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Rationalistic Guide to Vocality.


reguile
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There is never a actual thing that tulpa can do which the host does not have to participate or cause. Imposition, possession, vocalization, etc, all require host input and control.

 

Oh thanks for telling me I had no idea, man, all my personal experiences must not exist or be anything because these few things we somehow know despite them not actually being things we know trump all. Funny how I've been here for a year and a half and haven't seen all this evidence you are talking about.

 

You're writing a guide about how to get a vocal tulpa. You think you should be making a guide about creating tulpas when you haven't even really managed to make a tulpa that's pretty independent and shit? I disagree with that, if you think it's a good idea. Writing a guide isn't the first thing you should be doing when you get a vocal tulpa. Getting vocal is one of the first steps, after that comes so much more. This is one of the mistakes the newbies coming in from IRC and such usually make, rushing and thinking they already know all they need to know about something when they've just scratched the surface.

 

Blindly believing isn't very smart or rational at all. Better edit your title.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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Waffles:

Let me quote my guide here.

"When you can hold the conflicting ideals of “I have a tulpa” and “my tulpa is likely a delusion” in your head at the same time, you gain all the benefits of having a tulpa with none of the drawbacks of not having any disconnect from the real functionings of the world."

 

Honestly, so far as I know the grammar issues are in typos, and other small issues such as not using apostrophes due to spell-check removing them or similar. This may be "bad", but I am sure a hundred times over that it could be far worse.

 

"Possession doesn't and, having switched, nothing does."

 

Are you telling me that when you switch you have no ability or control over the body in any form or way? That your tulpa acts entirely on it's own and can function exactly as a normal human being can?

 

"You know your "actual guide part" is steps and instructions, right? You know that's what a guide is, right?"

 

Let me quote my guide here again:

"These steps are only guidelines and in no way should be fully and totally followed as you would follow an instruction book. This is how the process went for myself, you may/can have a totally different experience"

 

Sands:

 

I have yet to talk to a person who has a tulpa that can act in a way that implies that the tulpa has to be independent. There are stories of people who say their tulpa are doing things in the wonderland while they are gone, or that their tulpa left for a while and came back, or that their tulpa randomly took control over their body and saved them from a car or something, sure, but not a single one of those implies that the tulpa is the one acting here. The mind is incredibly good at deluding itself and you can very easily feel as if your tulpa is acting entirely on it's own when it's not.

 

How often does your tulpa talk to you without you thinking about it at all? Have you ever switched, had your tulpa do something, and been awake and have seen the results of that action without ever remembering having any input in doing those things? etc.

 

"You think you should be making a guide about creating tulpas when you haven't even really managed to make a tulpa that's pretty independent and shit?"

 

Seeing that it's impossible unless you have schizophrenia... I'd say that I do think that. And my tulpa is perfectly capable of speaking, acting, heck, even remembered something I did one day, and I still will not call it independent.

 

"Writing a guide isn't the first thing you should be doing when you get a vocal tulpa. Getting vocal is one of the first steps, after that comes so much more."

 

We'll see, although if "so much more" is just imposition (imagining the form being in the real world), possession (learning to do the same thing with vocalization but with movement instead), or switching (i've got nothing here, aside just advanced posession), than I don't really honestly think there is "so much more".

 

"This is one of the mistakes the newbies coming in from IRC and such usually make, rushing and thinking they already know all they need to know about something when they've just scratched the surface."

 

I am but a noob, sniveling under your superior knowledge and experience. Your word is god and I can make no argument against you because of it.

 

I bow down.

 

"Blindly believing isn't very smart or rational at all. Better edit your title."

 

I don't blindly believe, I make conclusions from what I see and experience and then use those conclusions to make an assumption. That's the definition of rationalism.

 

"a belief or theory that opinions and actions should be based on reason and knowledge rather than on religious belief or emotional response."

 

 

 

Sorry about the quotes being so across the board, but using the in-built quote function is just something I don't have much practice with

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"When you can hold the conflicting ideals of “I have a tulpa” and “my tulpa is likely a delusion” in your head at the same time, you gain all the benefits of having a tulpa with none of the drawbacks of not having any disconnect from the real functionings of the world."

Well, I guess that passes. In that case I just don't agree with you. Those aren't conflicting ideals and you haven't supported your proposition that believing your tulpa is real is a bad thing.

 

 

Honestly, so far as I know the grammar issues are in typos, and other small issues such as not using apostrophes due to spell-check removing them or similar. This may be "bad", but I am sure a hundred times over that it could be far worse.

You haven't capitalised your 'I's, man, how is that justifiable?

 

 

Are you telling me that when you switch you have no ability or control over the body in any form or way? That your tulpa acts entirely on it's own and can function exactly as a normal human being can?

Yes.

 

 

Let me quote my guide here again:

"These steps are only guidelines and in no way should be fully and totally followed as you would follow an instruction book. This is how the process went for myself, you may/can have a totally different experience"

If that's what you meant by "not steps and instruction" then alright.

 

 

 

The rest may not be for me but

I have yet to talk to a person who has a tulpa that can act in a way that implies that the tulpa has to be independent. [...]

 

Seeing that it's impossible unless you have schizophrenia... I'd say that I do think that.

 

[...]

 

switching (i've got nothing here, aside just advanced posession)

Do your fucking research. You wonder why people are telling you to hang around before writing a guide? Maybe it has something to do with not knowing what switching is?

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Are you telling me that when you switch you have no ability or control over the body in any form or way? That your tulpa acts entirely on it's own and can function exactly as a normal human being can?

 

Yes, otherwise it's possession because you are still aware of the body. Switching requires you to ignore the physical senses and your physical body. Unlike what the redefined terms on the IRC try to make it seem...

 

How often does your tulpa talk to you without you thinking about it at all?

 

He often reminds me of things I am about to forget to buy because I'm too busy thinking about other things, and also he does tell me when he wants to do something if I'm too busy hogging the body and there was something he wanted to do. Not to mention all other things that aren't talking he does to get my attention from nowhere. Ever had someone not there touch you and startle you? Yeah. Didn't see that coming.

 

Have you ever switched

 

Yes.

 

had your tulpa do something

 

Uh, yes.

 

and been awake and have seen the results of that action without ever remembering having any input in doing those things? etc.

 

Yes.

 

 

You just don't get it, do you. So much progress is made once the tulpa is vocal. They grow so much, they get better at things, grow and learn and become something more. Something they weren't quite when they were still young and weak. And this is why you shouldn't be writing guides. It's not just imposition or possession or whatever you are doing after the first few vocal responses, it's when you truly can start to live a life together in a way where both can communicate easily to each other. And you don't even know about it. Yet.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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"Those aren't conflicting ideals and you haven't supported your proposition that believing your tulpa is real is a bad thing."

 

I do that. In the guide.

 

Parroting fears, tulpa going "out of control", people doing stupid things with their tulpa and making stupid drama out of it, there are plenty of issues that even if they aren't fixed by thinking tulpa are a delusion, are reduced.

 

I am in a bad habit of not doing that when I type "I've", I've done a find and replace to fix that.

 

My point was not that I was not giving steps and instructions, but instead that they are the steps in which I experienced creating a tulpa. I outline that pretty clearly when I say.

 

"These steps are only guidelines and in no way should be fully and totally followed as you would follow an instruction book. This is how the process went for myself, you may/can have a totally different experience"

 

"Do your fucking research. You wonder why people are telling you to hang around before writing a guide? Maybe it has something to do with not knowing what switching is?"

 

Switching is when the host and tulpa trade positions. What I was basically saying is that I have little explanation for how I would think real switching could be explained except it being an advanced version of what I say possession is caused by.

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Lemme explain. Possession, tulpa is in contol, okay good. Host is useless here and he or she can now learn how to ignore the physical body's senses. Once they can actually stop sensing everything, they can take on imaginary senses and the physical senses don't distract them, so the switch is complete. Enjoy.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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Parroting fears, tulpa going "out of control", people doing stupid things with their tulpa and making stupid drama out of it, there are plenty of issues that even if they aren't fixed by thinking tulpa are a delusion, are reduced.

Alright, but you haven't supported that proposition.

 

 

My point was not that I was not giving steps and instructions, but instead that they are the steps in which I experienced creating a tulpa. I outline that pretty clearly when I say.

 

"These steps are only guidelines and in no way should be fully and totally followed as you would follow an instruction book. This is how the process went for myself, you may/can have a totally different experience"

Yep, OK. The way you said it a few posts back confused me.

 

 

Switching is when the host and tulpa trade positions. What I was basically saying is that I have little explanation for how I would think real switching could be explained except it being an advanced version of what I say possession is caused by.

That doesn't make sense. Like Sands says, possession is controlling the body and switching is sensory dissociation (in a very broad sense). And besides, you seem (at least seemed, don't know about now) to think that there was no independence involved in switching which does indicate a lack of understanding.

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"He often reminds me of things I am about to forget to buy because I'm too busy thinking about other things, and also he does tell me when he wants to do something if I'm too busy hogging the body and there was something he wanted to do. Not to mention all other things that aren't talking he does to get my attention from nowhere. Ever had someone not there touch you and startle you? Yeah. Didn't see that coming."

 

You mean your tulpa reminds you of things when you are in the store buying things?

 

"attention from nowhere"

 

are you sure you did not have tulpa on your mind in any form or way during that time? Are you sure you don't think the expectation that your tulpa could be able to do that would cause you to think that it was a huge surprise when in reality you are ignoring or passing over when you actually did think of your tulpa?

 

I gave a single good example of a tulpa doing something while switched that the hosts sees when he/she unswitches which is verifiable. Unless that's happened to you, or something similar has happened to you than I can still very well say that your tulpa could very well not be as independent as you think.

 

And on reading a bit more it appears you have, and honestly there isn't much I can say because there is next to 0 information or description of the "yes".

 

" So much progress is made once the tulpa is vocal. They grow so much, they get better at things, grow and learn and become something more. Something they weren't quite when they were still young and weak. And this is why you shouldn't be writing guides."

 

I said this exact thing in the guide, not saying they grow so much, but instead saying that once the mind is able to accept the tulpa it become all about learning to delude yourself to greater and greater degrees so the tulpa can do more and more.

 

Second post:

 

Let me quote me again.

 

"Switching is when the host and tulpa trade positions. What I was basically saying is that I have little explanation for how I would think real switching could be explained except it being an advanced version of what I say possession is caused by."

 

I already described and said exactly what you did.

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You mean your tulpa reminds you of things when you are in the store buying things?

 

Yeah, and he does a thing I haven't really been managing to do by myself, I seem to be a huge scatterbrain and always forget something by myself. Years of going shopping and forgetting stuff, suddenly I got someone to help me. And it sure as hell helps me, but the point is, I'm busy thinking about something else. And that thinking is penetrated by him without me urging him to.

 

are you sure you did not have tulpa on your mind in any form or way during that time? Are you sure you don't think the expectation that your tulpa could be able to do that would cause you to think that it was a huge surprise when in reality you are ignoring or passing over when you actually did think of your tulpa?

 

Can I be sure that I wasn't ~~unconsciously~~ thinking of something? Of course I can't or else it would be conscious and I would know. No, when I start thinking about something, I really get into it and the rest of the world stops existing. If you can get through to me when I'm in a state like that, it's a small miracle.

 

I gave a single good example of a tulpa doing something while switched that the hosts sees when he/she unswitches which is verifiable.

 

You... Didn't? You asked if a tupper has done things without me knowing because he has been the body and I haven't watched, yes. You asked if I've seen that things have changed or whatever and I haven't done that myself, yes.

 

And on reading a bit more it appears you have, and honestly there isn't much I can say because there is next to 0 information or description of the "yes".

 

You asked a yes/no question.

 

I said this exact thing in the guide, not saying they grow so much, but instead saying that once the mind is able to accept the tulpa it become all about learning to delude yourself to greater and greater degrees so the tulpa can do more and more.

 

It's not about what you say in the guide. You say it without experiencing it. You don't know it for certain. You don't know what it actually is.

 

I already described and said exactly what you did.

 

You... Didn't?

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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So much getting ninja'd.

 

There are reasons I think would cause those issues.

 

Parroting: If the core of tulpa is delusoin, and a person doesn't know/think that is true, that it's obvious that the fear of parroting will be a huge thing to start with. Because the tulpa just won't reply, a person will either go infinite time without a tulpa, or eventually reply to themselves, and undergo parroting fears, parroting acceptance, and moving on.

 

Also it means that anyone who has a tulpa that is really rude annoying and typically "bad" is allowed to reflect on the host.

 

Everything else just stems from "if it's a delusion than I can control it, and things like a tulpa leaving or taking over aren't/shouldn't be possible".

 

"Like Sands says, possession is controlling the body and switching is sensory dissociation (in a very broad sense). And besides, you seem (at least seemed, don't know about now) to think that there was no independence involved in switching which does indicate a lack of understanding."

 

I'll be fair here when I say that the whole concept of switching does throw me in a bit of a loop. However, by the only way I can say it could occur, that being the host just learning to so well "ignore activities" that they can go so far as to ignore the fact that they are controling the body, the tulpa still isn't independent.

 

And i'll admit it does sound far-fetched to say that, but it also is far fetched to say that a host is able to do the things required to switch. Either way it's a particularly far fetched subject.

 

Second post:

---

Saying that it's something you can't do by yourself adds nothing, as it's entirely possible you are just getting better at remembering things.

 

I already said that you don't have to be urging your tulpa to do something for it to act, even if the tulpa isn't truly independent.

---

I did ask a yes or no question, and there is little I can reply to with that yes. I was simply stating a fact just as you were simply answering a yes/no question.

---

It's not what I say in the guide?

 

Yet again, i'll quote myself

 

"Training your brain to do more and more complex things with the tulpa is the number one most important thing here, and forcing will help you do this more than any other thing, although narration is never a negative.

 

Basically the goal at this step is to just cultivate and work up with your tulpa. You just

need to work on training your mind and really working to get your tulpa able to say more things and be more active without crossing the threshold into you saying “crap, did I think that?” Which seems to be the absolute number one issue for anyone with a tulpa."

 

That sounds like what I said, if I do say so myself. And I have experienced that, perhaps not to the extent of the tulpa becoming as advanced to wherever you are at, but I definitly have seen that sort of expansion post-mindset.

---

Yes I did.

 

"Switching is when the host and tulpa trade positions. What I was basically saying is that I have little explanation for how I would think real switching could be explained except it being an advanced version of what I say possession is caused by."

 

When I say switching is the host and tulpa trading position that implies that the host is no longer in control of the body and the tulpa is. That is nearly equal to what you said.

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