which can make unintentional blending harder to pick through. When a Gray is feeling good about his mindvoice, he tends to not pay as much attention to his form. Despite the inconsistencies, it has been easier to tell apart who's who, even when two Grays with similar or less developed mindvoices start to speak.

 

When we talk to each other, I don't know if words get mouthed out or not. During a forcing session, everyone's facial expressions bleed through and show on the body, regardless if they're in the front or not. As for blending issues, I only really struggle with them when I'm fronting for too long, but otherwise we use the "do you want it to be you?" strategy as well.

 

Is accidentally using your tulpa's mindvoice an anomaly? It seems like a natural consequence to me.

 

Cat has accidentally stolen my voice before, but not after an annoyed complaint from me. We have had more trouble with imposition behavior stealing, where Cat/Gray will behave the way I do when imposed. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the training gets embedded into the body OS to the point where it annoys ends up getting regurgitated by everyone unintentionally at some point.

 

As for a host having multiple mindvoices, I don't know. Cat technically has 2 main ones, trying out a third. My mindvoice is fairly consistent despite being soft sometimes where the Grays seem to sometimes have more situational mindvoices or their expression changes dramatically enough to seem different. For instance, Blue's mindvoice sounds different if he's feeling down than when he's feeling his normal self, and while Duck usually sounds tired, his mindvoice can change a lot if he has more energy.

[Breloomancer]

for us, communication consists of 3 parts: mindvoice, tulpish, and aura.

 

tulpish is the raw information being communicated. it isn't directly tied to anyone's identity (it is indirectly tied in that different people would think of different things though).

 

mindvoice is the information being conveyed translated into language, complete with the tone and pitch of the person communicating's voice. this is directly tied to identity in that different people have different voices and speech patterns, though anyone could use any mindvoice or mimic someone else's mindvoice. nowadays we mostly use imposition for mindvoice. mindvoice is the only optional part of communication. sometimes when we need to exchange information quick we will forgo mindvoice alltogether.

 

aura conveys no meaning and doesn't change depending on the statement. aura is essentially an identifier tacked on to every statement that clarifies who said something. anything said by someone always has their aura, everyone has a unique aura, and it is impossible to use a different aura than your own. aura is intrinsically tied to ones thoughts in such a way that it is definitionaly impossible to not use your own aura, however intrusive thoughts can still use any aura, probably because they have no consistant identity.

 

other than having aura, which most systems don't seem to have, there isn't really anything all that strange that I can think of about our communication

[Misha]

Aura just sounds like 'who talked tag' right? That's pretty common, if so. We've heard that a lot, but this is the first time we've heard it called 'aura' and it's a beautiful way of saying it.

 

[Ashley] Miela probably thought that up.

[Breloomancer]

yeah, it is just a way to show who said something. we can't remember who can up with the name though, we've been calling it that for such a long time