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Telling when you have a tulpa


reguile
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It's not perfect, but it's definitely getting better with each revision. Most of my quibbles at this point are minor writing style things. I do still feel like some of it was lost since the original version, but it seems I'm in the minority as far as that is concerned.

 

I wonder if the rest of the GAT has any thoughts.

 

I agree with you that some of it was lost, but that can wait for another time/guide.

 

I can look over it again for anything obvious about my writing, but is there anything specific you dislike?

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Well, I don't think there's nothing wrong with short chapters as the ease of finding information is quite important to me, but it's up to you of course. You did split it where I would have done it, so at least that's something. But let's look at some other minor things.

 

 

When is it that you really do have something that you can confidently state is a tulpa? When are you no longer parroting?

 

Why ask me when I'm no longer parroting? What if I'm not parroting or even feeling that I'm parroting, I just don't know how a legit response should feel like - which is what I believe your guide also addresses. I feel like this line almost implies like every method is based on parroting you grow out of. Is that what you believe?

 

 

So what is it you should do, when you reach this point where you aren’t quite sure where you are or where you are going? The answer to that question is nowhere.

 

The answer to "what I should do" is "nowhere"?

 

 

When you get to this point you should not shut down or shut out that little voice. Instead you should cater to that voice. Humor it.

 

Might be kind of a nitpick and I haven't pointed it out before even though it has existed, but here I feel like you might almost want to say that "I suggest you..." or something along those lines, just so it's obvious that every person making a tupper doesn't do it this way necessarily. Your tone of, uh, written voice kind of feels commanding, which to me usually reads as something bigger than you might have intended. So instead of "I think this" you sometimes come across as "this is how it is".

 

 

If you wish to express more of your ideas, I'd suggest creating a general discussion thread or try to write an article and bug someone enough about it so that it gets added. Fede for example also has very strong opinions of what a tupper is but his guide wasn't forcing it down our throats and many who didn't share his outlook also have used his methods (and tones). That's what you want, and your original version obviously wasn't it. I'm not sure if you can write a guide in the same manner, but you can write about it in non-guide fashion as well. Or instead write it in a "if you haven't liked what the other guys have said this far, how about you adopt this mindset and see if it works for you" manner rather than "this is right and everyone else is dumb".

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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A few things. Firstly, your title is weird (no shit). But I guess the first paragraph makes the purpose of the guide clear enough, so maybe there isn't a problem there.

 

 

Some threads speaks of tulpa sometimes as if they are simply other people, but in others speak of them as if there is hardly a distinguishing factor between the tulpa and the host.

 

This wording was confusing at first for me. Maybe it's just me but that second part almost reads like "as if there's no difference between a tulpa and another person" rather than "as if the tulpa sounds pretty much like the host".

 

 

As for what Sands said, I agree with the first and second things. The third, I can't really read that as commanding. As a writer he should really be able to say, "You should do this," and not come across as claiming to be divinely inspired by absolute truth.

 

 

So yeah, I guess fix up those things and I'd probably approve for Tips, if you still wanted it as a submission. I'd still like to hear what other people think though, since they've been strangely silent on it. That might be because you posted it discreetly at the end of the old thread rather than in a new one. I can split this off into a new thread if you want.

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I suggested him to post it into a new thread once he feels comfortable with that idea, so I assume he will without any unneeded splitting magic.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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I agree with you that some of it was lost, but that can wait for another time/guide.

 

I can look over it again for anything obvious about my writing, but is there anything specific you dislike?

 

Well, as I said, this is just minor stylistic quips, nothing to do with the actual content, so I wouldn't really ask you to fix it.

 

It's mostly that things are put in a rather indirect way. It's the difference between saying "You're a jerk." and "Well, I wouldn't exactly say that you're not a very mean person." The sentences are similar in meaning, but the indirect wording of the second sentence makes it seem like the speaker almost doesn't want to say what he's saying.

 

So, for example, with a sentence like "If you are resorting to a guide with a title such as this than you probably have seen a large number of other, commonly recommended, guides." I feel like you could make it even stronger by saying "If you are resorting to this guide, you must have already tried the popular guides."

 

Another reason to be more direct is that indirectness can actually change the meaning without you being aware of it. "A title is that which does not come to mind often." for example, is basically saying "Anything which does not come to mind often is a title." Whereas if you go the more direct way: "I can't think of a title", the meaning is clear.

 

There are lots of places in your guide where the writing could be a bit more direct.

 

Again, it's not a major issue.

"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson

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Might be kind of a nitpick and I haven't pointed it out before even though it has existed, but here I feel like you might almost want to say that "I suggest you..." or something along those lines, just so it's obvious that every person making a tupper doesn't do it this way necessarily. Your tone of, uh, written voice kind of feels commanding, which to me usually reads as something bigger than you might have intended. So instead of "I think this" you sometimes come across as "this is how it is".

 

 

If you wish to express more of your ideas, I'd suggest creating a general discussion thread or try to write an article and bug someone enough about it so that it gets added. Fede for example also has very strong opinions of what a tupper is but his guide wasn't forcing it down our throats and many who didn't share his outlook also have used his methods (and tones). That's what you want, and your original version obviously wasn't it. I'm not sure if you can write a guide in the same manner, but you can write about it in non-guide fashion as well. Or instead write it in a "if you haven't liked what the other guys have said this far, how about you adopt this mindset and see if it works for you" manner rather than "this is right and everyone else is dumb".

 

Honestly, I don't agree with the "commanding" thing. I have done quite a lot already to "dull the edges" of this guide, but I am not passing the point of putting "I think you should" before everything I say.

 

On the note of discussing views of tulpa, I tried to keep it out of this guide for a reason.

 

 

A few things. Firstly, your title is weird (no shit). But I guess the first paragraph makes the purpose of the guide clear enough, so maybe there isn't a problem there.

 

So yeah, I guess fix up those things and I'd probably approve for Tips, if you still wanted it as a submission. I'd still like to hear what other people think though, since they've been strangely silent on it. That might be because you posted it discreetly at the end of the old thread rather than in a new one. I can split this off into a new thread if you want.

 

Honestly, I just don't know a good title yet. I've changed it a few times already.

 

You can probably go ahead and do that. I have no idea as to the formalities of things around here, so if you want me to post my own new thread say so, but if a split is better, also say so. Honestly i'd rather be able to control the first post of a new thread.

 

 

Well, as I said, this is just minor stylistic quips, nothing to do with the actual content, so I wouldn't really ask you to fix it.

 

It's mostly that things are put in a rather indirect way. It's the difference between saying "You're a jerk." and "Well, I wouldn't exactly say that you're not a very mean person." The sentences are similar in meaning, but the indirect wording of the second sentence makes it seem like the speaker almost doesn't want to say what he's saying.

 

So, for example, with a sentence like "If you are resorting to a guide with a title such as this than you probably have seen a large number of other, commonly recommended, guides." I feel like you could make it even stronger by saying "If you are resorting to this guide, you must have already tried the popular guides."

 

Another reason to be more direct is that indirectness can actually change the meaning without you being aware of it. "A title is that which does not come to mind often." for example, is basically saying "Anything which does not come to mind often is a title." Whereas if you go the more direct way: "I can't think of a title", the meaning is clear.

 

There are lots of places in your guide where the writing could be a bit more direct.

 

Again, it's not a major issue.

 

This is actually very good criticism, will head through and look to try to revise that a bit. Then again, when re-reading, it is honestly kind of difficult to really make things more direct without making iffy statements. I tend to be an indirect person because I tend to like to give myeslf an "out". Almost always means that nobody can say "BUT I SAW!" in response to a thing. Same with saing "I think so" instead of "yes" or "I know so".

 

 

Anyways, tell me if this edition here is better or worse. I am not sure.

 

What you may call a tulpa:

 

If you are resorting to a guide with a title such as this than you are probably pretty familiar with the entire process of creating a tulpa. You know about how to make a personality, you know what forcing is, you know how to put yourself in a wonderland with relative ease. You have found that despite all this knowledge, despite hours of forcing, despite reading every scrap of information you can find, you really honestly aren't sure what to expect from a tulpa.

 

Alien feelings? A person whispering into your ear while you cross the street? The feeling of a walkie talkie? Some threads speak of tulpa as if they are simply other people, yet other threads speak of them as if there is hardly a distinguishing factor between the tulpa and the host. So what gives? When is it that you really do have something that you can confidently state is a tulpa? When are you or aren't you parroting?

 

Some who have tried to create a tulpa seem to do incredibly well with it. They are out talking about how talkative their tulpa is in the first week! Some take less than a few hours! It's obvious that you, the troubled reader of this guide, must be doing something horribly wrong, right? No.

 

Like all human efforts and questions, some things will just "click" for some people. Be it from prior experience, natural disposition, or just plain old peer pressure, some people hit the track running. You probably hit the track going about twenty miles an hour and with a broken leg. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, you can end up doing much better in the long run because of the foundation you are forced to build.

 

Not all tulpa through the community have voices that are even close to consistently alien/foreign feeling. Even some of the people who have been at this for quite a while have been known to have moments of doubt. The process of creating a tulpa is not something that is just accomplished through an hour of forcing. Outside of certain “breakthrough” moments that drive you to new prospects, progress in the field of tulpa is incredibly gradual. Even If you may not be noticing any improvement, it is almost definitely there in some form. What you will get out of tulpa will be exactly what you put in combined with your own natural affinity, nothing more, nothing less.

 

___

 

The only thing you really can do at a stage like this is to just keep at the process that got you here. Do not shut down or shut out that little voice in your head. Cater to that voice. Humor it. Clearly, as you are wondering if some of your thoughts are those of your tulpa, something is going right. Continue to force, continue to develop the personality of your tulpa, continue to work on trying to think of your tulpa throughout the day. All of these things build and reinforce the idea in your head that a thought no longer is a simple, one dimensional thought. Instead, you create the idea that there is some identity, some personality, some tulpa, that can be doing the “thinking”. The stronger that identity, the easier and more often thoughts will be assigned to it.

 

What you are experiencing is the beginning of your ability to recognize and order a thought as being the thoughts of your tulpa rather than yourself. More often than not that thought will feel like its origin lies with you rather than a tulpa. That is absolutely normal and expected. For now, you are very likely bad at the process of ordering thoughts, and you are are almost definitely going to continue to screw up along the way.

 

You may find it helpful to spend some time just trying to recognize your own thought processes as you go throughout the day. It is amazing sometimes how quickly the mind can work, and if you pay a little more attention you may start to notice that you tend to think about two to five sentences worth of thoughts across the course of one normal language-based thought.

 

Learning to pay attention to this level of thinking is very helpful when dealing with doubt issues such as this. I wouldn’t so much recommend to attempt to endlessly be in control of every thought you make. However, being able to pay attention to that level of thought is often very good for assessing and realizing what trains of thought or mindsets lead to you feeling like your tulpa isn’t exactly not-you. Those trains of thought can be avoided while forcing for the sake of fostering progress, and then examined later on when you are not trying to actually communicate.

 

Overall you should expect that as you force the voice will become stronger. Along the line, there will be doubts. It is likely that you will never find a point at which you never have doubts of if what you heard was you or your tulpa. That is normal, that is expected. However, as time slowly passes, the doubts become less. You probably won't notice it at all after any single day, but you may just find that one day things “click” and it really feels like you are talking to a voice in your head.

 

You may even go so far as to call it a tulpa.

 

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Well yeah, I know you wanted to keep them out of this guide and I agree. You did, however, express interest in telling of your stronger views somewhere and you should have a place to do that too, if you really want to. Will it ever be a guide? I don't know, but you should probably use general discussion for it. Unless people have BULLIED you enough that you no longer want to talk about it or something, not going to force ya or anything. I think your approach here is good as you are also offering help to people who don't fit one narrow criteria of having an identical mindset to you.

 

I still find the line about asking our parroting weird and I almost feel like your original (when do you have this real tulpa) is much stronger. I guess you could still talk about it but not have it as the last question as it doesn't really have the oomph in my eyes.

 

I'm not entirely sure if this is a guide yet. There's some stuff that feels more of a guiding thing, but I guess you could also see it as a "pay more attention to your and your tulpa's thoughts to be able to tell them apart" tip. The stuff you write is good so I wouldn't just want to replace it with one sentence, but if I try to look for steps in here, it's a bit more difficult. I guess it would be like humor the voice you're unsure about and listen to it -> learn to recognize your own thought process so you can tell it apart from the tupper... And uh, I don't know where it goes from there or if I already took the wrong turn. I'm not sure if I'm being guided through or if I'm being given a helpful tip. I guess that might end up being interesting once the voting comes.

 

Anyways, I guess it's a good thing that most things that are issues now aren't even really issues. Not sure if I'm all that into this title yet, but hey, once you think you're done then I do suggest you post a new thread. There's no rule that you can't post more than once here after all and people probably don't need to see all this stuff. None of us have actually voted, so they would see our opinions once we do that, nothing is lost.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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I really like this as is. I say post it as a new thread and see what the rest of the GAT thinks, but I'd really like to see this in Tips.

"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson

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I'm going with what sushi said. Tips is fine.

[align=center]Even though my username is that of my tulpa, Quilten, my name is Phaneron, the host, who does all of the actual posting.

Tulpas: Quilten, Jira

[/align]

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I like this 'guide', and I agree with it. First of all I know a debate like this one from my time in The Daemon Forum. I'm sure those of you who are familiar with His Dark Materials will know that daemons are considered to be the embodiment of a person's soul that has been separated from the human's body.

I'll first state that your beliefs are yours, and mine are mine, so allow me to speak soundly.

 

From my experience; some daemians believed their daemons were in fact their souls, much in the same way as the first tulpamancers, I expect, believed their tulpas are completely sentient, and they are in fact another independant person that happens to reside in the host's body. When an idea is first formed, people romanticise it, glorify it, make it into something phenomenal when in fact it could be something far less impressive at second glance. At a more logical, more realistic approach, perhaps.

 

For me, any thoughtform is as real as you make them out to be. "What you believe in is real to you" is one of my all time favourite sayings. Tulpas are no different than the imaginary friends you used to play with and talk to as a child. Back then, they would have seemed very real to us. Also, I compare it with creating a fictional character for a story. You give them a form, a personality, a voice. In time, the more you practice engaging with that character, the easier it becomes to think like them, to know exactly what they would say, how they would react. That is ideally a tulpa, right? But I see it as something achieved through so much practice it has become almost instinct, so that's why it feels so real. Why the tulpa feels so real. You know them so well, they've become like a best friend.

 

And it is a wonderful experience, so wonderful it can be life-changing. Tulpas may very simply be delusions, as reguile said, but that does not take away their charm. It's a form of motivation, distraction; it's a hobby, an activity, an art. We can still appreciate them without dubbing them as 'independent, sentient beings' because they don't have to be viewed as that for them to be effective.

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