Camwoodstock

Is it okay to channel a developing tulpa?

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Note: I dunno if I'm using the wrong term, correct me if I am wrong.

 

I've seen some people here channel their Tulpas and allow them to state their thoughts on the forums; I dunno if that's okay for new, young, and developing tulpas, though. I'd assume it's okay, but I've heard younger tulpas are impressionable.


Host: Cam (that's me!)

Age: Keeping that disclosed.

Appearance: Keeping that disclosed, too.

 

Tulpa: Toree (we're still working on the name; i'm bad at names)

Age: At least 3 days old (made her a tulpa on December 3rd, 2015)

Appearance: An anthro Luxray from pokemon with red fur instead of blue. A bit on the chubby side, and also rather tall. Wears robes a lot.

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I'd say that it's probably better to wait until the tulpa has developed a decent bit before messing around with that.

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Steth: I don't think it'd be too bad. After all, Fade puppeted us all the time back when we were still developing, and we turned out fine! It probably held back our development a bit, though. Well, you could always wait a little bit, at least until they can give you a rough idea of what they'd want to say, or until they're vocal!

If they're vocal. Not every headmate's a talker! If they get autonomous, but not vocal, like Drewbie, then I guess that'd also be okay for proxying.

 

Fade: I think you should wait until they are expressing their own opinions.


[align=center]We are a soulbonding system with tulpamantic influences. Our "host" is Fade, and the general leader figure is Troy.

 

~ Fade, Medea, Stethen, Euryale, Jamie, Olive, Drewbie, Demetrius, Najere, Troy ~

 

Najere is being an (extremely charming) narcissist.

 

Olive is most adorable![/align]

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It's called "proxying" when your tulpa, unable to possess/switch, tells you what to type for them. Doing this with a tulpa that is not sentient or sapient or can't talk or whatever is basically just role playing what you want your tulpa to be. Now, I don't know what the current prevailing opinion of that sort of thing is, but my thoughts are that doing this while claiming it's your tulpa is deceptive, roleplaying in general is detrimental, and there is always the risk of making a servitor instead of a tulpa. Alternatively, if you make it very clear to those you are roleplaying with that this is a sort of experimental personality forcing, it could be interesting.

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People in the chat told me it's wrong, you should wait until your tulpa is fully autonomous. But honestly, I'm proxying Maja all the time, even though she's not 100% autonomous yet. And we feel like it's helping her developing more. It's like a form of forcing for us. Recently she even told me to shut up a few times, since she wanted to be in charge - I was only allowed to type whatever she told me. Hopefully we'll be able to switch soon, that'll make everything easier.


The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure, while always arriving.

 

Maja will either use name tags, [brackets] or this colour.

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It really depends. In our case I would say it was pretty helpful in her development that I let Alice loose on the forum during tulpa week, even though we still had a lot of trouble doing that. But you might end up being unsure about a lot of things your tulpa may want to say. As Lacquer pointed out you should be sure that your tulpa is sentient enough to do so, if you really want to let your tulpa participate.

 

Alice is vocal, but she likes to semi proxy me (or borrow parts of my brain to be exactly) for more complex answers on the forum. Afterwards she always confirms if it was really what she wanted to say.


Tulpa: Alice

Form: Realistic Humanoid/Demonic Creation

She may or may not talk here, depends on her.

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Some very different thoughts come to mind when I see the word "channel", at the very least, I would not use such a word to describe what I do with my own girls. I just ask them about something, and they answer.

 

This is a new thing for me, though. Before I rarely put them on here at all, and only had them mention things in more private thread like progress reports and my sketchbook. For the most part, my girls were detached from the community. While there are some reasons for this, some of them personal and some of them related to behavior in the community, it still remained that speaking to them about what I see in these parts is like telling about some strange, distant land that occasionally upset me. Soon, I wanted to share more of my life and normal habits with them, and that included my time here, and seeing other hosts and their partner do so inspired me to go and do the same.

 

That said, I would be a bit careful about where and when you do it. My girls can communicate with me rather well, and I trust that the comments they give are their own. Part of this comes from the fact that I go quiet and patiently wait for them to respond when I ask them something regarding the outside. Since I know most of the don't have experience in speaking outside, I give them time to sort their thoughts out, while I wait and suppress my own. This sort of thing is fine in a forum, where things are generally slow, but for an chatroom, it's much more difficult.

 

With the exception of my first partner Midori, many visits I had on the IRC where I put my girls front and center resulted in them becoming overloaded and confused at everything going on. As well, they occasionally ran in to some less than friendly comments directed toward me and how I regard them. While this is something I myself can brush aside with ease, as I am familiar with such things, the girls usually ended up either feeling hurt or confused. This is the result of me sheltering them, and let me tell you, the extent of my sheltering became clearer when someone cursed at one of mine, and having no clue what it meant, she asked me about it immediately after. While I have been testing the chatroom's waters with Sheryl, having her make small comments here and there while I'm still the main person out, I'm still rather careful with it.

 

Lacquer brought up the issue of people putting on companions who actually could not speak, or was actively having the words chosen for them by their host, and I'm inclined to agree with this idea. This may be because I was never a proponent for puppeting to begin with, but I especially find it odd to do it in public forum, it seems to undermine the entire idea of what the site is about. It seems to me to be better to wait patiently for the developing companion to choose their own words, but that's just how I do things I guess. At the very least, I would not suggest doing this at all on the chatroom. It's so fast paced and hectic that I figure that a person puppeting their companion there really is roleplaying in a direct sense, rather than developing their partner. As well, there are some particularly nasty developmental pitfalls there, and it's easy for the community and the things that go on in it to become more important than your budding partner. There are exceptions, as always, but tulpa.info also left and entire server where such things were prevalent. Be careful with the chat.

 

Peace.


Sock Cottonwell's

Sketchbook, Journal, and Ask thread.

Peace

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Guest Anonymous

Every time Melian writes on this forum it is a form of channeling or proxy typing. That involves a collaboration between her and I with me interpreting her emotions and intent. I cause some people on this forum to freak out (hence the Mistgod War some weeks back) because I openly admit this involves what I consider a form of method acting/role playing. This is not considered good practice for the creation of a tulpa on this forum, but it is how Melian happened and how she and I work. I disagree that role playing means faking if you are actively channeling the thoughtform. In my opinion that is precisely what many are doing with proxy typing anyway, they are just terrified of the words of "role playing" to such a level they cannot admit they are doing it and that it is a useful tool.

 

For almost eight months I have been fighting against the concept that active day dreaming, role playing or method acting are absolutely disconnected from tulpamancy. I think that is completely false and misleading to pretend it doesn't happen. Such claims confuse new people as more senior people merrily do it left and right with their proxy typing and wonderland adventures. It is possible they are deluding themselves into believing that there is no role playing/method acting as part of the interpretation or channeling. But I believe proxy typing must involve a collaborative exercise with the thoughtform. That requires the host to be involved doesn't it?

 

Role playing should be recognized as an ingredient of proxy typing (channeling) of a thoughthform. The only other alternative is to only recognize full switching or full possession as legitimate tulpa communication.

 

If that happened: 1. Melian will fall entirely silent 2. She and I will leave this forum and never return.

 

EDIT: I anticipate that someone will respond to this post by saying that role playing means that the host is totally making up the tulpa. Well, that would not be what I am talking about. Those would be rare cases of people disrespecting the forum. I am not talking about someone totally faking, as in lying to be a false troll. I mean that role playing as a form of channeling or tapping into your tulpas personality and intent or method acting by actively imagining your tulpa. I think that active imagination (day dreaming) is a big ingredient in making tulpas. I am not a believer that host and tulpa are necessarily totally independent of one another. I think that is probably self delusion on the part of many tulpamancers. A tulpa is part of the host and the host is part of the tulpa.


If it was me I would wait until they were just a bit more developed before letting them talk on here.

 

Then you and Melian would never have spoken to one another and would probably not be friends.

 

Think about it.


It's called "proxying" when your tulpa, unable to possess/switch, tells you what to type for them. Doing this with a tulpa that is not sentient or sapient or can't talk or whatever is basically just role playing what you want your tulpa to be.

 

It is obvious to me, after being on this forum for a long while, that apparent sentience is an elusive thing. It is really up to the host when they think the tulpa has apparent sentience. For individuals with a very vivid imagination, this may occur fairly early in the process. So whether the host is "role playing" or proxy typing is really up to the host to decide isn't it?

 

To me, role playing or method acting, if you are doing it right, is a form of channeling an inner persona or character anyway. So applying this technique to channeling your non-verbal tulpa (whatever that means) is totally legitimate to me. It is an outlet for the tulpa and collaborating with the host. This is something all tulpas do as the develop communication skills with the host anyway.

 

EDIT: It is a difference in how I regard the words "proxy" and "role playing." To me it is foggy and they are pretty much one and the same thing.


EDIT2: What is equally foggy is the difference between active forcing and day dreaming. Everyone has a different idea as to the distinctness of these two. To me, there is definitely an overlap and it is, again, up to the host (and the tulpa) to decide where that line is. In the case of Melian and I, active forcing is day dreaming the Melian Show. It is active imagination and collaboration.


Note: I dunno if I'm using the wrong term, correct me if I am wrong.

 

I've seen some people here channel their Tulpas and allow them to state their thoughts on the forums; I dunno if that's okay for new, young, and developing tulpas, though. I'd assume it's okay, but I've heard younger tulpas are impressionable.

 

Melian would love to talk to your tulpa any time you like. Channel away to your heart't content! I don't think it will hurt the development of your tulpa in the least.

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Actually, I tend to consider "roleplaying" as being when the person in question "becomes" the person they're acting out. You know, as what would happen when a one is acting out a character in an RPG. That's the sort of idea I had.

 

I should probably clarify what my views are on this subject: I do feel that the "tulpa" and the "host" are parts of a whole, but individuals at the same time. It's something I don't feel I fully understand at this point, but it is the answer I've often been given about it when questioning Midori on it, as well as others. As well, I feel this is consistent with the way I tend to do things in system: When I ask Sheryl to make a comment on the thread, while Sheryl is in me, and part of the whole of my being, I'm not Sheryl, and Sheryl is not me. I don't become Sheryl when she speaks, nor do I wonder what she would say when I ask her what she wants to type. The collaboration is simple this: She speaks, I listen, then type. Occasionally I'll correct typos and spelling errors I have, but that is the extent of it, I try to make it as much of her as I can. This is what happens as far as I can perceive, if things are happening below that, I do not know, and it would likely take a good deal of time and patient examination to actually see what goes on beyond that. So instead of endlessly questioning and trying to expose it, I simply trust what is said, while still remaining open to examining if I perceive something about the process I did not see before.

 

With all this said, if I were to say that a being with this nature could not be made through roleplaying or method acting, I feel I would be completely wrong, as it has been reported as a phenomenon already. In fact, character writing resulting in beings like this, soulbonds, etc. were some of the things I really looked in to when I was away from this community for a while. So while I don't think such things can NEVER result in a companion of this sort being formed, I also feel that an important angle of this community is to allow said companion to act and exist independently as much as possible. That is, to have them come on would be to have them act out themselves with as little interference of their creator as possible. So that it is th creation speaking, from their perspective, rather than the host becoming their creation, as if putting on a mask.

 

I think there is another, community wide danger to being too eager to support active and open roleplay in the forum. It's less to do with how scientific is seems (I think the ponies and anime girls would have already scared off many), but the risk that people would stop at simply roleplaying, and leave off actually developing their creation in to more of a person. I've spoken before about the vibe that some people simply use their creations as toys, and it is still something that bothers me when the concept is brought to attention. I don't really like the idea of someone becoming so enamoured with playing out their potential partner, that said partner never really grows to be more than what it is, or worst, the acting was the main attraction, and the "partner" doesn't exist at all. In essence, the person is simply playing and nothing more, and while I'm not a person who's against enjoyment, the idea behind this forum is STILL to actually bring up the sort of imagined companions that are described here, not to actively pretend to do it, and do nothing beyond. This, to me, is one of the big issues, just as being too strict and narrow can harm the community, being too loose and not encouraging users to improve their skills in the practice can cause harm to it, as well.

 

Considering your case, Mistgod, my comments may not completely apply. Yes, you do actively act out Melian at times, but it's also clear that you and her are separate enough that to count and being host and companion, rather than actor and elaborate mask. You've stuck with her for years, and it clear your care for her a lot. This is good, I believe, and if more "roleplayers" were more like that, I would have no complaint. You have that measure of seriousness about what you're doing, and I appreciate that. What I want to avoid is attracting and encouraging people who lack even that level of seriousness, where the entire thing is just a new toy to play with, and nothing more.

 

As for wonderland adventures and such...I actually don't go on those. At least, I haven't been able to, nor have I been as inclined to do so. My girls have actively reminded me and asked me to do it more often when I can. Considering the make up of the mental figures I keep track of, it would seem that I should be more playful with these things, but nope, I take these things pretty seriously. Maybe in some places I am a bit too stiff and should loosen, but I don't want playfulness to overtake my hopes for this practice.

 

Peace.


Sock Cottonwell's

Sketchbook, Journal, and Ask thread.

Peace

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