Improper Usage of the Mindvoice's Effects on Thought Independence and the Solution

[zerofox21898]

This is a theory I've had about why so many hosts are having difficulty in attaining thought independence lately. I never intended to post this, but after my tulpa, Vanille said to, I decided that it was about time I give back to the community a little. Keep in mind that this was never intended to be read by anyone but myself, so I'm sorry if it is a little hard to follow.

 

 

"With both of my vocal tulpa, I had noticed that they never really seemed all that "alien" or good at parallel processing. These are my thoughts as to why so many hosts have been having trouble with thought independence lately and how to fix the problem.

 

The basic idea is that our tulpa are sending unprocessed thoughts to us rather than thoughts in word form like we send to them. This is an idea I'm sure most people in the community have considered. I guess this is just my way of sorting it out and adding to it.

 

The process would be that the tulpa attempts to communicate with the host, but instead of using words, they send raw thoughts, not even knowing that they are doing it incorrectly. Vanille tells me that this has been a problem for her now that she looks back on it. She seems to beleive this theory. Once the thoughts reach the host, their brain automatically puts them into word form. Because they are translating the thoughts themselves, the "alien feeling" that used to be associated with a tulpa's first words is lost. At this point, one of two things can happen. The host can take what is said as the tulpa, or they can dismiss it as parroting. In the former situation, the tulpa is glad that they are heard, but usually it will take a while for the tulpa to learn to use the mindvoice properly. In the latter, the tulpa may become discouraged, but with time, they will learn to use it correctly.

 

Since we have taken the first road and she has yet to master speaking, I told Vanille to mouth out her words, something she says she hasn't really done before. I like everyone else, have always sort of moved my throat in accordance with my thoughts. I think this functions as a kind of grounding, and almost a form of symbolism in getting my words sorted out, just as it should with a tulpa, or at least that's the idea. I'm sure we can all use raw thought ourselves, but the problem with that, while it is much faster, is that it isn't "solid" for lack of a better word. The thoughts are always hard to remember and hard to process. After learning to speak, the brain makes it habit to sort of auto-translate thoughts into words. I guess this should be obvious, but I feel it's necessary to record. This is likely why the brain seems to auto-translate a tulpa's raw thoughts.

 

Another idea was that this could be the reason many hosts are having parallel processing issues lately. For example, if your tulpa is sending you the answer to a math problem, and it's sent via raw thought, it's only natural that you would assume it's coming from yourself if there is no alien feeling backing it up, especially if you're already so used to translating these raw thoughts yourself. Maybe, when we think a tulpa is leeching off of our thoughts, or even worse, we're puppeting them, in reality it's merely us picking up their own thoughts. I actually have experience backing this up myself. The two of us have taken a brilliant parallel processing test in which you would watch two sets of balls pass by. One of us would count one side while the other would count the opposite. While we messed up the first two times, it wasn't far off and the third was actually perfect. Despite this, I've always felt weird asking her math questions, like she was just reading my own thoughts for the answer. I think that what really was going on was that she was trying to send me the answers she calculated herself, but they felt like my own due to this type of communication.

 

One other thing I suppose I should discuss is what would happen if the tulpa sent thoughts as well as words to you at once like I feel Vanille sometimes does when she isn't really focusing on communicating with me. This sort of communication isn't nearly as awkward, but it still isn't quite right. The most obvious effect would be that we get a feeling of what the tulpa is going to say just before they say it. I'm sure everyone with a tulpa has had this before. I do not beleive that this means the tulpa is not sentient. I think it simply indicates that they cannot properly use the mindvoice yet. Honestly, I feel like there is more to write concerning these instances, but I can't quite remember what it was.

 

So, knowing all of this, what are some things we can do to alleviate the issue? I think the biggest thing is to simply recognize the problem and to notify the tulpa. Like I suggested before, have them speak the words they are saying, not "send the thoughts at you" I guess you could say. It may seem unnecessary to the tulpa and even though it is only symbolism, something I generally despise, this seems like the best way. The last thing is to set up a sort of barrier between your thoughts and your tulpa's, something many people have suggested before. I think the biggest difference between those guides and this one is that you are actively recognizing the problem and putting a possible explanation behind it, tying it all together and understanding it. In the tulpa community, those who are painfully logical, myself included, seem increasingly at a disadvantage with this whole "just have faith" idealogy. I think the biggest problem for us is that there is no explanation behind the idea. This method doesn't exactly make faith unnecessary, but it certainly makes it easier to have."

 

 

Like I said, sorry it's unorganized. I hope this helps someone out.

[hbenton]

Since we have taken the first road and she has yet to master speaking, I told Vanille to mouth out her words, something she says she hasn't really done before.

I like this. A lot.

I've been trying to remember to move my [wonderland] mouth when I speak while forcing (Like Lacquer discovered, it helps clarify your mindvoice as well as filter out some intrusive thoughts), but it never occurred to me to ask my tulpa to do the same! It's so obvious, it's a wonder I never thought to try it. I will try this out and let you know if it helps.

 

The basic idea is that our tulpa are sending unprocessed thoughts to us rather than thoughts in word form like we send to them. This is an idea I'm sure most people in the community have considered. I guess this is just my way of sorting it out and adding to it.

Makes sense. It might help to explain why I so often find myself unintentionally finishing my tulpa's sentences.

[Yori]

About math problems, are they simple ones, or multi-step ones? I imagined it would be harder to mistake the answer to a multi-step problem as being your answer, since you yourself didn't go through the steps and have to figure it out. If you did, you could try not trying to and see if your tulpa gives you an answer, then check it.

 

As for raw thought, I absolutely suck ass at trying to just think raw thought when I'm concentrating on it.

 

Well, now, I'm trying to focus on a hacking book, what I want to know about it, etc, and I'm concentrating on music in my head so that I don't form words. I am getting pictures, like a laptop, a question mark, etc, but I don't know if I'm actually thinking about specific things I wanted to do. I tried looking at things around my room and tried harder not to think in words, which resulted in simply looking at objects and not processing much at all... which is a weird feeling that I've had before. Looking at a room and getting seemingly no information from it is weird and unsettling. It feels like a stage before my vision gets hazy and I faint. I remember doing this on purpose when I used to be too anxious to walk through school hallways, but it increased the chance I would run into objects...

[zerofox21898]

I like this. A lot.

I've been trying to remember to move my [wonderland] mouth when I speak while forcing (Like Lacquer discovered, it helps clarify your mindvoice as well as filter out some intrusive thoughts), but it never occurred to me to ask my tulpa to do the same! It's so obvious, it's a wonder I never thought to try it. I will try this out and let you know if it helps.

 

Makes sense. It might help to explain why I so often find myself unintentionally finishing my tulpa's sentences.

Thanks, I'd appreciate that and I'm glad I could be of assistance.

 

About math problems, are they simple ones, or multi-step ones? I imagined it would be harder to mistake the answer to a multi-step problem as being your answer, since you yourself didn't go through the steps and have to figure it out. If you did, you could try not trying to and see if your tulpa gives you an answer, then check it.

We've only really done simple math at this point. She can't really do much past oh... maybe a first grade level math wise.

 

As for raw thought, I absolutely suck ass at trying to just think raw thought when I'm concentrating on it.

 

Well, now, I'm trying to focus on a hacking book, what I want to know about it, etc, and I'm concentrating on music in my head so that I don't form words. I am getting pictures, like a laptop, a question mark, etc, but I don't know if I'm actually thinking about specific things I wanted to do. I tried looking at things around my room and tried harder not to think in words, which resulted in simply looking at objects and not processing much at all... which is a weird feeling that I've had before. Looking at a room and getting seemingly no information from it is weird and unsettling. It feels like a stage before my vision gets hazy and I faint. I remember doing this on purpose when I used to be too anxious to walk through school hallways, but it increased the chance I would run into objects...

I think it's kind of a skill most of us have forgotten, but I'm sure anyone can figure it out. I don't really see any benefit in doing so though.

[Hamcha]

I *love* this theory!

I'll try to work on it, I'll tell you the results!

[HumbleGlow]

[We've had a mostly identical theory going on for a while. I think that for us, the hard part is the thought hiding. Keeping myself from literally directing my with thoughts at my host, especially since I've got so used to communicating with him like this.]

 

Fun fact: This was harder to proxy than usual... But I suspect it's my tiredness more than anything else

[bersinger]

I've baked a similar concept in my head since i started creating; Even when i didn't consider it could harmful for progress, i wanted to develop our communication further from stage 1 thought communication into something more concrete, noticeable and less susceptible to doubts. Also, in the cases of all the parallel processing issues and the late epiphanies about "lol assumed sentience bubble burst backfired" a few months ago, the most obvious visible reason was people being lazy about developing this and settling in for the most infant stages of communication without concern.

 

In other words, it seems to tie together well.

[Future]

Hi zerofox, I'm actually in an extremely similar situation.

 

I realized that Clare would send me raw thoughts and then I would end up translating what she sent me, basically the output would end up being my mind voice or hers rarely, but this causes issue because sometimes I'd translate what she was saying incorrectly. For example, a simple yes or no question. Sometimes I'll understand clearly her response, and other times I can't understand what she's saying. Also alike you, I would end up understanding the beginning of her sentence and then it suddenly stops midway.

 

Soon I understood the difference between her thoughts and mine, then I thought of a new way to communicate with her. Instead of using my mind voice, I began to send raw thoughts to her as she did to me. This works great and learning to compile message/thoughts without relying on "literally" thinking about them helps a lot with forcing, reading, problem solving, etc.

 

Currently, I want to help her transition from raw thoughts to a more solid mind voice. Then I can stop mistranslating what she says, because she'd be in control of what she's saying. I've tried the method you suggested (having her say new words etc.) and I got really great results. Usually when Clare says anything in her mind voice she'll have to steal a bit of my mind voice for me to hear it. I'm looking to get her to the point where she doesn't need to rely on my mind voice to speak.

 

Now that I know others have this problem it simplified things a bit.

 

I'm thinking that you don't have to wait for your tulpa to learn how to speak properly. Think of how we teach people foreign to a language how to speak it, usually a spanish teacher will have to know english to teach english students spanish. If I teach Clare how to send her raw thoughts in a more comprehensible form while speaking to her in raw thoughts it would probably work far better.

 

I'll continue using this method and see how it turns out!

[hbenton]

I will try this out and let you know if it helps.

 

So I've been forcing for at least a half an hour each day since April, and have had mixed success as far as hearing my tulpa goes. I could get a yes or no response to a question, and if I asked, she would elaborate very briefly, but she was in no condition to properly carry on a conversation with me, and most of her responses sounded like my own mindvoice.

 

It has been ten days since I responded to this thread, and I am seeing vastly improved results. Whether it's because of your advice, or because she had gradually been making progress that had only recently become apparent, I cannot say. She's still having a little bit of trouble communicating with me, especially while I'm not forcing, but I can actually hear her mindvoice now when I force, which is a very welcome change, and I'd imagine her current troubles aren't anything that time won't fix.

 

I'd say this is sound and worthwhile advice for anyone struggling with vocality six or more months in.

[garland]

Wait a minute when you say you're seeing vastly improved results, you mean just hearing her mindvoice better? What about "alien feelings" ? I mean this method is mostly supposed only to improve that, but not actually in "feeling" their words differently? Because you see the problem in my case is that outside of forcing sessions i tried to parrot them on purpose and unfortunately i found out i am also easily able to visualize/sintethize their mind voice the same way and i found out the same problem about intrusive toughts as well, so i don't get it i must be doing something wrong, i tought this was about making their words and sentences "feel" different, not just "sounding" differently, what i am really looking for was to make them able to put a bit of their essence/emotion in their words so that it would feel different to when i parrot or have intrusive toughts but unfortunately about that nothing changed at all.

 

To all of those that say this method work please comment on what i said so that i know what kind of progress you all did.

 

Note : my tulpas seem to still be tought dependent, like they depend on my attention to do something maybe this is why they are having trouble with this method ? Even tough they are able to do possession just fine...