potential issues with visualisation/verifying authenticity of communication

[serenefish]

heyo

 

i'm completely new here, as i am to tulpas in general. i found out about this place after i had a dream that i was deeply and lovingly connected (in a platonic way) to kris (deltarune protag). i made an uboachan.net (yume nikki/hikkineet/jhorror fansite) post discussing this, and i was led here by way of seeing user Abveion's "quick start" guide ( /topic/23147-abvieons-simple-guide-to-tulpas/ ).

i followed it pretty closely, and as per its suggestions, i just finished my first dedicated 30-minute "session" of talking to kris. however, i find that it's kind of hard both to strongly visualise and clearly communicate with them, at least in the way that i'd like.

when i talk to them, it's in their bedroom from the game, but it's a little tricky to strongly resonate with them. when i commune, through visualising the room, talking/communicating with them, and asking for their input, it's as though through a thick pane of black tinted glass. i experience the same phenomenon when processing ordinary thoughts through my mindvoice, as well as when reading books or fanfiction, so it could just be that it's a "muscle" i haven't stretched very much yet. however, i want to iron out any potential problems in the long run, just for posterity.

an additional problem i have is that i view the room from an almost animal crossing-like perspective; 3/4 xray view with a black void around it (the "edges of my mind"). i'm fine with this for now, but i just want to know if i should do my best to change viewpoints now so that i'm not locked in later. my "character" or "avatar" in the room is also kind of smoky at times, but i can't tell if this is just from me being new, the "tinted glass", personal insecurity, or all three. it's also hard to tell if their limited actions are legitimate or if i'm just puppeting them around, once again because of the haze.

 

i would really appreciate some help or feedback. i'm sorry if i sound naive or like that one jpeg of patrick star drooling with a single sticking out tooth, but i'm deeply interested in this, and i really want to get it right. attached is the document i've been using to help communicate with, and establish, kris; it's an "error log" of sorts, lmao. i'd also appreciate some advice on tweaking my perception of kris to be more game-accurate; i do kind of worry about them not being who they or i want them to be, if that makes sense.

Document.rtf

[SpottedHope]

54 minutes ago, serenefish said:

i do kind of worry about them not being who they or i want them to be, if that makes sense.

If you aren't willing to let your tulpa deviate, you shouldn't be making a tulpa. It sounds like you want to have a relationship (platonic, non-platonic, doesn't matter) with a video game character, and not an actual dynamic person, which is what a tulpa is—or, at least, what they operate as. You cannot force a person not to change over time or grow through experiences, which is the entire point of making a tulpa. You yourself weren't the same person you were five years ago; your tulpa won't be the same person they were at their "birth", provided you go through with the tulpamancing process. So, even if your tulpa starts out as a perfect copy of said Deltarune character, you simply have no way of ensuring they will remain that way. In fact, I can guarantee they will not remain that way, as basically every tulpamancer that I have read progress reports from has recorded deviations within their tulpa's personality over time. I myself have a tulpa who started out as a literary character. He's nothing like his fictional selves; in fact, he gained awareness that they are simply literary tools without me having to work on it with him, and has had his own ideas on how to continue writing them. If that level of cognition is not something you can accept happening, I advise you to read about other people's experiences with having a tulpa/ lurking more. A single guide is not going to help much. 

Edited January 17 by SpottedHope

[serenefish]

Just now, SpottedHope said:

If you aren't willing to let your tulpa deviate, you shouldn't be making a tulpa. It sounds like you want to have a relationship (platonic, non-platonic, doesn't matter) with a video game character, and not an actual dynamic person, which is what a tulpa is—or, at least, what they operate as.

i guess that makes sense

i think i'm also happy with some interpretation of kris as they would exist through the lens of our world; could a tulpa fulfill that/function as a sort of "branching off" of the source material; my kris and the game's kris existing in parallel? sorry

[SpottedHope]

7 minutes ago, serenefish said:

i think i'm also happy with some interpretation of kris as they would exist through the lens of our world; could a tulpa fulfill that/function as a sort of "branching off" of the source material; my kris and the game's kris existing in parallel?

I don't see how that is any different than just writing an AU for a fictional character; a very common fanfiction practice, which once again leads me to the same point: this doesn't sound like you want to create an actual, living personality, it just sounds like you want an upgraded character chatbot. Which is fine, by the way, I am just saying that a tulpa is definitely not what that is; just as that is not the endpoint of an actual person, and that is not how they can continue to exist if you actually want them to have the depth of one—you can't have your cake and eat it too. There is nothing to be sorry about here. I just don't think tulpamancy is what you're looking for. You might benefit from looking into servitors or maybe soulbonds. Repressing your own unconscious processes (something that most people consider as the main "lifespark" required for a tulpa's independence & sentience) into a singular developmental line to go along with a fictional character is probably one of the very few ways that might mess with the process of creating a tulpa, as you're basically forcing your own mind to choke itself out.

A wise person who, unfortunately, isn't active here anymore, once made an incredibly important point: your brain is trained, through millions of years of biological and social evolution, to emulate and anticipate the layout of an entire tribe. Parents, enemies, friends, lovers, mentors, and more. It is quite likely this plays into how tulpas come about. Ask yourself if it feels right to package that away because you want to talk to a fictional character that isn't even of your own creation. 

[serenefish]

Just now, SpottedHope said:

I don't see how that is any different than just writing an AU for a fictional character;

no, no, i'm happy for them to grow and change, but i want kris as a definite base, if that's possible. if that still sounds naive, i'm interested in learning more about servitors and soulbonds; can you give me the sparknotes rundown? thank you so much for your time

[SpottedHope]

14 minutes ago, serenefish said:

no, no, i'm happy for them to grow and change, but i want kris as a definite base, if that's possible. if that still sounds naive, i'm interested in learning more about servitors and soulbonds; can you give me the sparknotes rundown? thank you so much for your time

 

You can look into more with these two links as starting steps, I believe. It's great you're considering deviation as a positive, but wanting it as a "definite base" still makes me think more soulbond/ fictionkin, which are effectively tulpas, but not really considered in the context of being a regular personality, with a much greater focus on the "living fictional character" aspect instead.

Edited January 17 by SpottedHope

[serenefish]

Just now, SpottedHope said:

but wanting it as a "definite base" still makes me think more soulbond/ fictionkin,

hmmmm

i don't really think that this is what i'm looking for. i'm happy either with kris being a complete wild card or much closer to what i initially envisioned, so i think there's basically no reason not to go ahead. if i really desperately want a soulbond, i can always create that later, but i don't think it's really worth dropping the development of something i want either way for something i'm unsure about. thank you so much for your time and resources though

 

do you think my problems with visualisation and communication are representative of me being on the wrong path, though? or are they normal for those starting out?

[Tewi]

4 hours ago, serenefish said:

it's also hard to tell if their limited actions are legitimate or if i'm just puppeting them around

The standard Deltarune experience /j

 

Don't worry about puppeting or parroting, they're intentional, optional techniques for starting out practicing having a tulpa for those who feel too locked out of their tulpas doing anything. Unsureness at the start is normal because you've only just started developing them, but doubt tells your brain "Not a tulpa, just me" while belief tells it "Yes, a separate person from me", directly affecting your/their progress, it's irrelevant how much it was "really" you or them. Thought of as independent, they will become so over time.

(I don't know what any old guides say, we tend not to recommend them as the community continued on to smooth out some concepts, including "accidental parroting" not even being a thing)

 

Anyways, technically, you can make a tulpa however you want. The only real difference in a soulbond and a standard tulpa is how you think about them, the techniques are all the same and so are the results. The experience is entirely shaped by what you believe it'll be like + your practice with the associated skills (visualization, vocality etc.) over time. Differing from the norms we establish here is okay if you know it's what you want instead, at the end of the day we're just trying to teach people how to make apparently-independent imaginary friends.

 

And yes, visualization is absolutely a mental muscle you can improve with practice. Do whatever exercises you like to improve it, with or without your tulpa, the more frequent/consistent the better. (Progress on mental muscles like visualization, dream recall, even tulpa vocal clarity all work like real muscles, building up over time and becoming hard to permanently lose/easier to reobtain the second time, but they do regress when not used as much (a little faster than physical muscles))

Edited January 17 by Tewi

[serenefish]

Just now, Tewi said:

visualization is absolutely a mental muscle you can improve with practice

wow thanks, that's very comforting. i do find myself having to "switch gear" when attempting to casually communicate with them (eg simply asking for their opinion on whatever i'm doing at the moment, and it's at those times that the "haze" is strongest, if that makes sense. the best visualisations occur when i'm in a fairly darkened room; then, i can see a kind of "glow" or "flashlight beam" emanating from their shirt. a technique that seems to work is turning on a lamp, waiting for the "glow" to appear, then slowly rotating my head towards the lamp with my eyes closed. the glow kind of spreads to the whole room then, and i can feel dust motes and birds outside. but thank you, your words are a great comfort. 

[ringgggg]

Wow, I really need to check out Abveion's guide sometime soon.

 

Also, cute kris

Edited January 18 by ringgggg