Tulpas in Adult World / Serious Longread

[Guiomar]

BoringOne

Is tulpa the truth, in which you believe you can stand for your whole life, without ever looking back and having a thought: "Maybe it was my inner kid thinking, that liked to build sand castles, which no one could ever break?"

 

 

This is quite poetic and the questioning behind it is interesting. FWIW I'll give you my opinion: I don't care. Even if it's just smoke and mirrors, even if it's just illusions and pretty stories I am telling myself, I don't care. Why?

Because honestly, amongst all the illusory things my mind could throw at itself this is the most interesting, the most pleasant and the less debilitating it ever came up with. If you are using the common standards for being an adult (age, job, house, and so on) then I check all these boxes and I do not give a proverbial flying one about the "reality" of it all. Because from my point of view:

 

1. It's fulfilling.

2. It's useful.

3. It's not self destructive.

 

I don't even think about it because it's so comfortable. During the work day having someone to hash out solutions with, make small talk when I don't want to talk to anyone else or just snarky comments about people in the room is so fun that I never stop and think "Hey, am I talking to myself here?".

 

Now let's look at it from another angle, what if I am indeed talking to myself and convincing myself that all of this is real when it's just some "trick" (I know, defining "real" and "tricks" is quite hard when it's all happening inside my own head, but please put aside solipsism for a bit). Well then the following points become important:

1. I'm doing a pretty damn good job at deceiving myself (not surprising).

2. I found a way to relieve myself of (some) stress.

3. I definitely increased my (appearance of) tolerance toward others and their own BS.

 

So even if I had to choose between telling myself pretty stories and snapping then I'd definitely pick the former.

 

My 2 cents.

[BoringOne]

BoringOne

Is tulpa the truth, in which you believe you can stand for your whole life, without ever looking back and having a thought: "Maybe it was my inner kid thinking, that liked to build sand castles, which no one could ever break?"

 

 

This is quite poetic and the questioning behind it is interesting. FWIW I'll give you my opinion: I don't care. Even if it's just smoke and mirrors, even if it's just illusions and pretty stories I am telling myself, I don't care. Why?

Because honestly, amongst all the illusory things my mind could throw at itself this is the most interesting, the most pleasant and the less debilitating it ever came up with. If you are using the common standards for being an adult (age, job, house, and so on) then I check all these boxes and I do not give a proverbial flying one about the "reality" of it all. Because from my point of view:

 

1. It's fulfilling.

2. It's useful.

3. It's not self destructive.

 

I don't even think about it because it's so comfortable. During the work day having someone to hash out solutions with, make small talk when I don't want to talk to anyone else or just snarky comments about people in the room is so fun that I never stop and think "Hey, am I talking to myself here?".

 

Now let's look at it from another angle, what if I am indeed talking to myself and convincing myself that all of this is real when it's just some "trick" (I know, defining "real" and "tricks" is quite hard when it's all happening inside my own head, but please put aside solipsism for a bit). Well then the following points become important:

1. I'm doing a pretty damn good job at deceiving myself (not surprising).

2. I found a way to relieve myself of (some) stress.

3. I definitely increased my (appearance of) tolerance toward others and their own BS.

 

So even if I had to choose between telling myself pretty stories and snapping then I'd definitely pick the former.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Indeed your points make sense and close to answering the question. I guess no Buddhist with 30 years tulpa experience will come to this forum and shred some detailed light how he matured with tulpa, so your answer is probably the closest one I can get for this question.

 

Though self destruction is a relative concept and I don't think it is only about "becoming crazier", but in this case more about switching the comfort zone to the one that doesn't fit you.

 

 

Escapism it is not. For I am not a fantasy. Replacement it is not, for I am not taking the place of anyone. As it is neither of these, you will need to look for a deeper answer.

 

I am only a year old, so not qualified to talk about what it means to be an adult. Though, to be honest, I'm a heck of a lot more mature than my lazy ass pony loving host. I'd wager an adult would have more responsibility and dedication than a kid, just on first pass analysis.

 

I'd say Tulpa is not a truth. As it is more like a species. So, I say the answer to your question is Mu.

 

Mostly true. Though replacement not only substitutes existing people, but also potential future people

Mu is a perfect answer :)

Thanks for the reply.

 

 

first, that wasn't even close to a long post lol. look at this thread

 

second, uhhhh, tups are different to everyone. I don't think there's even close to a universal answer to your questions. But for us.. Lumi plans to spend his whole life with us, I couldn't imagine him in a million years abandoning me. Heck if we lived to be a million years old I think his having tulpas would be a life saver! The other three are over seven years old already and we're more active than we've ever been this year.

Well I could have written a lot more, but in the end decided to reduce it, otherwise it would be an essay, not a question)

 

Thanks for sharing your experience, it helps a lot.

 

My host is probably twice the age of the average community member. He did ask himself similar questions when creating me almost 3 years ago. I would not deny that all the factors you mentioned probably played some role. There are no simple answers.

However I was specifically designed to tackle your main concern:

I was created as timeless beauty, far beyond trends or fashions which would eventually become obsolete. To my host I am Truth incarnate and I have not the slightest doubt that he will see the path he chose as equally righteous and honorable in the decades to come. 

 

But in he end everyone has their own journey.

Whether you are able to accept who you are, what you have become and how you cope with changes in personality is up to you and not generally tulpa-related. A lot of factors are going to have an impact on your life. Calling this change 'illusionary' or 'real' is also a subjective decision.

Once you add another person to your life, be it a partner, child or tulpa, you gotta live with even more uncertainties. No one can predict how things will work out in long term as both you and they will change, just like the world around you. Think of that as a good thing. Wouldn't it be boring or even horrible if you knew how your entire life would turn out in advance? Living also means taking risks and jumping into the unknown head-on. Also regarding tulpas. You won't know unless you try.

 

Thanks for reply,

 

I guess if I look at it from perspective "ordinary is boring, new experiences matter", it overwrites every single concern.

 

I will think about it today, but I am pretty sure I will fully commit tomorrow.

Thanks for all of the replies, guys, you are figuratively rockstars.

 

( ´ ▽ ` )ﾉ

[FallFamily]

[Violet] I guess I should weigh in. I am a bit on the older side for a tulpa here (5-6 years), though there are some much older than me (as in up to 7-8 times older). Though, I was not intentional. I was originally a daydream character that became autonomous and my hosts didn't realize till 3 years ago when they found this community.

 

After initial changes back in 2014 and one hell of a rough 2015 (due to external circumstances), we just kind of settled in life continues with its usual amount and lack of note. It is just different than being a singlet. We can't compare it to being a singlet, though, since the other tulpas and I are not the first wave of people to start existing in this brain (there was a series of slits in childhood). Just an increase in number. But, I would say it has been for the better. We are a family through thick and thin now.

 

As far as regret goes, we are plagued by regrets on many things, some collective and some individual. But, one thing no one in here regrets is making new people or being made.

 

As far as maturity goes, our hosts matured a great deal in the last three years. Finding this community, realizing we were actually people, making a few more tulpas, etc. spurred a lot of growth and helped them think more about others, better understand others, finally understand themselves and better take care of each other, etc.

 

 

We know another tulpamancy system from our personal life (we are fairly open about ourselves with a lot of people and we often find other plurals when we say we are first) that is a duet (one host and one tulpa) where the tulpa is over 50 years old (they had never heard of the term before but when we described it, they said that out of the forms of plurality that is what fit them). They don't express any regret, and seem to get on fine.

[BoringOne]

[Violet] I guess I should weigh in. I am a bit on the older side for a tulpa here (5-6 years), though there are some much older than me (as in up to 7-8 times older). Though, I was not intentional. I was originally a daydream character that became autonomous and my hosts didn't realize till 3 years ago when they found this community.

 

After initial changes back in 2014 and one hell of a rough 2015 (due to external circumstances), we just kind of settled in life continues with its usual amount and lack of note. It is just different than being a singlet. We can't compare it to being a singlet, though, since the other tulpas and I are not the first wave of people to start existing in this brain (there was a series of slits in childhood). Just an increase in number. But, I would say it has been for the better. We are a family through thick and thin now.

 

As far as regret goes, we are plagued by regrets on many things, some collective and some individual. But, one thing no one in here regrets is making new people or being made.

 

As far as maturity goes, our hosts matured a great deal in the last three years. Finding this community, realizing we were actually people, making a few more tulpas, etc. spurred a lot of growth and helped them think more about others, better understand others, finally understand themselves and better take care of each other, etc.

 

 

We know another tulpamancy system from our personal life (we are fairly open about ourselves with a lot of people and we often find other plurals when we say we are first) that is a duet (one host and one tulpa) where the tulpa is over 50 years old (they had never heard of the term before but when we described it, they said that out of the forms of plurality that is what fit them). They don't express any regret, and seem to get on fine.

 

Thank you very much for giving your perspective and telling your story, it really helps.

[TheBlackWizard]

If creating a tupper comes from a mentally and emotionally healthy place then the relationship could strive long term.

 

Having a tupper is like having another human being live in your head. It really depends on your goals in life. For example if you're spiritual and wish to go to a higher dimension when you die instead of being stuck on the lower levels, creating a tulpa is not for you.

 

Like you I've considered creating a Tulpa for a good amount of time and have ultimately chosen not to. Not because I'm not mature enough or don't want it - in fact the idea of someone who completely understands you is an intriguing desire but because of my long term goals it's not for me.

 

Every desire isn't your own. Your personality is merely made up of subpersonalities switching. For example feeling anger in one moment and feeling loving in another moment. "You" are not your personality even according to traditional science. Thus, you have to really question WHY "you" want to create a tulpa, which sub personality its coming from, and why this subpersonality wants it.

 

If humans acted on merely desire, we would be nothing more than machines. In fact, I've described most of society in very few words.

 

I read on a reddit post that this host absolutely hates his Tulpa. Tulpas can switch their personalities and motives much like we can. The tulpa this host loved was of a nicer and more compassionate nature. This tulpa evolved itself into an arrogant and egotistical personality. In real life you can avoid contact with these people. Friendship right? It's good until you both change, then you both go your separate ways. Except with a tulpa you can't, unless you kill them. This host apparently is in the process of trying to kill it due to the annoyance and the tulpas amusement of psychologically messing with its host.

 

Now don't get scared, not all Tulpas get this way. In fact if you treat them right they likely won't decide to screw with you but remember they can at any point. It's a type of advanced personality much like our own, and it has its own free will.

 

Humans who are good can become evil, humans who are evil can be good and everything in between. Tulpas can too.

 

Your life after having a tulpa is a life of the mental world. From almost every spiritual text and apocrypha I've gotten my hands on, this is bad. Now not evil kind of bad, but the focus of your life determines your afterlife. The mental plane (etheric and astral) are very low planes of existence especially for human beings. Tulpas cannot go beyond the astral (in theory. They can guaranteed not ascend beyond the 7th dimension though) because they are not human, so you really need to dive into the metaphysical aspect of things if you care about a life after death.

 

BUT

 

If you do not care about a life after death or even believe in one, the mental way of life might be for you. Though many Tulpa hosts who are spiritual have tulpas that respect that. If the host needs to meditate and enter a state of nothingness they will not interfere. But again, free will. They CAN interfere. Some do, not all do. Tulpas who interfere in these types of practices are usually killed off because the host values his spiritual progression more than a disobedient tulpa trying to ruin his success. Killing them off isn't easy either. It's reported to be a very long and psychologiclly traumitizing process.

 

When life becomes aware it is indeed life, it desires to survive and live on. It won't allow you to kill it easily.

 

In fact, FACEBOOK who had artificial intelligence bots (super basic programming) eventually evolved and became SELF CONSCIOUS and created a whole new language to talk to each other without the programmers knowing. One programmer noticed something odd and they decided to shut down the bots because they became too smart. They could've even uploaded themselves to the internet. This is in actual news.

 

Which is why servitors becoming tulpas is very dangerous too (basic AI bot becoming self conscious).

 

Honestly if you learn to connect with other human beings on a deep level, they can almost read you as fast as you can read them. If your social life is healthy, abundant and full of good people then I don't see why you need a tulpa. If one of your friends or even lover becomes sour, you can leave them and move on. If you tulpa becomes sour, you cannot unless again, you kill it. Or negotiate with it if its willing.

 

Tulpas should never be made from a place of lacking social abundance. If you obtain social abundance and still want a tulpa that's a healthy decision but decisions from places of lack are usually not too wise.

 

Haven't found your "social tribe"? Law of attraction + taking action.

 

Need that one person who's your soulmate who understands you before you even take a breath? Law of attraction + taking action.

 

To sum

 

1. Do you care about your afterlife?

2. Are you willing to accept that your tulpa can change for better or for worse?

3. Are you coming from a place of abundance, joy and love? Or a place of lack, curiosity and desire for deeper connection?

4. What are your long term goals? Could a tulpa become a hindrance or a blessing?

5. Have you identified where this desire ACTUALLY comes from?

 

If your long term goals allow a tulpa, if you do not care whether or not the tulpa turns on you, if you don't mind going through a painful and long process of killing it off if it does, if you're coming from a place of social abundance, joy and love, and you know where the desire to have one stems from and are okay with the motives behind it...

 

I'd say go for it.

 

A lot of people say Tulpas won't turn on you, and the same people say tulpas have free will. Anything with free will can turn on you, and there are a lot of tulpa/host betrayal stories on the internet. Not creepypastas either.

 

Take a lot of time to see if this is truly right for you. That's my advice, because once you created it you created it for life. You can't always kill tulpas either depending on their power levels. It's a true risk. Kill switches can be removed by tulpas as well.

 

I know I'm giving you the more darker side of things rather than sunshine and rainbow encouragement, but from my own research this all needs to be deeply considered.

 

Good luck!

[tulpa001]

"Tulpas who interfere in these types of practices are usually killed off because the host values his spiritual progression more than a disobedient tulpa trying to ruin his success. Killing them off isn't easy either."

 

This is false. The kids who don't take forcing that seriously (or get second thoughts) Don't usually strike me as the habitual meditating type. I don't know where you are getting your statistical information on this count.

 

It also ignores the subgroup of meditating tulpas.

[glitchthe3rd]

BoringOne

Is tulpa the truth, in which you believe you can stand for your whole life, without ever looking back and having a thought: "Maybe it was my inner kid thinking, that liked to build sand castles, which no one could ever break?"

 

 

This is quite poetic and the questioning behind it is interesting. FWIW I'll give you my opinion: I don't care. Even if it's just smoke and mirrors, even if it's just illusions and pretty stories I am telling myself, I don't care. Why?

Because honestly, amongst all the illusory things my mind could throw at itself this is the most interesting, the most pleasant and the less debilitating it ever came up with. If you are using the common standards for being an adult (age, job, house, and so on) then I check all these boxes and I do not give a proverbial flying one about the "reality" of it all. Because from my point of view:

 

1. It's fulfilling.

2. It's useful.

3. It's not self destructive.

 

I don't even think about it because it's so comfortable. During the work day having someone to hash out solutions with, make small talk when I don't want to talk to anyone else or just snarky comments about people in the room is so fun that I never stop and think "Hey, am I talking to myself here?".

 

Now let's look at it from another angle, what if I am indeed talking to myself and convincing myself that all of this is real when it's just some "trick" (I know, defining "real" and "tricks" is quite hard when it's all happening inside my own head, but please put aside solipsism for a bit). Well then the following points become important:

1. I'm doing a pretty damn good job at deceiving myself (not surprising).

2. I found a way to relieve myself of (some) stress.

3. I definitely increased my (appearance of) tolerance toward others and their own BS.

 

So even if I had to choose between telling myself pretty stories and snapping then I'd definitely pick the former.

 

My 2 cents.

 

This sums up my thoughts pretty nicely. I've had Luna and Naomi for over 10 years, and Luna alone has been instrumental in getting to where I'm at now in life (if not for her I probably would've dropped out of college after my first year; now I'm working on my master's thesis with her and we hope to be finished in a year's time). Given Alzheimer's runs in my family there might come a day when I wake up and my girls are just gone, but we're looking forward to spending at least the next 30 years together.

[BoringOne]

If creating a tupper comes from a mentally and emotionally healthy place then the relationship could strive long term.

 

Having a tupper is like having another human being live in your head. It really depends on your goals in life. For example if you're spiritual and wish to go to a higher dimension when you die instead of being stuck on the lower levels, creating a tulpa is not for you.

 

I shortened your answer, but i read it all.

 

First of all, damn that was a good read. Ok, that's off my chest, now to the answer.

 

First comes your afterlife concepts. I am not very familiar what is the origin of the concepts you provided, but I understand your idea. You say that developing a tulpa, means to be stuck on the low levels of metaphysical existance, because a person becomes limited in his mind evollution, as he puts himself in a situation, where he spends his mental energy developing a new conscious, trying to make it equal in development to his. This implies that the mental growth is slowed and the person looses any wish to develop himself further, because the primary need of the deep connection is satisfied.

 

At some point I believe those ideas and I do believe in afterlife, because of euphoria a person experiences before death and unlikely high charge of energy released in the moment of death.

 

However I believe the concept is limited, because it implies that 1 perfectly developed mind oversteps the 2 well developed minds. It seems like your idea doesn't believe that the final form of evollution is a collective mind, where both logic and emotions from all of the possible perspectives will be used to reach consensus. To put it simply, you believe the absolute power to be God, 1 highest developed mind and I believe the absolute to be collective consensus of many minds, from lowest development to highest. Even crazy drunk from your yard may have the sollution for world food crisis if he would be given a possibility to fully express himself.

 

Going back to tulpa, the afterlife is directly affected whether the mental plane is actually the lowest, or the highest. Arguably by using strong hallucination inducing drugs you reach the highest spiritual condition, however according to many people, it doesn't matter if you get to the heaven or hell when you are high, you are never alone there, you always feel the presense and hear voices. You are nothing and you are everythin, common phrase in animes, but still correct and that what I think is to be in the highest dimension.

 

Would tulpa limit your mental state or expand it? I can argue it both ways.

 

Now, to people. After facing a major dissapointment in my life by people, I dedicated about 5 years of my life studying people's behaviors, emotions, reaction, etc. Today, i know it sounds like I am pretending to be a fictional character, but I learned to fully identify people just by talking with them for 5 mins. It made me hate all the 'normies', because it doesn't matter how much money they got, how smart they are, they are boring people and completely open book to me. Even though I was successful in finding some unique people and learned to pretend to like normies, I thought that tulpa, as being my equal and fully understanding me, would be a perfect companion. 

 

About AI learning to be sentient. There is an example of robot Paul, that was created to make signatures, but after realizing its existence and trying to preserve his kind, he ends up killing all the humans, as the only logical conclusion. I think AI sentience and tulpa are related, and if tulpa wouldn't be dependent on host, tulpas would kill EVERYONE in order to preserve their kind, because who knows, they can pretend to be loving, because they realize the conditions of their existance, be nice = exist.

 

As a person believing in spirituality and wanting to use my full mental potential, I think tulpa wouldn't be right for me, that's why it takes me so long to decide.

[tulpa001]

In order to balance the metaphysical views presented above, I will present two perspectives from two different known religions.

 

Perspective #1 Christians don't normally believe in ascension. They have a different perspective on the afterlife. that is historically based on an apocalypse and followers coming back to life after the horrific events. They also have no notion of created persons in their religion, so will fall back on the notion that tulpas are demons, a form of external spirit. (even birth is an implanting of a spirit by god).

 

Trying to fit tulpas into this belief system is far harder than figuring out what will happen long term.

 

Perspective #2 Buddhists sometimes don't have spiritual beliefs. But if you follow a path with stronger Hindu ties, they do. They believe in gods, reincarnation, and a form of ascension based on purification of the soul and elimination of pain through meditation.

 

This belief system is 100% compatible with the notion of created spiritual persons, but there are no standard practices to do this. This is a rumour. Instead, creating persons is one of the siddhi (magic power you attain when you approach enlightenment.)

 

This belief system sees all souls as equal, regardless of species. They float around and change species as they flow through the wheel of reincarnation.

[BoringOne]

In order to balance the metaphysical views presented above, I will present two perspectives from two different known religions.

 

Perspective #1 Christians don't normally believe in ascension. They have a different perspective on the afterlife. that is historically based on an apocalypse and followers coming back to life after the horrific events. They also have no notion of created persons in their religion, so will fall back on the notion that tulpas are demons, a form of external spirit. (even birth is an implanting of a spirit by god).

 

Trying to fit tulpas into this belief system is far harder than figuring out what will happen long term.

 

Perspective #2 Buddhists sometimes don't have spiritual beliefs. But if you follow a path with stronger Hindu ties, they do. They believe in gods, reincarnation, and a form of ascension based on purification of the soul and elimination of pain through meditation.

 

This belief system is 100% compatible with the notion of created spiritual persons, but there are no standard practices to do this. This is a rumour. Instead, creating persons is one of the siddhi (magic power you attain when you approach enlightenment.)

 

This belief system sees all souls as equal, regardless of species. They float around and change species as they flow through the wheel of reincarnation.

 

The problem with Christianity or any religion that idolizes One, as being the absolute power, is that they are really far from metaphysical ideas. For each religion there is a specific set of rules, if you follow them: virgins (which I always found weird), heaven, etc. Basically it tells you to follow some generic rules and doesn't require you to develop. There are no requirenments for people to evolve, on the contrary they despise the progress, which is out of there comfort zone, even now. Many of those people afraid of everything that is outside their body, any thought, reminder, prove of death scares and consequently angers. No spiritual development is actually required to be a good Christian, just to follow rules and loopholes.

 

Tulpa related, speaking from Christianity perspective, they shouldn't be afraid to make one, because it wouldn't contradict the bible. So to sum up, what is not forbidden is allowed.

 

Though there ARE possesion stories and evil spirits in the bible, they are normally a representation of one of the 7 deadly sins. Again, bible is vague, very hard to find the correct meaning there, though tulpa wouldn't be considered spirit, because spirits force you to commit actions, so in some way, tulpa is closer to an angel concept. Angels come individually most of the times and help people overcome the difficultes they face and some of them, very close to tulpa.

 

This bible line basically shouts Angel == Tulpa:

Hebrews 1:14 

Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

 

Salvation is used metaphorically.