Need Help - Tulpas Have Been overtaken by Walk-In - Do not know what to do

[SuruTheTwentySecond]

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Edited July 11, 2021 by SuruTheTwentySecond
Not comfortable leaving this conversation to be read

[Flandre]

You give far too much power to your imagination by believing in everything it throws at you. None of this can "actually happen" if you truly don't want it to. But by feeding intrusive thoughts (of any kind) by fully believing in, focusing on, and worrying about them, you reinforce them both to yourself and as an unconscious habit that'll just keep popping up.

 

The golden rule of all intrusive thoughts, thoughtforms, or any other problems stemming from imagination - if you ignore them, do not give them attention or attribute significance to them, they will go away. Fighting them does not work. Playing their game of feeding your imagination and reaffirming that it's all totally real and important and needs to be dealt with - that just reinforces intrusive thoughts in your mind as a whole, regardless of whether you feel like you're "beating them" or not. Ignoring them and attributing no legitimacy to them is the only thing that stops them.

 

You can still have tulpas while employing this method, but it'll take a little restructuring of how you're probably used to interacting with/imagining them for wonderlanding or similar activities. When intrusive thoughtforms or other thoughts show up, you simply say "Nope, don't want or care about that" and stop giving it attention. And most people who struggle with these sorts of problems do subconsciously want to give them attention, to give legitimacy to intrusive thoughts, to say "No, it's definitely not under my control! Look, it still happens even though I don't want it to!"

 

Unless you've actually got schizophrenia, these are just excuses, to serve the part of humans' brains that likes drama. People often subconsciously want drama and "bad" things to keep happening. But if you really don't, you need to stop legitimizing the thoughts and experiences by putting so much stock into them. It may be "un-fun", but it's the only way to permanently win against intrusive thoughts/thoughtforms. Any sort of "fighting" (or "defending" or most kinds of symbolism) is placebo and still inviting more intrusive experiences in the future.

 

I wish you guys luck in sorting your mind out.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Flandre

[SuruTheTwentySecond]

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Edited July 11, 2021 by SuruTheTwentySecond
Not comfortable leaving this conversation to be read

[Luminesce]

All I can say is what Flandre already said. None of this is "real", and you ultimately have control over these things in your imagination. Believing you don't have control is the only way you won't.

 

Unless you actually do have schizophrenia. If you're hounded by mental goings-on consistently over time, you should consider seeing a psychiatrist and possibly finding a medication to help deal with invasive thoughts.

 

But if you think you're mentally healthy, then it's just a matter of exerting your innate control over your mind, imagination, and beliefs. Stop believing these things are just going to happen, stop believing you can't do anything about them - that's really all there is to it in a healthy brain. If you can't do this and your mental goings-on remain chaotic, then seek professional help, as there's most likely nothing we can do on this forum to help you.

[Ranger]

If you want to walk away from your tulpas to spend more time taking care of yourself, that's okay. You have accumulated a lot of stress and fear trying to sort this out, and I think it would be better for you and your system if you think stepping away is the best choice. If you want to keep them around and sort something out, that's okay too. Please do not feel like you can't make this choice. You have the ability to not talk to them and stop thinking about them by refusing to think about them for long enough.

 

On 10/7/2020 at 7:01 PM, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

No matter what I do, there always seems to be problems all the time with my tulpas, and I feel as if I am ready to let go of them. I have let gone of them several times, but now from since the start of this October, I have completely misunderstood my tulpas worries and now I do not know if these upcoming explained occurances are my original tulpas. These characters always seem to grab out at past tulpas and say - they are mine now. I keep protecting the same past tulpas, but at the same time it seems completely pointless to do so because they always end up being taken.

 

A tulpa can't take "ownership" of another tulpa and magically make them disappear. The original tulpas you have are safe.

 

If any other tulpas get "taken", do not create more tulpas. I am concerned you will create more tulpas than you can handle, especially because I remember you struggling with the idea of having 2 tulpas. Instead of creating another tulpa, focus on trying to call out to the ones that are still around.

 

On 10/7/2020 at 7:01 PM, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

The reason this all fell apart? Sex. Sex, mistrust, rape, no guidance.

Rape came from the male side because I was worried they would mistreat the female side. 

Then there is also violence. Violence stemmed from my tulpas kinda pushinig a suicidal message on my character, Lon. I did always tell them to let go, so maybe my messages to them were perversed in a way...

 

There isn't any advice I can give on the sexual insecurity other than it seems to be something that's related to a more complicated and deeper personal context. My feeling is your headmates re-enacting your insecurities are a sign you have something unresolved and need therapy for.

 

As for the suicidal messaging- dissipation is a tricky task because of how easy it is to wrap on in guilt or fear and create more stress and anxiety from it. I really like this guide because it walks though dissipation in a really gentle way and addresses guilt, shame, and fear so it is easier to move on.

 

On 10/7/2020 at 7:01 PM, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

Now I have a walk-in problem. It knows dismantling, it stemmed from sex and always misuses topical engagements. It doessn't know how my emotions work (I'm stoic, Capricorn and slightly Asperger) and it keeps taunting me about everything I do. It is now just the one character, and I do not even know the walk-in's name... so it feels completely like the time to let go.

 

11 hours ago, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

My tulpas body has been taken control of by a unknown force or presence. I do not know it's name, it's idendity, nor it's real nature. It doesn't tend to do destruction or such of the matter, but more or less doesn't want me or my tulpas exonerating it. My tulpas body has lost control, and the one in control is someone we've fought, or I've only fought- for several days. Is there any way I could recover my tulpas presence, or is it lost entirely? 

 

On 10/7/2020 at 7:01 PM, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

I feel like I need to move on from them, but not like this where I feel a complete hostile character encroach on their and mine spaces. 

 

11 hours ago, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

Should I attempt understanding this person, or should I skip him and attempt recovery? Mind that it doesn't recover, should I attempt continuing trying to talk with my tulpas?

 

This sounds very similar to what we struggled with in the past, something we refer to as an "intrusive thoughtform". Assuming this is a similar experience, we came up with some tips and tricks for how to deal with these.

 

For fairness, I should mention our approach to this has been criticized because it gives too much thought to an intrusive thought, which is essentially what this is. However, the end goal is to ignore it, but we had to take some extra steps to achieve that. With this situation, we have found "just ignore it" by itself doesn't really work because these intrusive thoughts go out of their way to engage with you for attention and sometimes lead to scary things like a tulpa feeling they have lost control of themslf. That's difficult to ignore.

 

I want to clarify that a lot of what Flandre already said also applies here, only I want to give more context for what we think all of this means and how to apply what she said. I want to break down what this situation might look like so there are no surprises, how to ignore it, and have the tools you need to manage this.

 

From our experience, an intrusive thoughtform is like a walk-in but has a different way of seeking attention- by bullying, harassing, or putting others in unreasonable and extreme situations. Unlike a normal intrusive thought such as a disturbing scene, these seem sentient and don't automatically go away when you want them too.

 

These things often use fear tactics to try and put themselves in a position where they have "control" over you. Pretending to be another tulpa and say horrible things, kidnapping and holding tulpas hostage, saying they have some rand evil plan, etc. The goal of these fear tactics is to get you engaged, feed it attention, and trick you into not dissipating it. Once you realize it's just a petty tactic for it to keep stressing you out and hold a fake sense of power over you, you're ready to get rid of these.

 

Don't feel bad about dissipating an intrusive thoughtform. We have a couple headmates were originally intrusive thoughts, but it was like building a tulpa on a sour core. Eventually, our headmates matured to the point of rejecting the intrusive nature they didn't like and/or got in the way of being able to function normally. Ultimately, you're better off making a new tulpa instead of trying to force an intrusive thought into one, and this intrusive thought isn't a tulpa to begin with.

 

There are two general situations- one where an intrusive thought exists separately from everyone else and another that seems to "take over" another tulpa. The second situation is essentially smoke and mirrors, but the problem we found is when you try to call for the original tulpa, you end up summoning the intrusive thought instead of the tulpa. This may or may not apply to the hostage situation as well. You have to kill off or wait out the intrusive before you can call your tulpa again.

 

Intrusive thoughtforms are temporary. It can't exist after not being spoken to for too long, that's why it goes out of its way to engage with you. We found that intrusive thoughts will disappear by the next day, but not before causing a huge stink of trouble.

 

So that's the ins and outs of what we experienced. I want to let you know all of this because being able to label this and knowing how it will behave in advance is something we found to be reassuring. Knowing that it's just fear mongering for attention and it can't handle being separated from engagement for too long is half the battle.

 

---

 

The first step we take is isolate the intrusive thought in a safe space. Regardless of if it's a corrupted tulpa or not, we found it relieving to put them in a wonderland room where you know it can't hurt itself (one of the things we struggled with is the intrusive imagery of it hurting itself because it made us feel guilty). Being separated in its own space means it can't mess with anyone else.

 

The second step is just playing the waiting game. Walk away from it, and leave it alone and let it fade away in the back of your mind. It may lash out, try to get your attention, lie, freak out that its dying, or say it has some secret plan outside of your awareness. The reality is its a whole bunch of excuses for you to talk to it. Don't talk to it, let it die off. The actual dying off process usually takes anywhere from 3-20 minutes, you're probably going to be bored. Thinking about something else, playing a game, reminding yourself things are fine and things will get better, etc. all help.

 

After that, it's gone. You will be able to talk to your tulpa(s) again. They may feel stressed, scared, or feel guilty. Remember that anything an intrusive thoughtform did wasn't actually them and anything it did wasn't anybody's fault.

 

Don't worry about having another encounter. If it happens again, just get rid of it. These are more likely to pop up as a result of extreme stress. The more experience you have with dealing with these things, the easier it gets, the faster it will die off, and the less frequent these encounters will become to the point of not happening anymore.

[SuruTheTwentySecond]

...

Edited July 11, 2021 by SuruTheTwentySecond
Not comfortable leaving this conversation to be read

[Ranger]

4 hours ago, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

 

 

4 hours ago, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

Aforementioned "bad tulpa"/ walk-in keeps building up non-sentient beings to follow him and do things his/hers way.

 

I want to briefly explain non-sentient beings in the mind. These are called "servitors" and are typically created to carry out a specific task. Typically these are symbols to visualize an abstract concept or feeling. For example, you could visualize a scale for how tired you feel.

 

Some servitors are used to mimic sentience or carry out fronting. Only in one case have I seen a servitor that controls the body behave as it should, and even then it sounded more like glorified autopilot. In every other case I have seen, these were either NPCs or tulpas. I suspect this because a lot of servitors would "go rouge" and show signs of sentience.

 

I wouldn't worry about these or even bother to keep track of these if you don't want them. They are easy to forget about if you don't think they're important.

 

4 hours ago, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

They use their building as a way of making either making friends, or use it to block me from making inner desicions.

 

A few things here:

 

1) A fresh walk-in is too weak to stand on its own without forcing or puppeting. As long as you don't want these "extras", they will cease to exist when you choose to ignore them. Walk-in creation in of itself won't create system overpopulation if you deny the walk-ins time and attention.

 

2) I'm not sure what an inner decision is, I would like clarification on this. I would like to give my thoughts and you tell me if I have the right idea or not.

 

I'm wondering if by "inner decision" you mean these characters can think outside of your awareness. This concept is called parallel processing.

 

I'm a large skeptic of parallel processing, and I recently learned true parallel processing would only be possible through intense training. Since these characters appeared out of the blue more or less, they do not have the ability to think outside of your awareness. Instead, what is likely happening is confabulation and making assumptions. Wonderlanding and memory recall are very similar experiences in the mind, so it is easy to confuse the two. This makes things tricky because a tulpa isn't lying when they experience something- they experienced it on the spot rather than in the past. However, given the intrusive nature of these characters, threats they make or recounts of the horrible things they did are going to be lies.

 

4 hours ago, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

They have tried making one called "the Mind", which is nerve-racking to say the least because they try to manipulate it.

 

Servitors are limited in what they can or can't do. At best, it's like biofeedback.

 

You're not going to be deleted or turned off just because there's a delete button in the mind. Symbolism can report what's going on in the mind, but it can't kill brain cells or change your blood flow magically. An imaginary kill switch is an empty threat.

 

4 hours ago, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

I woke up with a fighting dream that segwayed into this being cutting me up. Did not see tulpas, so this being is probably the only one left.

 

Dreams are seperate from what you do in the mind with your tulpas. I'm sorry you had a scary nightmare, but the good news is a nightmare is not going to change how the inner world operates or hurt any tulpas.

 

If you have tulpas or other thoughtforms disappearing, it could simply be because they're too weak to stand on their own and they naturally dissipated. If this happens, I think this is for the best. If there are any tulpas strong enough to stand on their own, they won't disappear forever. Worst case scenario, I think you're better off starting from scratch with one tulpa after you have had a long break from tulpamancy.

 

4 hours ago, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

Should I give up? Communication with tulpas is difficult. Moving on would feel awful at this point, but I'll try to atleast do a couple of things for them.

 

Dissipating the bad actors and focusing on yourself is not giving up. This is a hard choice to make, and doing this to move forward is a sign of strength.

 

If your other tulpas are strong enough to stand on their own, there isn't a time pressure. Tulpas are for life, and most of the time people can revive tulpas months or even years later and they're okay.

 

I really hope you can reach out to a therapist or someone to talk to. You have a lot of trouble with anxiety and nightmares, and seeing someone can help you heal. While tulpamancy can be helpful in stressful times, oftentimes it is not enough and other times it's a big distraction from the big picture.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Ranger

[SuruTheTwentySecond]

Thank you, Ranger.

 

As for 

Quote

2) I'm not sure what an inner decision is, I would like clarification on this. I would like to give my thoughts and you tell me if I have the right idea or not.

 

I'm wondering if by "inner decision" you mean these characters can think outside of your awareness.

It's life making a descions by vocally saying it on the outside instead of thinking on it or meditating on it. I sometimes have a harder time registering my entities decisions, or need more time understanding the decision. On the inside, these entities had a habit of lying of fabricating stories to servitors or figments so that I would be pressured, to reiterate that idea. My tulpa does come back to help me, but I believe it is either only one or two that come back. The others seem antaganistic, and I do not know why because I deny taking any sort of guidance or use of them. They just started being this way through constant, normalized thinking while being depressed. They can't seem to escape from the notion that they need to ignore my thinking, but understand my dialogue with them and the peace that I want.

 

My decision is to ignore them. After some hard times, and some fights, these entities have taken to harming my body, badmouthing me, or thinking that they do. I think my tulpas may have left me with servitors that don't completely understand who or what they are. That is what they keep saying, "they don't know themselves, or understand where or who they are.  

[Ranger]

4 hours ago, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

It's life making a descions by vocally saying it on the outside instead of thinking on it or meditating on it. I sometimes have a harder time registering my entities decisions, or need more time understanding the decision. On the inside, these entities had a habit of lying of fabricating stories to servitors or figments so that I would be pressured, to reiterate that idea.

 

I want to make sure I understand- the difference between an inner decision and an outer decision is you speaking to yourself with your mindvoice and you verbalizing your thoughts out loud to yourself.

 

I wanted additional clarification because I was confused by the first part of this sentence:

 

Quote

It's life making a descions by vocally saying it on the outside [...]

 

I'm assuming you're saying you are making life decisions, not that life itself as an external force is thinking for you.

 

4 hours ago, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

The others seem antaganistic, and I do not know why because I deny taking any sort of guidance or use of them. They just started being this way through constant, normalized thinking while being depressed. They can't seem to escape from the notion that they need to ignore my thinking, but understand my dialogue with them and the peace that I want.

 

I doubt these are anything more than intrusive thoughts. Even walk-ins, baby tulpas, will be agreeable or at least be willing to negotiate. Intrusive thoughts are resistant to guidance, love, or support, and that doesn't change unless you build a new tulpa using the intrusive thought as the base (which I don't recommend doing, you're better off making a new tulpa from scratch).

 

Depressed headmates may lash out or try to isolate themselves, but they are lashing out because they can't help it, not because they have a hostile intent.

 

4 hours ago, SuruTheTwentySecond said:

I think my tulpas may have left me with servitors that don't completely understand who or what they are.

 

They probably don't do anything given they have no purpose. I'm assuming they would be just as functional as a wonderland tree at best.

 

---

 

I think you're on the right path. Good luck, I hope things get easier from here.

[SuruTheTwentySecond]

Good update

 

Everything is fine now, at the very least calm.

 

I'll let them update on it themselves:

Hey there tulpa community, how are you? 

Severe trauma has been here,

Be a guide, not a host.

 

I like to add to not try to force yourself when a sexual anomoly or lash out, otherwise intense force may be had. Everything this night is calm, and I think everything will be better for future prospects.

 

I'll be back with more.

Edited July 11, 2021 by SuruTheTwentySecond